Having a problem with with bought BD dics after backing up dics

[tinner45]

:confused:I have bought two different BD movies and after copy with BD-RB the dics I bought will not play on my BD player but plays on my computor. Has anyone else have the same problem?

[Ghitulescu]

:confused:I have bought two different BD movies and after copy with BD-RB the discs I bought will not play on my BD player but plays on my computer. Has anyone else have the same problem?

Did you use the CUT/PASTE command instead of COPY/PASTE? :)

If you want to avoid jokes or irrelevant answers please provide more informations, like what actually means will not play....

[tinner45]

No need for stupid jokes. I bought Taken 2 BR at wal mart. I thought you would understand BD-RB. I'll try to do better. I ripped taken 2 with DVDfab. Then encoded and shrunk it with jdobbs BD-RB (Blu-ray - Rebuilder). I burnt it with Imgburn. The copy plays great in my BR player. But the one I bought will not play in my BR player. It will play on my computor. I'm not a newbie. Has anyone had thi problem?

[Ghitulescu]

I would have expected from a member since 2006 to explain better his problems.
This is the reason you have no answers.
Please share with us how did you notice it won't play....

[tinner45]

I put the disc, that I bought, into my Blu-ray stand alone Player. It said on the TV screen that the player could not play the disc.



Born In and raised in the good USA

[tinner45]

I think I understand that you don't know what play means. The movies doesn't show on the TV screen.





And fought for the USA in Viet Nam

[rik1138]

Is the firmware up-to-date on your player? AACS keys expire every 12-18 months, so if you haven't updated the firmware in that long, any new discs made won't work on it...

Your player might be starting to die, and having trouble with some discs... Do any of your older discs have problems at all? If it's just the two new ones, I'd look for a firmware update. (By ripping the disc, you are removing the AACS encryption, thus the out-of-date firmware would no longer matter...)

[setarip_old]

@tinner45 (Thanks for your efforts in Nam! )

If your backup copies play, just store the originals and play the copies. Afterall, that's the purpose of making backup copies ;>}


BTW, Rik1138 says: If it's just the two new ones, I'd look for a firmware update.I'd avoid firmware updates for your standalone player like the plague. You may unwittingly introduce Verance/"Cinavia" protection to your system!

[rik1138]

I'd avoid firmware updates for your standalone player like the plague. You may unwittingly introduce Verance/"Cinavia" protection to your system!

Yeah, that's a risk if you are concerned about Cinavia... The only problem is, as I mentioned, your player will stop playing new store-bought discs after 12-18 months if you don't update them...

I bought a second PS3 to handle the problem (one on a hacked Cinavia free firmware, the other I keep updated). Needed two for two different TV setups anyway, so it worked out. :D But if you only have one player, and want to continue watching discs you buy (without having to rip them first), you really have no choice.

[Ghitulescu]

IPlease share with us how did you notice it won't play....
I put the disc, that I bought, into my Blu-ray stand alone Player. It said on the TV screen that the player could not play the disc.
I think I understand that you don't know what play means. The movies doesn't show on the TV screen.
I know what play means. What I don't know is what doesn't play means. It starts from not plugged into the mains socket up to placing the disc upside down.
I have bought two different BD movies and after copy with BD-RB the dics I bought will not play on my BD player
Just for curiosity: did the discs played before or you just assumed they did?
Is the firmware up-to-date on your player? AACS keys expire every 12-18 months, so if you haven't updated the firmware in that long, any new discs made won't work on it...
Mine was bought in 2007 or 2008 and still plays everything I buy. I believe the keys updates are only valid for BD-drives (for computers).

[rik1138]

Mine was bought in 2007 or 2008 and still plays everything I buy. I believe the keys updates are only valid for BD-drives (for computers).

Considering that it's not physically possible for a non-updated player from 2008 to decrypt a disc manufactured today if it's still running the original firmware, I'd love to know what model it is and where you got it (and what firmware it's currently running)...

We have 17 different Blu-ray players (and 8 PS3s) here at work, I have 3 Blu-ray players at home and my friend has two as well... Every single one stops playing new discs after about 18 months (I'm real lazy about updating them, so I don't do it until the player suddenly tells me I have to on a new disc...). I've never used a blu-ray player in a computer without AnyDVD, so I have no idea how that's handled (but I believe the keys are part of the software players? Can really old versions of Power DVD (like older than 2 or 3 years) play Blu-ray discs on HDCP compliant computers without something like AnyDVD? I have no idea on that end...)

In order to decrypt AACS, the player needs the decryption key. The organization that handles AACS changes that key every 18(ish) months (sooner if they suspect a key is compromised). That's the whole point of the encryption system that can be completely updated and changed if it's hacked. Something they learned from DVD and DeCSS... They can even make it so that a specific manufacturer or model will no longer ever work (on new discs) if it's discovered that the player itself has a vulnerability that allows hackers to get the keys from the player. That's why software like AnyDVD won't work on new discs without updates from the company (which it does automatically by talking to SlySoft's servers when it's active...) Encryption keys are different for every disc made, and the decryption keys change periodically, so the device doing the decryption needs to be updated.

I suppose it's possible that some players that are constantly connected to the internet (mine never are) could just download a new key really quick without having to update the entire firmware... I wish the PS3 would do that, but it requires a full firmware update (which is what any non-connected player will ask for- full firmware). There's a lot of people with hacked firmwares on their PS3 (firmware 3.55 I think is the highest that's been hacked), NONE of them can play store-bought Blu-rays manufactured today (i.e., a new title that comes out now, not new discs that have been in stores for a while). That's why I have two PS3s, my hacked 3.55 for everything except new store-bought discs, and another for those... That wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't for Cinavia... :cool:

[Ghitulescu]

Mine is a Pioneer BDP-51FD, and still has the original firmware, I think 1.17. For the eventuality we both knew might happen, I downloaded the consecutive firmwares and kept them safe. It was bought many years ago, and it's slow like hell, but never refused a disc. And I bought it intentionally without LAN.
BTW, I am in Germany. And I never ever heard any of my colleagues complaining about upgrading a firmware, considering that most of them are computer illiterates (so they would have asked me to do this favour).

[rik1138]

To be honest, I'm surprised you simply haven't had issues with modern Java-based discs playing at all... :) Or do a lot of German Blu-rays still just use HDMV?

I looked into the AACS thing a little more, and there is some backwards compatibility that can be built into it. When a new disc is manufactured, it can be encrypted with several different processing keys, any of which can decrypt the movie. These keys can be made to work with all versions, or just certain versions forward. This seems to be more widely enforced in the US than in Germany if your player will play everything. Do you get US discs at all? I'd be curious to see if a newer US title from Disney or Sony would work in it... Those are the titles that seems to consistently require players to be up-to-date. And, of course, the PS3 is the most affected player. (I wonder of my 3.55 PS3 would play a new German title...). So I guess it's more that it's _possible_ that your player won't be able to play a newer movie if they chose to do that. The replicators in the Germany (or discs sold in Germany) might have some requirement of being able to play on any player marked 'Blu-ray' regardless of software version, so that may be restricting what AACS has the power to do if they want to sell movies there... (Hell, that could be the case for any country outside the US...)

BTW, does that player support DTS-HD MA audio at all? That support seems to have been added much later on down the firmware chain, seems that would be worth at least a little firmware update. :) (And, as long as Cinavia isn't added to the firmware, it might work a lot faster on some of the newer ones... :) )

[dvdboy]

To be honest, I'm surprised you simply haven't had issues with modern Java-based discs playing at all... :) Or do a lot of German Blu-rays still just use HDMV?

Hi Rik,

Certainly in the UK the majority of discs are HDMV, so I would wager that it's the same in Germany, and across most of Europe.

I think there was very little traction for something like Sofatronic Kaleidoscope (I know Eyeframe in the UK bought a copy), and a few small authoring houses probably went with DoStudio, but as a whole everyone was / is doing plain HDMV authoring - there's just not the money and resources to work in BD-J outside 'Hollywood'.

Would be interested to be proved wrong though!

[RickB]

I have three blu ray players. Two Sony and one LG. Never updated any firmware and they appear to play all disks even new ones

[Ghitulescu]

To be honest, I'm surprised you simply haven't had issues with modern Java-based discs playing at all... :) Or do a lot of German Blu-rays still just use HDMV?
It plays java-based discs like any other newer player, except that is so sloooow in loading java.
I looked into the AACS thing a little more, and there is some backwards compatibility that can be built into it. When a new disc is manufactured, it can be encrypted with several different processing keys, any of which can decrypt the movie. These keys can be made to work with all versions, or just certain versions forward. This seems to be more widely enforced in the US than in Germany if your player will play everything.
It seems so. From what I heard, even in the DVD realm, the US is more disadvantaged compared to Germany (I never met e German made DVD with non-skippable trailers as I heard it's the case in the US).
Do you get US discs at all? I'd be curious to see if a newer US title from Disney or Sony would work in it... Those are the titles that seems to consistently require players to be up-to-date.
I have Sony and Disney, they work.
And, of course, the PS3 is the most affected player. (I wonder of my 3.55 PS3 would play a new German title...). So I guess it's more that it's _possible_ that your player won't be able to play a newer movie if they chose to do that. The replicators in the Germany (or discs sold in Germany) might have some requirement of being able to play on any player marked 'Blu-ray' regardless of software version, so that may be restricting what AACS has the power to do if they want to sell movies there... (Hell, that could be the case for any country outside the US...)
I don't own a PS3.
I believe that high end gear is somehow excepted from some rules: imagine that "some boys with money" would synchronously find that their gear in which they pumped lots of money will not work because of whatever technicality. I think they hardly understand what's happening from the technical point of view, what they notice is that their expensive toy doesn't do what it was supposed to do, but I know for sure they will call "someone" and "make him understand" that this won't happen again. Imagine this will happen on a Ferrari that will refuse to do whatever something ...
BTW, does that player support DTS-HD MA audio at all? That support seems to have been added much later on down the firmware chain, seems that would be worth at least a little firmware update. :) (And, as long as Cinavia isn't added to the firmware, it might work a lot faster on some of the newer ones... :) )
At its current version not. But I don't care, as my AVR does it. Also I do not use PiP so I don't need in-device-decoding. And indeed, the possibility of cinavia and the loose of AVCHD-playback capacity made me keep the firmware as it originally was.

[rik1138]

It plays java-based discs like any other newer player, except that is so sloooow in loading java.


I just meant because of the Java bugs in the firmware/on discs... There's some discs that won't even play on a PS3 with older firmwares because the Java code crashes the player (and we've dealt with case-by-case issues on a few other models as well). Without a firmware update, it would never play properly (in rare cases, the disc actually has to be replaced with an updated one, like Sunshine). But you'd have to have one of the affected titles to notice, and there probably really aren't that many of them.

But I'm not sure if all players had Java problems, and it sounds like you don't play with the advanced features of the format at all, which is where the problems usually crop up (PIP playback, interactive movie playback, 'games' that they try to include on the discs, stuff like that. :rolleyes: )

Anyone in the US have a player that's never been updated (or hasn't been in 2+ years at least) that still plays the newest discs released in stores? It might be optional for the manufacturers to support this 'feature', and so pretty much only Sony would be doing it. :rolleyes: Their way of forcing you to update your player so they can cram in other crap as well (not just Cinavia). (Although I know we have a Pioneer that ran into the problem a while back...) I've seen it on 2 or 3 models when we don't keep them up to date which made me think it was a required 'feature' of all players.

[Ghitulescu]

II've seen it on 2 or 3 models when we don't keep them up to date which made me think it was a required 'feature' of all players.

From what I know it is required for computer drives only. The standalones are considered to be safe so here I believe it's optional. However, when the optical drive of a standalone is changed, the device must be recoded to the new drive.

[rik1138]

From what I know it is required for computer drives only. The standalones are considered to be safe so here I believe it's optional. However, when the optical drive of a standalone is changed, the device must be recoded to the new drive.

I'm not sure if it's required for computer drives or not (never had an HDCP compliant computer setup) but the spec was written for all Blu-ray movie playback in general (and blu-ray computer drive firmwares aren't updated that frequently. The drive I'm using hasn't had a new firmware released in nearly 2 years, and before that the gap was 3 years. And the one 2 years ago was just to add compatibility for 6x BD-R media. Firmware would have to be updated at least every 18 months to keep up with new AACS encryption keys.)...

The only players I've ever actually seen this happen to are every PS3 released in the US (Well, the 14 I have access to at least, and everyone I know that has a hacked PS3 on firmware 3.55), 4 different other Sony set-top boxes (Sony always puts this crap in their players), one Toshiba and one Panasonic. All of these are set-top boxes (US models), and none of them have had any repair work or anything. I know, in the US at least, Sony puts every damn protection possible in all of their players. They are the only ones I know if that won't play a BD-R burned from a Scenarist layout that's flagged for encryption (it's not encrypted yet, but it's set up for the replicator to do that. Sony players see the flag, don't see the actual encryption, and the video won't play). Every other player plays these discs just fine...

I also work for an annual Anime convention that only uses their gear one weekend out of the year, and every year we have issues with the players not playing brand-new blu-ray discs the studios send us because none of the players have updated firmware since they've been in storage for a year (mostly PS3s). I always have to make sure I have a USB stick with the latest firmware on me during setup to get them all updated... It's definitely an issue here in the US, and definitely with Sony players (and with at least some players from other major manufacturers). But it's easy enough to test, just don't update your player for about 2 years, and see if it will play the latest movies that are being released...

There's different issues with replacing drives in the PS3 (not sure about other boxes, never tried it) that can require re-marrying of the drive controller board with the PS3 motherboard, but that has nothing to do with the AACS encryption on Blu-ray (at least, specifically), I think it's to prevent people using hacked drives in the PS3 to decrypt games...

[Ghitulescu]

I said nothing about PS3. I actually do not regard the PS3 as a BD-player, anyway not more than a PC with PowerDVD BD on it. Judging the BD world according to the PS3 model is defective.
Concerning the replacement of optical drive I was talking about standalones, like Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic, Sharp and the rest. Again not about PS3.

[rik1138]

I said nothing about PS3. I actually do not regard the PS3 as a BD-player, anyway not more than a PC with PowerDVD BD on it. Judging the BD world according to the PS3 model is defective.
Concerning the replacement of optical drive I was talking about standalones, like Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic, Sharp and the rest. Again not about PS3.

Well, the studios would disagree... :cool: The PS3 is the highest selling single model of Blu-ray player on the market, and is the single most important benchmark player the studios use for making their movie discs. (And is the only player I ever recommend people buying myself.) If something _doesn't_ work on a blu-ray movie in the PS3, it gets fixed. If it works on the PS3, but not on some other models, then _maybe_ it gets fixed... Usually depends on how many other models are affected.

And _I_ wasn't just talking about the PS3 either (that's just the most popular player, so it has the most information and news out there), but if you read everything I wrote you would see that not only is the single most popular player affected by this, but so are 4 other normal Sony set-top players, and at least one Toshiba and one Pioneer. I'd venture to say that MOST Sony Blu-ray players are affected as they seem to put all the protections possible in every model, but I can only speak for 4 different models I have access to.

And I've never really read much about anyone replacing an optical drive on any set-top box other than the PS3... I'm sure people do it, but the PS3 is the only one I've seen a lots of information about how to do it with (any other player is likely to be cheaper to just replace completely when the drive fails)... And that's also probably because I only have PS3s, so I haven't searched for repair tips on other players...

Point being that the AACS keys expiring problem is confirmed to exist on 6 different models of what you consider blu-ray players (4 Sony, a Toshiba and a Pioneer), not just computer drives. In addition to those, the PS3 is affected (the most popular blu-ray player on the market, and the benchmark player used by all the Hollywood studios that actually make the discs we are discussing).

As I don't know what player the OP has, I'm providing information based on the most popular players and some of the most popular brands...

There's a reason why, out of 25 blu-ray players we have here, 8 of them are PS3s, a none of the others we have more than 1 of...

[Ghitulescu]

Well, the studios would disagree...
Probably, since Sony has one :)
I'm sure people do it
No, they can't do it, that is exactly the point I made - the standalones are safe. A device that allows anyone to make modifications touching security items is no longer secure. So one cannot change the optical drive in a standalone, even with an identical unit from another identical device, without some service tools.

[rik1138]

Probably, since Sony has one :)

Funnily enough, that's about the one studio I don't do work for... :) I think Sony pretty much does all their own Blu-ray work.
But all the others swear by the PS3 because of it's performance and popularity. If the PS3 excited people about as much as the PSP-GO, I doubt the studios would care much about it... :cool:

No, they can't do it, that is exactly the point I made - the standalones are safe. A device that allows anyone to make modifications touching security items is no longer secure. So one cannot change the optical drive in a standalone, even with an identical unit from another identical device, without some service tools.

Have people actually tried (much)? I just figured no one cares since BD players are so cheap it's just better/easier/cheaper to buy a new one (unless you have a really expensive one, then you'd send it back to manufacturer for repair)... We just throw them away when they die (free lasers for me! :cool: ). But that would only affect replacing the entire drive, you can still replace the optical assy itself with no problem (which is usually what fails in the drive), assuming you can find a replacement (the motor and/or the laser itself) (which is what most people do with a PS3- you don't want to replace the controller card as that would require some extra hacking, essentially with the 'service tools' you reference above that have been leaked/reverse engineered).

I can't even find reference to people trying to replace a drive in a setop box (just via a quick search though)... You'd have to have a source for a replacement drive, and if the only option is to remove it from a similar model, you might as well just buy a new player...

The PS3 drive is not a 'computer drive', it won't work in a computer, and it won't work in ANY other PS3 without some hacking. It's just as secure from the manufacturer as any other player, but since it's (1) a gaming machine (popular with hacking) and (2) the most popular Blu-ray player out there, it's subjected to a lot more hacking attempts than the average player. Most of that has to do with game piracy I'm sure, but it has it's benefits for blu-ray use as well. No body wants to buy a new PS3 when a readily available $25 part can fix it (assuming failure of the optical assy, that is..). And the part is readily available because there are _so many_ PS3s out there...