Need help with Proper Inverse Telecine for Anime

[8-BaLL]

Hey guys, I have a NTSC DVD of an Anime that I want to encode. It is @ 29,97fps.

Every combination of tff() and tdecimate() that Ive tried so far didnt help get rid of all the interlaced frames or produced some progressive half-transitined frames.

here I uploaded a small example file without sound, a short clip.


[to be replaced]


I hope tsmuxer didnt screw up the pulldown.

[Guest]

I want to provide the clip so maybe one of you experts will look into it. What do you mean by provide the clip, and who will you provide it to?

[8-BaLL]

lmao I meant I will upload a short clip, like 2-3 minutes, so someone can look into it and help me with the correct inverse telecine.

[Guest]

Oh good, that's what I was hoping you meant. I will have a look at your sample right now.

[Guest]

Please edit your post to give us a different sample. It should be about half as big and family friendly. Thanks.

There is irregular soft pulldown so for sure you will need to honor pulldown. But I will tell you more when you provide a new sample.

[manono]

I hope tsmuxer didnt screw up the pulldown.
TSMuxer? You don't know how to cut a VOB or, even better, extract the M2V from the VOB? And 2-3 minutes is way way more than needed, as neuron2 mentioned.

[8-BaLL]

It is a M2V file ;) I didnt find a proper tool that cuts m2v without reencoding it. Thus muxed it with tsmuxer and cut it with tsmuxer.. Tsmuxer didnt reencode the file, I hope. It couldve changed something with the pulldown though, which I also hope it didnt.

I will upload another short clip, fact is, its not a common pulldown. I couldnt find a script that gets rid of all interlaced frames or at least the some progressive frames have a half information, a mix of previous fullframe and frame after..

[Guest]

I didnt find a proper tool that cuts m2v without reencoding it. Use DGIndex. Open the M2V, set a project range, and then do 'Save project and demux video'.

Also, why is your source an M2V? Where did it come from?

[8-BaLL]

It came from dvd ofcourse, where else? ;) I demuxed the streams with DVDdecrypter, it has an option to demux the streams from the DVD.

It then gives u all separate ac3 adio lines and the video as .m2v. It also demuxes Chapters from dvd and subtitles.

if I demux the vob files with dgindex- what type of files does it give? MPEG?

[Guest]

Read the user manual. It's all explained there.

[8-BaLL]

Hey guys,

I made a shorter example and uploaded it -> 55MB. I hope u can give me some tipps how to get rid of the pulldown...


http://netload.in/dateiBMIA54b4iK/example.demuxed.m2v.htm

[Guest]

Make project with honor pulldown. Then use SRestore() to do unblending.

Maybe someone else will be willing to help more, but personally I stay as far away as possible from blended-fields garbage.

[8-BaLL]

Make project with honor pulldown. Then use SRestore() to do unblending.

Maybe someone else will be willing to help more, but personally I stay as far away as possible from blended-fields garbage.

Thanks it did help some, unfortunately there are still interlaced frames remained, f. e. frame 475 and the whole scene around it.

Also before Srestore() there are 2879 frames and after Srestore there are 1201. Thats less than half the frames. From 29 to 24 should be more frames left I assume?

Can you now put the thread in the normal section pls? It doesnt seem like many ppl traffic in the newbie section...

[manono]

Also before Srestore() there are 2879 frames and after Srestore there are 1201. Thats less than half the frames. From 29 to 24 should be more frames left I assume
That's because you didn't read the doc and follow the directions:
Usage
--------
code examples:

bobbed (or progressive) source

srestore()
You have to bob the source before using Srestore on it. So, one way is:

Yadif(Mode=1)#or a better bobber like QTGMC
SRestore(Frate=23.976)
It doesnt seem like many ppl traffic in the newbie section...
There's more than enough to help you on your way.
I hope u can give me some tipps how to get rid of the pulldown...
There was never any pulldown applied. And your sample was next to useless as almost all of it was either static or nearly so. The next time someone asks for a sample please provide one with steady movement.

[8-BaLL]

Thanks alot I will try it out with QTGMC.

It is the way how the anime is most of the time, a mix between still scenes and then some moving. I'll upload another example with more movement if the SRestore() doesnt work.

Thanks.

Edit: @manono- wow it really seems to work, no more interlaced frames and no more progressive mix-frames.

If it wasnt pulldown, what method exactly was used here? Thanks again a ton.

Its weird- I used a preset on QTGMC (very slow) and now it shows some mix images again in between... By changing back to QTGMC() they progressive mix images still remain. Its very frustrating.

Looks like QTGMC + SRestore (23.976) wasnt the total solution though... I still get there a couple of mixed images.

[8-BaLL]

No unfortunately its not a good solution for this anime.

http://t.imgbox.com/acmev8dp.jpg (http://imgbox.com/acmev8dp) http://t.imgbox.com/acy1mb0N.jpg (http://imgbox.com/acy1mb0N)

Heres frame 921 and 922


QTGMC(preset="very slow")
SRestore(Frate=23.976)


Also on frame 922 the mouth of the woman has double outlines..

[manono]

The unblenders aren't perfect, particularly at scene changes. You can thank the fly-by-night company that released this garbage for it being field-blended in the first place. Anyway, I don't see what you see in frame 921. You were moving around in the timeline and when you do that Srestore gets 'confused'. Sort of 'sneak' up on it. Move the VDub slider to a place before 921 and then advance to it. Or just encode the whole thing without doing anything else after opening it. Here's what I see for frame 921:

[8-BaLL]

Ok thank you, I think I got it now. SRestore does get confused indeed.

The source does seem to have very stupid field-blending. So annoying.

does your frame 916 look like this?

http://t.imgbox.com/adlB9uPS.jpg (http://imgbox.com/adlB9uPS)

Those are very unsatisfying results, but its the dvd mastering company to blame.

Would manual IVTC help here?

[manono]

Yes, I see the same. As I said, sometimes the scene changes are problematic. There are two ways to handle this sort of thing, if you feel the need. One would be to go through the whole thing manually and FreezeFrame all the blended frames with a good one before or afterwards. For example, with that frame 916:

FreezeFrame(916,917,917)

which replaces 916 with the better 917.

The other is to dupe all frames on both sides of a scene change:

A=Last
prev = A.selectevery(1,-1)
next = A.selectevery(1,1)
SCclean = A.SCSelect(next,prev,A,dfactor=2.0) # 2.0 ~ 5.0

SCclean

It needs an additional filter, RemoveDirt. It's automatic, but dupes all the good frames as well as the blended ones on either side of the scene change. With anime this isn't so much of a problem, because of all the duplicate frames to begin with.

[8-BaLL]

Thank you manono. Doing it manual is just insane :) I could spend days with it replacing blended frames. I think its not worth the effort.

The second method however distorts movemet in some scenes. I guess Ill have to accept the blended frames.

One more thing though, on another anime it looks like it has native 12fps. Should I use SRestore(12) or SRestore(11.988)? It looked slightly better with 11.988, well it appeared to have less blended frames. :)

THat cartoon is weird too, it has interlaced duplicates of every progressive frame. And it also has some field-blended frames which arent duplicates of anything.

It look to be some sort of pulldown 12 fps anime to 25fps pal.

[manono]

One more thing though, on another anime it looks like it has native 12fps.
The whole thing? Are you sure? Often large chunks are drawn to 12fps, but not the whole thing. Anyway, to answer your question, if it's a choice between 12fps and 11.988fps, I'd go with 11.988.

Yes, SRestore works best with the exact framerate of the source.

[8-BaLL]

Looks like its not the whole thing, but only chunks as you said.

In that case its better to keep double frames and just encode as it is on DVD?

I cant tell if its variable frame rate. DGindex says its 25 frames, but when I check closer, some scenes are 12 frame chunks with doubles. Other scenes have no doubles, every frame is unique.

I guess its best to leave it as it is?

Thanks.

[manono]

In that case its better to keep double frames and just encode as it is on DVD?
Unless you want to do a VFR encode, yes. Or, if it's PAL, and if it is anime originally meant for NTSC (and it's not blended or converted to PAL by some other method besides speed-up), slow it down to 24fps which will also mean slowing the audio.

[8-BaLL]

Well its is PAL and was meant for NTSC. But from the experience it is better to let the audio untouched and adjust the framerate, because the audio pitch will get even worse than it is with PAL @ speedup with higher pitch.

Do you know how I can reduce a yellow tone. The cartoon has yellow oversaturation, the green colors look yellowish, so do blue colors as well. Id want to reduce yellow saturation a little bit.

[manono]

Well its is PAL and was meant for NTSC. But from the experience it is better to let the audio untouched and adjust the framerate, because the audio pitch will get even worse than it is with PAL @ speedup with higher pitch.

My experience is different and I always slow PAL sources to film speed at the same time slowing the audio, which corrects the pitch.

Do you know how I can reduce a yellow tone.

If it works, the easiest way is with SmoothAdjust:

SmoothTweak(Hue1=10)#shifts it towards blue, adjust the strength

If that doesn't work then you'll have to convert to RGB and use something like ChannelMixer or RGBAdjust.