Deep Color and Extended resolution on normal Blurays

[jmac698]

Deep Color
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=39297
It encodes 12bit data into an 8bit bluray, but probably uses extra space from letterbox movies.

Extended Resolution
http://www.folded-space.com/software_products.html

How it works, basically extra info is put in the black bars space of 2.35:1 movies, which can be reconstructed by a Bluray player.

Kinda silly really, as you could just define a new aspect ratio for Bluray and make anamorphic encodings, using the full 1920x1080 instead of 1920x810.

I can also tell you how it might work: same method as the defunct PalPlus, which uses a quadrature mirror filter. What is means is that, the image is separated in frequency space, and the high frequencies leftover are stored in the spare area. A filter is used to combine the normal (considered low-pass) and extra frequencies. This is probably done only in the luma channel. They didn't have to use greybars, as PalPlus uses black bars and naturally hidden chroma information. The greybars probably have low amplitude data in them.

[kolak]

Interesting- but does it require players with this algorithm?

[nevcairiel]

Yes it requires player support, which makes it yet another proprietary hack which will not see real adoption.

[kolak]

Yes- just add 10bit support to new 4K BD standard :)

http://www.folded-space.com/software_products_encode.html

http://www.folded-space.com/images/FoldedSpace_WhitePaper-v2.pdf

"MFE encoding software is available for purchase. Our software is based on AviSynth scripts, which makes it easily implemented as part of any workflow. " :)

So player without MFE will display "normal" image, player with MFE can take advantage of it, but you need either 4K display or some wide aspect ratio display- correct?

[wonkey_monkey]

Yes it requires player support, which makes it yet another proprietary hack which will not see real adoption.

Couldn't you say that about any new format?

Kinda silly really, as you could just define a new aspect ratio for Bluray and make anamorphic encodings, using the full 1920x1080 instead of 1920x810.

Great. We just got rid of non-square pixels, and now they're coming back! :scared:

As for 10-bit/12-bit - I'd rather see displays and formats with wider gamuts. I won't be happy until I can feel the warmth (and get a tan) from the sunset on my TV :)

[vivan]

Couldn't you say that about any new format?Is Hi10P (or Hi444PP) new enough? :p
HEVC has >8 bits profiles too.

Great. We just got rid of non-square pixels, and now they're coming back! :scared:And what's so bad about them?
At least 2560x1080 TVs would be less useless this way.

[nevcairiel]

Couldn't you say that about any new format?

If the format is pushed by only one company, without public specs or open reference software, sure.
Bastardizing an existing format with a "hack" to include some additional data to presumably make the image better will never see big adoption.

If you want more data on a Blu-ray, run it through the BDA, and get it added to the next version of the Blu-ray spec.

[foxyshadis]

Extended Resolution sounds like a niche's niche. 21:9 is still unproven in the marketplace, and at 4K you're not going to perceive a small sharpness improvement. (Unless we're talking Ben-Hur, filmed at 2.7:1.) You'd only notice at all if you had them side-by-side.

DCE sounds like they grafted SHVC's bit depth scalability onto AVC. (Unless SVC already includes that, and they're just implementing it?)

[jmac698]

Compatibility
Yeah, it's gonna require Bluray player support - I don't think the onboard Java engine is gonna be fast enough to decode it.

Non-square pixels
One of the problems with non-square pixels was there were differing standards and implementations (i.e. DV vs MPG) [2] so you were never quite sure how to decode properly. It's also mostly obsolete now since our devices use square pixels, and just unecessary.

3 Versions
When they talk about storing 3 versions at once, it's like this, the original, the extended res, and a crop version of the extended res.

Benefits
The last (16:9 full res version derived from 2.35:1) is where it will benefit normal HDTV's, because you get the 16:9 version at full resolution. As for the extended res scope version, yep it will take a UHD to see the difference. As for noticing the difference, well, I can, with crop vs anamorphic encodings on DVD. In that case it's about 33% more. It has to be expanded to 854x480 to preserve the full quality. There was a whiny cry for anamorphic encodings when DVD's first came out [1]. I think people just hated the idea of the space being wasted. I used to encode from Bluray into 720x480 anamorphic xvid with 2.35:1 movies and the quality is much better (480 vs 272 pixels verically, 76%).

It's a transitional technology which will disappear, but will help drive a purpose for UHD's TV's, to provide more content for them before the format is fully developed.

Deep Color
There are already deep color Blurays, Sony's 4k mastered discs. The sharpness difference is barely noticable, but on some scenes with certain colors (like green foliage), the color is much more saturated. It uses full range (0-255) chroma. [3] x.v. color [4] Mastered in 4k

References
[1] http://beesbuzz.biz/art/tutorials/dvd-encode.php
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_aspect_ratio#Inconsistency_in_defined_pixel_aspect_ratio_values
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC
[4] http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Total-Recall-Blu-ray/63570/#Review

[wonkey_monkey]

There was a whiny cry for anamorphic encodings when DVD's first came out [1].

I'm still annoyed about The Abyss!

I think people just hated the idea of the space being wasted.

There's also the fact that on a CRT screen (remember them?) scanlines were much less noticeable with an anamorphic picture. I'd expect that the difference in quality would be a little less visible on a modern screen.

[Emulgator]

I'm still annoyed about The Abyss!
Oh how I am with you...
The PAL version is interlaced and flagged as 4:3, so this was presented letterboxed AND pillarboxed on any 16:9 TV !
I couldn't believe it back then, disc is at hand...