Forced Subs for SD DVD

[srfscenar]

Hi all,

A question so I understand how it should be authored.
I have a feature which will have English Audio and French subtitles. The client also wants around 10 English subtitles to be forced where actors speak a weird alien(!) language.

The French subtitles will be visible when the user selects that language and all is OK included the alien dialogue.
What about the English forced? Shall I add them as a different stream and set them to forced? Will that work if the user selects Subtitles OFF from the settings menu?
Or I should program it so when the user selects Subtitles Off to actually load the 2nd stream, English? In that case, what happens if he sets the subs to be off from the remote? And in that case hw will "see" there are 2 set of subtitles.

Thanks!

EDITED: I did some tests and noticed that if I put the English forced as 1st stream and the French as 2nd, it seems to be working.
But, is that the Professional way? That means that forced works on the 1st stream?

Thanks again.

[mp3dom]

How many phisical tracks do you have in your scenario? I mean, the french subs also contains the english subs on the same track or you have two different/separate tracks?
You can have forced subs on more than one track. The selectable track (which forced track should be visible) have value from 0 to 31. For example if you put the value 0 in SPRM2 then you'll see forced subs of track1, value of 1 will shows forced subs of track 2 and so on.

[srfscenar]

Thanks for the answer mp3dom.

The French has ONLY the French translation and does not contain the English ones. So, I HAVE to have 2 separate tracks. One for the French subs and one for the ones I want to be forced (which are English).
Basically, maybe I should set it up so when the user presses the OFF button to just Load the track with the English subs and have them flaged as forced?
I am a bit confused, how can I change the SPRM2 value. Isn't it unchangeable?

I just want to be sure because it's going to be QC'd from a 3rd party and I wanna make sure it will pass.

[Chetwood]

Standalones can override any settings you set on the DVD. Still, your best bet is to mux the forced as first stream and set it to forced. To see what value you need, you can reauthor the disc in DVD Shrink, do a right-click on the title and select Set Default streams and then check the values in PGCEdit. DVD Shrink uses the SETSTN command.

[srfscenar]

Thanks Chetwood.
I think I'll put first the English and set them forced, and second the French.
At least this seems the easier way and it works.

Thank you!

[srfscenar]

One last question please,

If the user turns the subtitles OFF via remote, the FORCED subtitles are not shown
slthough in Scenarist they are flagged as Forced.
Is it normal?

Thanks,

[srfscenar]

I tested it on a standalone and it's working fine.
It was the TMT that had the issue. I think I will trust the standalone.

Thanks.

[srfscenar]

One last question...
Is there anything else I have to do in Scenarist except importing them as Forced and make sure the "Forced" check box is checked?
Maybe a small detail that I might have missed?

Thank you.

[TheSkiller]

Basically, it's not the point of the forced flag to have a whole subtitle track forced.
Ideally you only want the foreign/alien subtitles within that English subtitle track forced but not the rest.

If you force the whole English subtitle track you will find that there's no way to turn them off except switching to French which gives you the French subtitles.
Switching to "OFF" via the remote while the video is playing will display the whole English track with most hardware players (unless only the foreign speech is forced).


There are two different approaches to do what you want and both can be found equally often on commercial DVDs:

1) mark foreign speech as forced (like I've just described)
2) make two subtitle tracks for each language – one with everything, one with the foreign speech only (foreign speech track may be forced, but not required)

[srfscenar]

Thank you.
I have no option other than the second. I have one French track (890 subtitles) and one with ONLY the foreign speech in English (only10 subtitles).
So, I must do 2 subtitle tracks. But if the user turns them off by remote, will the forced be Off too?

[srfscenar]

...and is there anything else I must take care of in Scenarist?
Marking those 10 forced is enough?
Thanks!

[TheSkiller]

Ah, that clarifies things.
Yes, you can (and should) force the entire English track then because there's nothing but foreign speech in it.

But if the user turns them off by remote, will the forced be Off too?No, in that case the first track (English) with those 10 foreign forced subs will display.


If you want to push it further, you can go ahead and force those 10 corresponding French subtitles (but not the rest of the French subtitles) as well.

Switching to OFF while playing will display either the English forced subtitles or the French forced ones (if available) depending on how the standalone player handles this matter. Most players will revert to the first track (English here) regardless of the user preference setting, some will select based on this setting.

Anyway, if you have a subtitle menu you shouldn't forget to assign it's OFF button to something that fits your given subtitle configuration (i.e. switch to English Off or French Off to display only the forced subtitles).