DGIndex is NOT showing delay in AC3 file when video has delay

[VideoFanatic]

Example: Here's (http://sdrv.ms/SEmAdi) a 1.4GB MPEG2. When you save a project of it with DGIndex then remux the video and AC3 file, the video has an audio delay - most obvious at the end of the video when the guys are talking. Yet the AC3 file has no delay mentioned in the file name. The same things happens in DGDecNV. The MPEG2 file did not have a delay until a project of it was saved with DGIndex.

Also try saving a project using the video demux option then immediately remux the files and you can see the delay at the end of the video as mentioned before.

[Guest]

The delay is calculated at the beginning of the stream. Many things can happen within the stream, or due to your handling of it, to throw off sync.

I'd be willing to have a look at your stream and see if I can identify anything. But you'll have to use a host that doesn't require me to sign up. One option is mediafire.com.

[VideoFanatic]

I don't understand what the problem is. Don't you have a Microsoft live account? If so, you can sign in to download the file. I'm sorry I didn't realize before using SkyDrive that you had to sign in to download a file. I really don't want to have to upload the file again and split it up for MediaFire, it already took me several hours to upload it to SkyDrive.

[Guest]

I don't want to give Microsoft my email and other personal details.

If the issue is important to you, then you'll do what you need to get help from people that can help you, and you won't ask them to jump through hoops to help you.

Is it clear enough now?

Send me your sign-in details and I'll use your account.

[Guest]

Thank you for the account details. I am downloading it now...

[Guest]

The stream has apparently been edited. What did you use to make the cuts/edits? There are a lot of ways to screw up audio sync at cuts/joins.

[VideoFanatic]

I used VideoRedo. Just wondering, does DGIndex only cause the delay in the AC3 file and not the video file? If I get a delay in the AC3 file, when muxing back, could I instead just demux the video before I used DGIndex on it and then mux the DGIndex video with the AC3 file I demuxed which doesn't have a delay? Then I won't get a delay will I?

[Guest]

I used VideoRedo. I have to assume that screwed things up. Another possibility is you had commercials with different audio and that weren't cut out properly.

Just wondering, does DGIndex only cause the delay in the AC3 file and not the video file? DGIndex does not cause any delay, so you lost me here.

If I get a delay in the AC3 file, when muxing back, could I instead just demux the video before I used DGIndex on it and then mux the DGIndex video with the AC3 file I demuxed which doesn't have a delay? Then I won't get a delay will I? I don't fully follow you, so why not go ahead and try that?

DGIndex doesn't add or delete anything so it can't cause any delay. It just reports what it finds according to the PTS timestamps at the start of the stream.

[VideoFanatic]

The stream has apparently been edited. What did you use to make the cuts/edits? There are a lot of ways to screw up audio sync at cuts/joins.

Yes I made several cuts using VideoRedo h264. It muxes instead of Re-encoding. In VideoRedo option under Stream Parameters I select Resync - Insert Extra Video Frames (the other option is Resync - Remove Audio frames). Then I saved the video. Then I saved the project in DGIndex. DGIndex caused the delay in the ac3 file which was not in the original MPEG2 but what's worse is that it didn't mention the delay in the ac3 file name.

If before I saved the project I saved the video again in VideoRedo then the pop up which shows when the video has finished saving would have told me that "x amount of video resync frames were removed" (it's only about 8 frames) and then saved the project then I wouldn't get a delay.

The other option in VideoRedo is to Resync - Insert Remove Audio frames however if I do that and then save the video twice, no video resync frames were removed and I get a delay with DGIndex. Whatever option I choose, there are no problems with the sync or anything else in the finished MPEG2 file. I can make a DVD with the MPEG2 or whatever and there are no problems. But if I take that MPEG2 and save a project in DGIndex then the demuxed AC3 file has a delay. Therefore it's DGIndex that's causing the problem. If I demux the MPEG2 file in TSMuxer then mux the AC3 and video file from that back into an MPEG2 - I don't get a delay.

[Guest]

If I demux the MPEG2 file in TSMuxer then mux the AC3 and video file from that back into an MPEG2 - I don't get a delay. I'll try to duplicate that with your sample tonight. But I tell you again, DGIndex does not add or remove any audio. It's possible that tsmuxer is correcting a PTS discontinuity. I'll know more tonight.

[Guest]

I tried your scenario. I demuxed the audio and video, once with DGIndex and once with tsmuxer. The video streams contained the exact same number of frames and the audio streams were binary identical.

So the ball's back in your court. Maybe your muxing is causing problems?

[VideoFanatic]

This is what I did:

1: Saved Project & Demux Video of MPEG2 with DGIndex. The AC3 file DGIndex makes has no delay in the file name. However if you remux the AC3 & video file with TSMuxer you can see that the audio is not in sync at the end of the video by watching the man talking. The MPEG2 file was in sync before I saved the project with DGIndex. Are you saying you did this and you don't have any sync problems?

2. Instead of saving a project with DGIndex if you just demux the MPEG2 with TSMuxer then mux the files back then you don't get any sync problems (obviously.)

[Guest]

The streams demuxed by both tools are identical!

Just for fun I tried remuxing with tsmuxer the audio and video demuxed by tsmuxer. The result was out of sync at the end. You said obviously they are still in sync, but did you actually try it?

I tried again with Manzanita Muxer (a professional tool). Same result.

Your editing has screwed things up. As long as you play the original MPG file it is OK, because the PTS timestamps are there to ensure sync. Once you demux, those timestamps are lost.

[VideoFanatic]

Your editing has screwed things up. As long as you play the original MPG file it is OK, because the PTS timestamps are there to ensure sync. Once you demux, those timestamps are lost.

I said DGIndex gives an out of sync AC3 file when you remux which you confirmed.

What I said was obvious was that if I just demux the MPEG2 (which hasn't been touched by DGIndex) with TSMuxer then mux back then the video is in sync.

Also you said the timestamps which ensure sync are lost once you demux yet how come I can demux and remux with TSMuxer and the video is still in sync?

Anyway you've confirmed that it's DGindex causing the problem. Would you be able to fix it so that it just demuxes like TSMuxer without causing an audio delay in the AC3 file?

How could my editing screw things up? I just marked sections of the video I wanted to cut then saved the video. The only option in VideoRedo for "detect / resync missing frames" is "Resync - Insert extra video frames" or "Resync - Remove Audio Frames". Whatever option I choose, I get a delay in the AC3 file generated by saving the project in DGIndex even though the MPEG2 was in sync before I saved the project.

I haven't seen a better program than VideoRedo h264 which allows you to mux instead of Re-encoding, which saves a 1 hour 30 min video in 1 minute and which is easy to make simple cuts in. I can mark chapter points as well for use in MultiAVCHD. If you know of a better program then please let me know.

[Guest]

Anyway you've confirmed that it's DGindex causing the problem. Hey pal, I never confirmed any such thing. You misrepresent me while totally missing my point.

[an3k]

I already have used DGIndex(NV) for far more than 1000 videos. Last week I started converting many of my DVDs and BDs (~60) for vacation and I only got two asynchronous demuxes. The async ones are little bit crappy recordings from concerts. What I want to say is that I got async audio out of DGIndex but not because of that software but because of the crappy source files.
If DGIndex would cause the async all or at least most of my demuxes had to be async.

Is the whole video async at the same level or does it increase towards the end of the video?

Yes I made several cuts using VideoRedo h264. It muxes instead of Re-encoding. In VideoRedo option under Stream Parameters I select Resync - Insert Extra Video Frames (the other option is Resync - Remove Audio frames). Then I saved the video. Then I saved the project in DGIndex. DGIndex caused the delay in the ac3 file which was not in the original MPEG2 but what's worse is that it didn't mention the delay in the ac3 file name.

And why do you do this BEFORE remuxing? First get your raw streams, then re-encode them if you want and finally mux them. Now you can add cuts and such stuff to the newly muxed file.

I think that VideoRedo is causing the delay because you enabled "Resync - Insert Extra Video Frames". Either it adds unnecessary video frames (and doesn't tell you) - which is fine as long that file is not demuxed - or it just adds a bit crap here and there into the container which then cause other (de)muxers to struggle. Perhaps the enabled option itself causes the problem or the software at all.

I'll download your file and test it myself with DGIndexNV, TSMuxer and Avisynth but not now because its 5am and I'm tired!

[Guest]

The problem is that an arbitrary cut cannot exactly match the start of both an audio and video object. They have different time granularities. If you truncate partial audio frames at video cut points, a progressive desync results that manifests itself when presentation timestamps are lost through demuxing.

And why do you do this BEFORE remuxing? First get your raw streams, then re-encode them if you want and finally mux them. Now you can add cuts and such stuff to the newly muxed file. This is really great advice! Bravo. It gives a way to avoid the problem I described above.

[VideoFanatic]

Hey pal, I never confirmed any such thing. You misrepresent me while totally missing my point. And now sadly I have run out of available time to help you.

Here's a new version of the video test (https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=9BAAC61FF48064B0!114) I posted earlier.


Neuron2 - I'm sorry I misread what you said. I wasn't trying to be clever with anything I said and I really would like to know if there's a better editor than VideoRedo!

I thought you said when you remuxed the DGINdex demuxed files that the audio was out of sync but you actually said when you demuxed the MPEG2 (I posted earlier) with TSMuxer and then muxed back - the audio was out of sync. Is that correct? I guess my eyes just saw what they wanted to see - if I demux the MPEG2 with TSMuxer then remux - you are correct - the audio is out of sync.

Yes I could just encode the video first, mux back and THEN make my cuts however that would increase the encoding time because when you encode several 2 hour videos a day and each 1 has 30 minutes of commercials then that takes a long time to encode unless you cut them out beforehand. Hasn't anyone else who's edited a video and saved a project in DGIndex reported this sync problem before or do most people just encode first and then make their cuts?

To solve this problem, in VideoRedo I enabled multiple audio stream support.

In VideoRedo it now doesn't matter if I choose "Resync - Remove Audio Frames" or "Resync - Insert Extra Video Frames" because once I make my cuts and save the file (see new sample I posted at beginning of this post) and then demux and remux with TSMuxer, this time the audio is in sync! However if I take the VideoRedo saved file and "Save Project and Demux Video" with DGindex and then remux the DGIndex files - the audio has a delay and it's mentioned in the AC3 file name. So this time it is DGIndex causing the problem!

The problem is that an arbitrary cut cannot exactly match the start of both an audio and video object. They have different time granularities. If you truncate partial audio frames at video cut points, a progressive desync results that manifests itself when presentation timestamps are lost through demuxing. This is really great advice! Bravo. It gives a way to avoid the problem I described above.

I have no idea if VideoRedo is "truncating partial audio frames at video cut points" or not but when I now demux and remux - the audio is in sync!

[an3k]

Yes I could just encode the video first, mux back and THEN make my cuts however that would increase the encoding time because when you encode several 2 hour videos a day and each 1 has 30 minutes of commercials then that takes a long time to encode unless you cut them out beforehand. Hasn't anyone else who's edited a video and saved a project in DGIndex reported this sync problem before or do most people just encode first and then make their cuts?

What do you want to do exactly? Record a MPEG2 from somewhere, remove the ads and then encode it to H.264 or MPEG4 ASP? You don't want to add funny transitions, end titles or something like that?

If so these is a much better way to do so! Get MeGUI. It uses DGIndex(NV), Avisynth and some other tools. First you index the mpeg2 with DGIndex, then you open the dgi file with the avs script creator in MeGUI. Now you see the raw video and a settings window (resize, crop, deinterlace, denoise, sharpening and much more. You also have the script editor window where you can write manually.
Using the video preview scroll to the ads, write down the last frame of video before ad starts and first frame of video after ad ends. Do this for every ad (like in VideoRedo). After you're finished you can save that avs file. Now do the same with the audio but instead of searching for start and end of ads just use the frame numbers you used for the video. Save that avs file too.

After that is done open the video and audio avs in the main tab, select the codec and its profile you want and queue them. Now go to the queue tab and start the encoding process.


Yes, at first Avisynth looks very complicated but after you understood how it works you can do much much more with it than with all of the other video editing tools (except those expensive suites like AfterEffects/Premiere :).

[Guest]

In VideoRedo it now doesn't matter if I choose "Resync - Remove Audio Frames" or "Resync - Insert Extra Video Frames" because once I make my cuts and save the file (see new sample I posted at beginning of this post) and then demux and remux with TSMuxer, this time the audio is in sync! However if I take the VideoRedo saved file and "Save Project and Demux Video" with DGindex and then remux the DGIndex files - the audio has a delay and it's mentioned in the AC3 file name. So this time it is DGIndex causing the problem! You misled us about the first sample and results. Now you ask me to do another 1.5 GB download. I'll go through this one more time and that's it. But before I do, please tell me what you did differently with this sample such that you expect the results to be different.

I fully agree with an3k, it's much better to do your editing in the decompressed domain, not on the transport stream. I use AvsP for this, but there are several good ways to manage it.

[laserfan]

Hasn't anyone else who's edited a video and saved a project in DGIndex reported this sync problem before or do most people just encode first and then make their cuts?
I've not followed this thread very closely but have used VRD a few times w/o the problems you've reported. It seems to me iirc that what I've done is

- edited a recorded (TiVo in my case) HDTV program in VRD

- saved that edited program as Elementary Streams

- converted the Video ES using DGtools/x264

- converted also the CC of the TV program to text with ccextractor and made a BD sub from it

- muxed the converted video, original audio es, and new sub w/tsMuxeR

- it works

Dunno about out-of-sync in your case unless as neuron2 said up-front maybe your VRD cuts have in some cases not been made retaining only original audio. IOW if you have a TV show that is DD5.1, and then it transitions to a commercial break which is only mono or stereo non-Dolby, and include some frames from That, then that could be an issue I suppose. I have VRD set to show a different color waveform for diff audio tracks so I don't make this mistake.

[VideoFanatic]

I thought I already did explain in my last post? I just enabled multiple audio stream support in VideoRedo and saved the video as an MPEG2. I then demuxed that video with TSMuxer and remuxed and the audio was in sync. However if I take the MPEG2 saved from VidoeRedo and "Save Project and Demux Video" with DGIndex and then remux the DGindex files then the audio is out of sync!

[Guest]

Please compare the audio and video elementary streams demuxed by tsmuxer to those demuxed by DGIndex. Are they different? Meanwhile, I await completion of downloading for this new sample.

[VideoFanatic]

OK but what do you mean by compare?

[Guest]

I demuxed the new stream with both DGIndex and tsmuxer. I then remuxed both with tsmuxer. Both play in sync at the end of the file. So you appear to be misleading us again. Also, the demuxed files are again the same, so that result is expected. The reported 2ms delay is present in the source file.

So what exactly are you saying is wrong here?

(When I say "compare" two files I mean to check if they have the same content. If the elementary streams are the same then you would expect the same result when they are muxed.)

[VideoFanatic]

What I was saying was that DGindex is causing a delay but it seems that isn't true. For the video sample I uploaded, I created it by saving the video in VideoRedo and then demuxed and remuxed with TSMuxer. I played the video and it seemed to be in sync at the end of the video. I also took the VideoRedo video and saved a project with DGindex and I saw a 2ms delay mentioned in the AC3 file. I didn't play the video to see if it was in sync or not because I assumed it wouldn't be due to the delay mentioned in the file name. I played it just now and it was in sync despite the 2ms delay. So whether I use TSMuxer or DGindex makes no difference to the sync. Is 2ms too little of a delay to be able to see any sync problems in the video? How much of a delay do I need for me to be able to see it? I tried saving a project of a different video and got a 14ms delay and I couldn't see any sync problems when playing back the video!

I don't suppose you have a test file that has a large delay when saving a project in DGindex? That way I can test it.

[Guest]

The DirecTV spec for sync is <= 20 milliseconds. Exactly where it becomes noticable is different for different people, some are very sensitive to it and others don't even notice 100 milliseconds. I would not expect a 14 millisecond delay to be noticable by anyone but there may be freakish outlier people. :)

I don't suppose you have a test file that has a large delay when saving a project in DGindex? That way I can test it. Of course I have such files. What do you want to test? The point of reporting the delay in the filename is so that you can shift the audio as needed in your script to eliminate the delay. For 2 milliseconds, it's too small to bother but you could correct it.

Just get a VOB and cut a piece out of the middle. Likely you will have some delay in the demuxed audio due to the open GOPs. You also see delays quite often in transport streams.

[VideoFanatic]

So I tried 3 different methods:

1. In VideoRedo I enabled multiple audio stream support and saved the video. I got a 2ms delay when using DGIndex and remuxing or if I demuxed first using TSMuxer then used DGindex and muxed the DGIndex video with the TSmuxer AC3 file. However I can't see a delay in either video. I also tried lots of other files and the largest delay I got was 29ms but again I couldn't see a delay at the start or end of the video.

2. In VideoRedo I could disable multiple audio stream support and choose the "Resync - Insert Extra Video Frames" then save the video twice. On the 2nd save it inserts a several video frames. If I then demux and remux with DGindex or TSmuxer then I don't get a delay.

This is VideoRedo's description of Resync - Insert Extra Video Frames: If the video starts to lags behind the audio, VideoReDo will insert extra replicated frames into the GOP in order to maintain sync. This setting is useful when the source material is digitized from old or noisy video tapes. Often these tapes create multiple video drop outs, yet the audio is perfect. By inserting the extra frames into the output stream, the audio track as well as sync is preserved.

3. In VideoRedo I tried disabling multiple audio stream support then saved the video. I then saved project in DGIndex and got no delay in the file name but after I remuxed the DGindex files I could see a delay! Of course the same things happens if before using DGIndex I demuxed using TSMuxer then remuxed the TSMuxer AC3 and the DGindex video file.

How do you shift the audio in a script to remove the delay reported with DGIndex ( I'm only encoding video not audio)?. Also if I did option 3 then I wouldn't be able to do that because DGIndex does not mention a delay in the file name even though their is one!

So basically DGIndex isn't causing any problems and I could do option 1 however I'm reluctant as I may get a visible delay in future. I could do option 2 however "the disable multiple audio stream support" option may be removed in future versions of VideoRedo. I could try AvsPmod like you suggested but it isn't much good to me because there's no audio in it. I watch my videos in a video editor and edit them at the same time.

[Guest]

So I tried 3 different methods:

1. In VideoRedo I enabled multiple audio stream support and saved the video. I got a 2ms delay when using DGIndex and remuxing or if I demuxed first using TSMuxer then used DGindex and muxed the DGIndex video with the TSmuxer AC3 file. However I can't see a delay in either video. I also tried lots of other files and the largest delay I got was 29ms but again I couldn't see a delay at the start or end of the video. OK, that is consistent with most people, but DirectTV would not accept it.

3. In VideoRedo I tried disabling multiple audio stream support then saved the video. I then saved project in DGIndex and got no delay in the file name but after I remuxed the DGindex files I could see a delay! Of course the same things happens if before using DGIndex I demuxed using TSMuxer then remuxed the TSMuxer AC3 and the DGindex video file. Yes, and I explained why all this occurs.

How do you shift the audio in a script to remove the delay reported with DGIndex ( I'm only encoding video not audio)?. If you are processing audio in your script, you use DelayAudio(). If not, you use an external tool like DelayCut. But this won't help you if you have created progressive desync by inappropriate editing.

Also if I did option 3 then I wouldn't be able to do that because DGIndex does not mention a delay in the file name even though their is one! I explained why this is so, but you are unable to comprehend it.

So basically DGIndex isn't causing any problems Halleluhah, you've seen the light.

and I could do option 1 however I'm reluctant as I may get a visible delay in future. I could do option 2 however "the disable multiple audio stream support" option may be removed in future versions of VideoRedo. I could try AvsPmod like you suggested but it isn't much good to me because there's no audio in it. That's because you did not include it in your script.

Look, DGIndex is operating rationally and sensibly and as designed. You have lots of options for processing, and other tools are also involved. If you hose up your process don't blame it on some specific tool without knowing what is going on. Get to the bottom of things. Everything you need to know to do that is here in this thread.

If you do editing at transport stream level and then demux, you can run into issues, depending on how the editing is done. This isn't the fault of DGIndex, it doesn't know how you may have mangled your transport stream. Why aren't you whining about tsmuxer? After all, you can demux with it, remux, and have audio desync. Why isn't your thread title "tsmuxer is screwing up my audio sync"? You screwed it up with your editing!

[VideoFanatic]

Also if I did option 3 then I wouldn't be able to do that because DGIndex does not mention a delay in the file name even though their is one!

How do you know there is a delay? Where is your demonstartion of this? Or should we assume you don't really understand what is going on and you are misleading us again?

That was the first video I uploaded which you checked and we both confirmed that the delay was in the AC3 file whether demuxed by TSMuxer or DGindex.

AvsPmod only plays a video when you hold the right arrow key. I said before that I watch a video while I edit it. I don't want to hold the arrow key all the time. I want to be able to play it without holding any keys down then pause it and make my cuts. AvsPmod also doesn't show the video in the correct aspect ratio.

I think I'll just try the 1st option along with DelayCut. Here's (http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1725/delaycut.png) a screenshot of the options I selected if I have a delay of 6ms. Are these the correct options I should select?

[Guest]

Also if I did option 3 then I wouldn't be able to do that because DGIndex does not mention a delay in the file name even though their is one! You made a progressive desync by your edits. DGIndex reports only the delay at the start. There is no delay at the start. It occurs at the point of your first edit and gets worse with each subsequent one. This is seen only when you demux. I told you all this. Why do you continually fail to comprehend what I tell you?

I think I'll just try the 1st option along with DelayCut. Here's (http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1725/delaycut.png) a screenshot of the options I selected if I have a delay of 6ms. Are these the correct options I should select? It won't help if you made a progressive desync. DelayCut addresses only the fixed offset at the start. And why bother for 6ms? Didn't you absorb our discussion about perceptible delays?

I have really reached the end of my rope, because you fail to understand what I say. You don't seem to even understand the difference between a fixed offset delay and a progressive one.

[VideoFanatic]

If you are processing audio in your script, you use DelayAudio(). If not, you use an external tool like DelayCut. But this won't help you if you have created progressive desync by inappropriate editing.

I didn't think my editing was inappropriate! I was just make some simple cuts but I understand what you're saying now about progressive desync. I'm basically screwed sync-wise if I edit a video before I process it with Avisynth and there's no way to fix the sync in the Ac3 file. Thanks for your help and I'm sorry I'm a bit slow when it comes to absorbing information.

[Guest]

You're not screwed if you choose the right option in VideRedo. You showed that yourself.

I don't know why you are winding yourself up in all these knots. Use the appropriate option in VideoRedo to retain sync and be happy. They are not going to remove it as it has an essential function, as you have learned. Use that option and then, if the resulting project reports a delay greater than 20ms, you can correct it with DelayCut.

I have to head to a swim meet, I'll check back later.

[VideoFanatic]

VideoRedo has an enable support for multiple audio streams option. You can set it to disable. I can then save a video and I don't get a delay or any sync problems in DGIndex. That is the option that will be removed in future versions.

The default setting of enable support for multiple audio streams = yes, will not be removed in future versions but that shows a delay in the AC3 file via DGindex. While I haven't seen a delay in the video, it doesn't fill me with confidence that I won't see one in future!

[Guest]

What makes you think an important option is going to be removed?

[VideoFanatic]

You're not screwed if you choose the right option in VideRedo. You showed that yourself.

I don't know why you are winding yourself up in all these knots. Use the appropriate option in VideoRedo to retain sync and be happy. They are not going to remove it as it has an essential function, as you have learned. Use that option and then, if the resulting project reports a delay greater than 20ms, you can correct it with DelayCut.

What I mean is that the default setting of enable support for multiple audio streams defaults to yes but that shows a delay in the AC3 file via DGindex. The option to set it to no results in no delay but that setting WILL be removed in future versions. I thought you said before that I can NOT use DelayCut because the cuts I made in the video result in a progressive desync video?

[Guest]

Again I ask, what makes you think an important option is going to be removed?

[VideoFanatic]

Did you read what I said? Also the developers told me that the option to disable multiple audio stream support will be removed in future versions. I said that several posts ago.

You moaned at me for not listening to you when you said I can't use DelayCut because when you edit a video you make it progressive desync so DelayCut won't work so why did you suggest me to use it again?

[Guest]

Now you're getting pissy so I'll leave you to your own devices. Good luck!

[VideoFanatic]

My comment was perfectly reasonable considering that you're the one who got pissy with me for not listening to you. Not so nice being on the other end of it, is it?

[setarip_old]

@holygamer

Hi!

You say: Also the developers told me that the option to disable multiple audio stream support will be removed in future versions. I said that several posts ago. If you are referring to DGIndex, you're aware, aren't you, that "neuron2" is THE developer of DGIndex, as well as a few other "DG" programs?

[manono]

If you are referring to DGIndex...
I believe he was referring to VideoRedo.

[VideoFanatic]

Now you are misrepresenting what I said. I never said DGIndex was bad. I said both TSmuxer and DGindex cause a delay. In post 28 I explained the options available to me. The option in VideoRedo which does NOT cause a delay will be removed from future versions. The option which will not be removed from future versions of VideoRedo DOES cause a delay (as mentioned in the AC3 file demuxed by DGIndex) although I haven't seen a delay yet - that option does not give me confidence that I won't get a visible delay in future. You've also told me that I can't use DelayCut.

I was just telling you the situation I was in and I accepted it and said thanks for your help, you're the one who keeps dragging things on.

[Mole]

Looks like to me that VideoRedo just doesn't output the edited result properly and as people has mentioned will use "tricks" in order to generate an output which will be in sync when you play it, but will lose sync when the video and audio get demuxed, because when you demux them, the "tricks" that has been used will be discarded and only the real video and audio data remains.

Most of the time, people who do cuts like that only need to play the resulting files, in which case they'll work perfectly fine.
But since you need to process them further, it is then obvious that you will have to look for alternative programs which will be able to cut your files and generate a result which won't have these delay problems.

Perhaps you can try to use avidemux to cut your files instead.
I've used avidemux to cut mpeg files like that and the output has always been fine and you can remux them and everything will still be in sync.

The only drawback with avidemux is that you can only cut at i frames. The cut must begin at an i frame, but can end at any frame.
But for mpeg2 files, this should be a minor problem.

Another alternative which will be able to cut at any frame is MPEG editXpress from Mediaware (http://www.mediaware.com.au/Products/Product.aspx?ProductId=17).