Archiving Anime DVD - IVTC, but no compression

[Shike]

Greetings,

I'm hoping to backup my anime DVD collection, but I'm needing some help. First and foremost, I want the highest quality and don't care about compressing the DVD's at all. However, I still need to processes the majority of them since they're series which would require IVTC. I would also like to straight dump the audio if it's significantly faster than encoding to FLAC for example.

Any help is finding a solution that will help accomplish this is greatly appreciated.

[manono]

You can't IVTC without decompressing. You could make them lossless but still compressed (using Lagarith or HuffYUV, for example) but the file sizes will balloon hugely. Any filtering requires decompressing followed by recompression.

[Shike]

You can't IVTC without decompressing. You could make them lossless but still compressed (using Lagarith or HuffYUV, for example) but the file sizes will balloon hugely. Any filtering requires decompressing followed by recompression.

That's a shame, what would offer the good quality then?

[paradoxical]

Best quality for what? Recompressing? x264.

[Shike]

Best quality for what? Recompressing? x264.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Recompressing and IVTC. I know there's ways of going about it with AviSynth, but most of the tutorials are outdated by years so I'd like to know what's changed on the IVTC processing front - whether I still need to manually analyze fields, whether there's scripts already out there that are considered ideal, etc.

Sorry to be so troublesome. :o

[paradoxical]

Either use tfm/tdecimate or telecide/decimate or if you want something fancier use the AnimeITVC script.

[ChiDragon]

I'm hoping to backup my anime DVD collection, but I'm needing some help. First and foremost, I want the highest quality and don't care about compressing the DVD's at all. However, I still need to processes the majority of them since they're series which would require IVTC.

Why? Save tons of processing time by ripping to VOB... and play back the same way you would the original DVD.

[paradoxical]

Because he wants to IVTC those DVDs that need it. Presumably so he has far more control over the final result than whatever IVTC/deinterlacing algorithm the player/renderer might use. Even MadVR's IVTC (which is pretty nice) leaves far more combing and bad matches behind than if I'm using tfm or telecide on hard telecined content.

[Lyris]

If you want to avoid recompression, why not rip the discs as is and do IVTC during playback?

[paradoxical]

If you want to avoid recompression, why not rip the discs as is and do IVTC during playback?

As I said in the post right above you in response to this very same question already being asked:

Presumably so he has far more control over the final result than whatever IVTC/deinterlacing algorithm the player/renderer might use. Even MadVR's IVTC (which is pretty nice) leaves far more combing and bad matches behind than if I'm using tfm or telecide on hard telecined content.

It's unknown how they're going to play these back. That means that their player may or may not provide high quality IVTC options. Being able to use tfm or telecide means one can get the result they want and then never have to worry about the quality of the IVTC, or lack thereof, for any player that is being used. They may not be using a Windows machine to playback the files which means they won't have MadVR's IVTC or access to using avisynth scripts with ffdshow. They may end up playing their files on a device that can't do proper 3:2 pulldown removal (and there are plenty of DVD or media players that suck at this).

[manono]

They may end up playing their files on a device that can't do proper 3:2 pulldown removal (and there are plenty of DVD or media players that suck at this).
The vast majority of hardware and software DVD players don't IVTC at all, but only deinterlace. Most players are lousy flag-readers. You need a good cadence-reader for the player to remove the hard pulldown. Me, I always IVTC hard telecined DVDs and reencode them for playback on my DVD players. If you have a good Oppo or Denon or others that can do it, then fine. Otherwise I don't much care about the reencoding affecting the quality a little bit.

[Shike]

Let me say I'm not against doing a straight VOB rip if there is a good IVTC option available. I've dipped in and out since IVTC used to be a bear (and still is?) to do in real time.

@paradoxical

Two questions: is there any good guides on using the Anime IVTC or other scripts and ripping anime DVDs in general - like a general approved workflow? Second, last time I tried MadVR it wouldn't work with DVD's - is there a way to do so now? For reference I'm using Windows 7 x64. It might be worth checking to see what results I can get with it.

@manono

Funny you should mention the Denon DVD players, I actually just purchased a DVD-1600 used for $50 to hold me over till my backups are finished. It uses a Faroudja, but being ~ten years old I don't know how long it will last so it's a temp solution till I get my collection backed up. :o

[osgZach]

I would think a modern PC could handle realtime IVTC, as long as you weren't doing any other processing.

The problem is you don't want simple IVTC for Anime DVD's unless you like lots of stuttering. The best way to archive Anime would be to IVTC it and then process it for VFR, compressing it with x264 (you can keep the AC3 stream intact, most tools will do this for you these days, or let you extract it yourself).

I'm going to start doing this soon for my own digital library. Which will have lots of Anime, so.. VFR is the flavor of the day for me. I'll probably try my hand at 10-bit encoding too, to see how much real benefit I can get out of it.

TFM makes this mostly painless. If you don't want absolute 100% accuracy then letting it do IVTC and generate MKV timecodes output for you, is by far one of the best solutions. You probably won't notice any defects during playback anyway, unless it really badly screws up (and it shouldn't).

There are of course tools like Yatta, which let you manually IVTC stuff and process for VFR - but those of us with the fortitude to actually use it, are few and far between.

[manono]

Two questions: is there any good guides on using the Anime IVTC or other scripts and ripping anime DVDs in general
Unless your anime is one of the odd ones with weird stuff going on you don't need AnimeIVTC. Just a regular TFM.TDecimate(Mode=1)
is fine.


The problem is you don't want simple IVTC for Anime DVD's unless you like lots of stuttering. The best way to archive Anime would be to IVTC it and then process it for VFR...
In my experience, true VFR animes are very rare. Sure, there are some with 29.97fps opening songs or interlaced 29.97fps end credits with the body of the episodes 23.976fps (with parts at 8fps or 12fps, but meant to be played as 23.976fps), but, again, that's pretty rare. Anyway, he's making DVDs (I think) so what you've suggested, while sometimes a good idea, isn't really an option. And if I have some stuff that I want to keep at 29.97fps I'll encode it separately and join it with the rest during authoring.

[osgZach]

Maybe the newer Animes are getting a lot better at this, but I have a crapton of DVD's that have plenty of 23.976 / 29.97 content and its certainly not all confined to Title sequences. Lots of Anime with CG shots all over the place for instance. I mean really this is why we have packages like AnimeIVTC.

I guess the OP hasn't really made it clear (in my opinion) what his intended playback source is, and how he wants to store them. If he simply wants to back them up, then hell just get a DVD Decryption package and do 1:1 backups. Avoid all this mess. But whether you are making a DVD or encoding to a file for playback on a PC, for Anime I would always go with an IVTC and if necesarry VFR processing into an MKV w/timecodes (unless you can verify the source is entire 24 or 30 fps). I have yet to see a hardware or software solution that provides really good playback of this kind of content; at least not one that would satisfy me...

[Shike]

Sorry if it seems I'm being vague. :(

For backup, it will be done to a Windows 7 PC, which will also be the only source.

osgZach, I have a bunch of anime that has the same issue. Do you have any tutorials on how you plan to go about backing up your collection, as it seems your way would be the closest to what I'd want at this point in time.

[osgZach]

I don't really have links to, nor have I written any tutorials myself. To be honest, a lot of my (limited) experience has been acquired through years of playing around with stuff and experimenting.

Almost invariably your tools will be the following.

Avisynth - and all the various filters that entails (AnimeIVTC, QTGMC, TIVTC, Telecide, DeDup, etc)
TIVTC Package (TFM/Tdecimate) or Decomb512, Telecide, etc.
*Yatta (if you're a masochist).
Virtualdub
x264
MeGUI
mkvtoolnix

There unfortunately is no "one size fits all" guide when it comes to these things, especially Anime. You will find some Anime which you simply cannot fix. For example Record of Lodoss War, is notorious for the horrible frame blending it suffers from. I also know from experience that Dirty Pair: Flash suffers from a horrible transfer, and has bad frames at every scene change, ranging from out of focus to physical damage, and possibly some other splicing damage. I started working on that one day and took a break - I am still on that break.