low resolution video fullscreen on high resolution monitor

[Lebowsky]

hi people,

I am currently in the process of upgrading my very old computer (P3) to a very new one (i7). This includes upgrading my monitor. I have been using a 19" 4:3 samsung display, which is very nice but starts to feel a bit small.

I bought a nice 27" 16:9 1920x1080 Asus monitor. But I was quite disappointed when I realized a lot of low res material that was playing very nice fullscreen on my 19" at 1280x1024 was looking like cr*p fullscreen on the 27".

Those videos are all music videos that I captured from tv and encoded back then in xvid, usually between 672x368, 576x324 for 16:9 or 576x432 for 4:3, at a bitrate between 1500 and 2500 kbps depending on the content.

Now, I understand why it is not looking quite good on such a big screen, and I admit it totally slipped my mind when doing my choice to go for a 27". So I am definitely going to downsize, but I have two questions, and maybe we can here share our experiences:

- does the screen resolution play any role when watching video fullscreen? e.g. will a low res video look worse on a display with a native resolution of 1920x1080 (or 1920x1200 for a 16:10 screen), than on one with a native resolution of 1600x1900 (or 1680x1050)?
- at what point does a low res video start to look bad? given that I consider such videos look very nice on a 1280x1024 19", how big could I go for a new monitor? 22, 23, 24"? and if the question above applies, should I then stay with 1600/1680 wide?

thanks for your input! :)

[osgZach]

The resolution will probably play some role, because the video has to be upsized to the current resolution of the monitor, after all.

However, the real problem here is that you encoded things at too low a bit rate to begin with. Also if these videos are SD material, then no matter what you do, they are always going to look bad when upsized, especially on a larger screen. I wouldn't downsize a monitor just because my videos looked bad. I would look at re-acquiring my videos in an appropriate resolution. Or just not watch them completely full screen.

There really isn't a magic point where something will start to look bad. It all depends on the quality of the video, and the size of the screen. I can watch quite a lot of SD videos full screen that don't look too bad. It's all about encoding quality and the method you are using to upsize the image during playback (what renderer, what algorithm it is using to upscale, etc)

[Asmodian]

It is not the resolution but the size, at the same size it will look better (though not a lot better) on the higher resolution monitor. A 1920x1080 23" monitor might be what you are looking for. 1600x1200 is also a nice resolution if going 4:3. Note 1600x1200 is actually higher resolution when watching 4:3 videos.

I must admit I find the idea of buying a smaller screen because you have old low quality videos amusing. Do you have room on your desk to plug both monitors into your computer? The new one to do normal large monitor things on and the old one to watch full screen low quality video on? Of course you could also play them in a window and have them the same size they used to be, maybe use a solid black desktop?

Please do not buy a 1680x1050 screen, those should be boycotted until they stop being produced. :p

What are you using to play the video? Have you tried madVR?

[IanB]

Put the big monitor further back, such that the angle subtended at your eye by the screen is the same as your previous monitor.

Also choose good upscale technology in your player. MadVR offers good options.
|---------| Big monitor
\ /
\|-----|/ Small monitor
\ /
\ /
\ /
V
(o) Eye

[Lebowsky]

thanks for the replies! (and nice ascii art :)) what I forgot to mention, and that's a reason I am looking to downsize, is that I tested those videos on a 22" 1680x1050 screen at work, and they were looking good. But I don't really have other test options, hence why I am asking here for experiences with encoded content on various screen sizes.

I was using mpc-hc with the enhanced video renderer. I didn't know about madVR. It couldn't run on my old P3 so I had never used it before and kinda forgotten about it, thanks for bringing it up. I just did a little test, it's indeed better, but it's not enough. But I'm thinking downgrading the size + using madVR should do the trick.

I know those videos aren't up to today's standards, lots of them are even captures from analog cable, but those bitrates and resolution were good back then when we had smaller monitors, and like I said, they're looking pretty good on my 19". That's also the case for non-hd streaming material.

So since I couldn't test on a higher res 22" or a bigger screen, I am looking for experiences at higher res, and maybe smaller sizes than 27". I did like the the 27" at actually, and I'm gonna sell it. I found it too big to work on. And I really disliked the 16:9 AR, so if I can find a 16:10 monitor I might go with that - although it's only a secondary decision factor. So in all cases I am downgrading, and in doing so I might also as well pick up the best possible compromise between size, resolution and playing those old videos :) So the thing is, 22, 23 or 24 - will there be a noticeable difference? As there definitely is one between 22" and 27". And you're saying at a same screen size, I should better go with the highest resolution monitor?

[Asmodian]

Yes, it is the size that causes you to notice the quality not the resolution, more resolution is a good thing even in this case. It sounds like you would prefer a 1920x1200 22" to 24", they are noticeably smaller than a 27" but be prepared to pay more. Setting gamma correctly can help with video artifacts too, if your shadows are too bright it will exaggerate quality issues in your video. What size is "too big" is something only you can answer. Personally an 84" very far away sounds good. ;)

edit: I too prefer 16:10 screens as I like the extra vertical resolution but sadly they are getting rarer and rarer. I am currently using a multi-monitor desktop with a few 16:9 2560x1440 27" screens and one 16:10 2560x1600 30".

[Warperus]

Sometimes when I can't stand artifacts of youtube in full screen I close full screen and watch the same video in small window.

[Lebowsky]

thanks Asmodian!

[hello_hello]

How good/bad video looks on a larger screen depends a lot on viewing distance. The closer you get, the more detail you can see, or in the case of low quality video, the undesirable stuff becomes clearer too. If it was me, rather than buy a smaller monitor, I'd just increase my viewing distance.
My PC is connected to my 51" Plasma. Even the better quality standard definition AVIs look pretty average when sitting at my desk as the TV's only a few feet away, and low quality AVIs etc look simply terrible, but if I sit on the other side of the room to watch TV then even the worst quality video is at least watch-able and good quality SD video looks okay.

Try a different resizer when using MPC-HC. I prefer the Bilinear resizer, especially for low quality/resolution video as it doesn't seem to enhance the nasties as much (it's not as sharp as Bicubic).

I'd disagree with the previous comment regarding having encoded the video at too low a bitrate to begin with, although it depends on the resolution and how hard it is to compress etc, but 1500 to 2500 kbps seems pretty reasonable for the resolutions you were using to me.

[IanB]

One other thought, have you got post processing enabled for your Xvid decoder, 1500 to 2500 was considered pretty okay for the day. Setting the appropriate deblocking and deringing configuration for the clip can make a world of difference especially when up-sizing for close viewing on a large screen. One size does not fit all so a judgement call is required for each clip.

[turbojet]

Debanding, which is being tested in madvr, has a great effect on improving video quality especially for SD to HD. Also Jinc resizing is great if your gpu can handle it. Xvid is notorious for banding, can be confused with blocks on flat surfaces such as walls and faces.

Somewhat unrelated but IanB is there any chance of JincResize in avisynth? I vaguely remember it being a slightly modified lanczos that makes a big impact, I believe this is it http://www.imagemagick.org/discourse-server/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21660

[Lebowsky]

Thanks for all the replies! I'm gonna get a 24" 16:10 then (because I really prefer 16:10 over 16:9 for general work usage), and I'll fiddle with various renderers settings to improve video quality!