Terrible Letterboxing issue in Scenarist SD

[neil wilkes]

I have just found out there is a shoicker of a bug in Scenarist SD, where letterboxed widescreen menus have problems with the SPHL.
It does not work - the highlights are not displayed correctly and this (according to Sonic Care) also carries through to the final disc image - it is not just a simulator error.

Is there a workaround for this at all?
Menus are correctly formatted as TIF files, with separate SPHL images for both regular & letterbox use.

Desperate for an answer as according to Sonic Care "avoiding widescreen" is the only answer.

[mp3dom]

Are you referring to the button highlights that in letterbox mode takes the widescreen subpictures or no subpicture at all (so the highlights are all wrong)?
In that case, it's a well known problem and I'm a bit 'shocked' about the Sonic Care answer (avoid widescreen?! O_O)
There are 2 workarounds (depending by your Scenarist version).
One is to create 2 empty subtitle tracks, set them for letterbox and widescreen and only at the end drop the subpictures (the standard method is to drop the subpicture in the clip and let Scenarist create the subpictures track).
The other way is to click on the menu PGC, click on "Subpicture attribute" and correctly set the track for Ws and Lb. If your menu have wrong highlights, probably these fields have the wrong order, so just set them correctly and all should work.

[neil wilkes]

Thanks for this - it has been most frustrating with Sonic Care.
They are telling me this carries through to the disc image and to use 4:3, but I am also getting information that it is only a simulator bug - so the next test will be to compile just the menu system & see what happens in the real world. I have to confess that Sonic Care seems to be an expensive waste of money - this is the exact response:
There is an issue on some systems where the whichever mode you last edited the menu in remains fine but the highlight area for the other mode remains the same as the one last edited. This means that the highlight area as defined by the area last logged is now shared by the two even though the graphics and button spaces are OK. Is this what you're seeing? It's a logged bug and we're trying to get some attention to it. It's unfortunately a problem that goes through to the final disk image. There is no workaround except making the menus 4:3.


Getting back On Thread - I am running version 3.4.3 latest build.
Originally I used separate TIFF files for background & each button SPHL as PSD import has never worked properly for me on either XP or Windows 7 (that is another thing though).
Usual method is to create the menu track with the background, and then drop in the regular W SPHL layer and after that I add the Letterboxed SPHL separately, making sure that the W and L are correctly set in the track editor.
I had not heard of the method you talk about here and will certainly give it a try - much appreciated. I will also check the PGC but am pretty certain it works.

OTOH, our authoring consultant (a fancy title for a "Phone-A-Friend") has just told me that it is impossible to get both Ws & Lb simulating correctly at the same time but if all is well in Ws (it is) and switching to Lb messes up (it does) then by moving a button 1 pixel in Lb will make it work but will then mess up Ws. He also says that despite what Sonic are telling me it does *not* carry through to the disc image.

I will give this a try, and check - thanks again.

[mp3dom]

Version 3.4.3 to me is a real mess. It screw the way it calculate the layer break and the size you can see in Sort track EVEN if you completely mux all the tracks. I'm still using 3.31.11C. Going in topic, avoid the simulator... it's not trustworthy. Burn a dvd and test on a standalone in both Ws and Lb mode. Trust me that IF Scenarist screw the subpicture, then you'll have that problem also on replicated discs. If you want to test on a PC, the only player I found to be very credible is the old Sonic CinePlayer 2.01 which can work in both Ws and Lb and if the subpictures are wrong, you'll see it.
The "1 pixel movement" makes sense only to 'fix' the way you'll see it in the simulator (not while simulating, but when you 'draw' the buttons). It's a graphical issue in that case. It does not carry through the disc image IF (and only IF) the subpictures are still setup correctly in the "Subpicture attribute" field.
The "deeper/worst bug" (what the Sonic Care is referring to) is not the graphical issue in the simulator window, but the fact that, even if you set the subpictures correctly, Scenarist link both mode (Ws and Lb) to the *same* subpicture. So the 'graphical issue' become a real problem even in the final image.

[neil wilkes]

Ah - that all makes a lot more sense now.
I tested by compiling the menu system, and burning to an RW disc & checking on a physical player with both full WS and a 4:3 in LB - and both worked fine.
I always import separate images for WS and LB SPHL images - I trust no scaling, and would rather do it myself (when I am doing a Video_TS for a DVD-A/V I kinda have to, because DVD-Audio Creator only works with separate files and I have to also say that PSD import in Scenarist 3.4.3 simply does not work at all here on XP or Windows 7.

I think I will have a look at 3.31.11C - although I am far from certain it will install on Windows 7. Next stop - the Sonic manuals so I can see what was fixed/changed between that & my installation.
Also - what about activation? I am pretty certain I have all my old activation codes still but cannot remember what the original version I bought was - will earlier versions run on a newer activation code?
The other big problem is of course that there are no alternatives. DVD-Lab is uncertified & has some alarming issues, the rest are all abstraction layer tools which are useless for me.

Thanks in advance - this has been very helpful.

[mp3dom]

3.31.11C works on Win7 without problems (it should be version 3.3.2, dated 2011). I'm using it on Win7 too.
The subpicture problem doesn't depend on subpicture scaling. It's the way Scenarist link to the tracks that sometimes fails. Looking at Subpicture attribute is the quickest/easiest way to check.

[neil wilkes]

Again, much appreciated.
I've downloaded this version - and wondering a few things at this point:
1 - What fixes in 3.4.x were created by the initial 3.4 version?
2 - What are the definite (if any) problems with 3.3.2?
3 - Can both exist simultaneously, albeit in alternative folders?
I am pretty certain I have activation codes for this version - and one option might be to install 3.4.3 on one system & 3.3.2 on the older XP setup.

Many Thanks - it is one buggy piece of software!

[mp3dom]

As far as I know (and for the features I'm using), there are no major problems with 3.3.2, apart the classical problems that every Scenarist version have. At least 3.3.2 is very stable to me, and doesn't have big issues like elder or newer versions. The 3.3.x projects can't be exchanged with 3.4.x, so you always should export as SCP and re-import into the newer/older version. Not an affordable solution if you need to switch back and forth very much between the two versions.

[srfscenar]

Hi mp3dom,

do you think that by having 2 different subpictures, one for LB and one for WS instead of letting Scenarist resize one subpic, will do the trick?
At least for me (I always use 2 different subpics) I never had any issues.

That Cineplayer, where can I find it? I tried Rovi's download section and it does not exist (!)

And one last, can you point out some of the major bugs Scenarist has?

Thanks!!!