correct BTB, WTW, accurate colors with the chain I m using?

[THX-UltraII]

I want to know if my 'chain' is configured the correct way so the colors and blacks&whites are displayed correct:


MY SOURCE (HTPC) settings:
- NVIDIA graphics card with latest driver and I use the HDMI output of my card.

- Media Player Classic with madVR as output renderer with output setting PC Levels (0-255).

- using LAV video decoder with all the 'Output Formats' checked and 'RGB Output Levels' set to 'Untouched (as input)'.

- I m also using ffdshow Raw Video Decoder: Raw Video to 'All Supported' and in the Output settings only checked the box 'YV12'.

MY DISPLAY DEVICE (JVC RS55 projector) settings:
- Color Profile
The manual of my projector says I have to choose a profile here that suits the input source. A have a few settings I can choose here (I will quote the manual). Which is the correct one to choose?? (looking at the content I m watching*) *I think it is also important to mention the content I m running. I m running only a few different types of content. Full Blu-Ray movies (BDMV structure folder or .m2ts files) and .mov trailers from HDtrailers.net
1. Standard
This is a HDTV profile with an especially rich representation of the film-specific colors
2. Cinema1
This is a profile that resembles the color space of the DCI standard
3. Cinema2
This is a profile that resembles the color space of HDTV

- HDMI Color Space Input
I can choose 'Y Pb/Cb', 'Pr/Cr' or 'RGB' here. I assume I have to choose RBG?

- HDMI dynamic range Input
I can choose 'Standard (16-235)', 'Enhanced (0-255)' or 'Super White' here. I think I have to use 'Enhanced (0-255)' but what s the 'Super White' option for? (I quote the manual about the explanation of the Super White option: ''It is set if the dynamic range of the input video scale level is 16-255. Please set the output to video equipment compatible with Super White for Super White-enabled DVD / BR etc.''



Thanks for all input!

[6233638]

With Nvidia graphics and HDMI, you need to run the "madNvLevelsTweaker" application to ensure that your PC is actually outputting 0-255.

I think you want "Enhanced 0-255" on your projector. The "Super White" option sounds like it will enable the projector to display 16-255 rather than 16-235 with a video-level source.

BTB detail should never be visible, the only reason for being able to see it, is to set up the brightness control on your display. (which is unnecessary on non-CRT displays)

From the description you have posted, you should be using the Cinema 2 profile on your projector, but you may want to ask around AVS Forum instead, as they will have more in-depth knowledge about the RS55 color management system.


You should disable the ffdshow raw video filter, I don't know why you would have that set up. (I don't even have ffdshow installed now that LAV supports DVDs)

[Asmodian]

I too do not think you need ffdshow in the chain.

You might as well set LAV to output 0-255 RGB, if it ends up doing the conversion to RGB (it should leave that to MadVR) you know your projector is expecting 0-255. This is another reason to remove ffdshow; if it gets something besides YV12 you don't want any extra conversions.

I agree with 6233638 for projector settings too; Cinema2, RGB, Enhanced (0-255).

I am also not really sure how much to trust the Color Profile, I have seen too many messed up ones. :( Pick the one that looks best to you, probably between Standard and Cinema2.

[THX-UltraII]

Thanks for your replies guys.

With Nvidia graphics and HDMI, you need to run the "madNvLevelsTweaker" application to ensure that your PC is actually outputting 0-255I m using another method to fix this by adding a command to a specific .inf file when installing the nvidia driver HKR,,SetDefaultFullRGBRangeOnHDMI,%REG_DWORD%,1

I think you want "Enhanced 0-255" on your projectorCHECK!

You should disable the ffdshow raw video filter, I don't know why you would have that set up. (I don't even have ffdshow installed now that LAV supports DVDs)
I too do not think you need ffdshow in the chain.
I m using ffdshow because I m using SVP frame interpolation which needs ffdshow. How do I config ffdshow so there s no extra conversion? If there IS a conversion, I might skip SVP frame interpolation since my JVC RS55 projector handles motion pretty good.

set LAV to output 0-255 RGBCHECK!

I am also not really sure how much to trust the Color Profile, I have seen too many messed up ones. Pick the one that looks best to you, probably between Standard and Cinema2Are you saying that this is a setting that can be set according to personal taste? You guys say Cinema2 but I read a lot users of this projector that use Standard. What is the actual difference between Standard en Cinema2? (Don t understand the difference what the manual says about it).

Thanks a lot again guys

[Asmodian]

I would leave all the other color spaces checked in ffdshow with no reason to force anything. That said this is probably a non-issue as everything will be 4:2:0 anyway.

From the manual it sounds like Cinema2 is the correct option. But, for example, with my TV the equivalent THX Cinema option is actually more off than my Standard option if I pick a good warmth value. There are probably not the same options on your projector but it is hard to know which is closer to spec without a way to measure it.

[6233638]

JVC projectors typically have extremely wide gamuts in their standard mode, Cinema 1 probably even reigns it in a bit for its DCI profile.
Unless there is some other issue from using it (which is possible, as there was with their earlier models) you should be using Cinema 2.

[THX-UltraII]

JVC projectors typically have extremely wide gamuts in their standard mode, Cinema 1 probably even reigns it in a bit for its DCI profile.
Unless there is some other issue from using it (which is possible, as there was with their earlier models) you should be using Cinema 2.hmmmm. Most ISF calibrated JVC RS55 units (from what I read on the AVS Forum) use the Standard Color Input Profile. I ll ask on the AVS Forum why they don t use the Cinema1 or Cinema2 mode.

[6233638]

hmmmm. Most ISF calibrated JVC RS55 units (from what I read on the AVS Forum) use the Standard Color Input Profile. I ll ask on the AVS Forum why they don t use the Cinema1 or Cinema2 mode.They are probably being adjusted from the standard profile with the CMS rather than adjusting from a limited gamut. If you are not using external hardware to calibrate, and just choosing a profile, you are probably best off using Cinema 2. Definitely go with whatever other people are recommending though, I don't own one. (but don't just copy someone else's calibration settings, calibration is done on a per-unit basis)

[THX-UltraII]

double post, sorry

[THX-UltraII]

I m going to use a Avisynth script called FineSharp so I do actaully will need ffdshow in order to get a Avisynth script work.
You guys mentioned ffdshow in this thread before can you specify again please how I do config it properly so there s no extra video conversion being done by ffdshow?

To be more specific about the ffdshow settings:

ffdshow has quite some output settings. First one is the Primary Output Color Space. I can select Auto, YUV (YV12/YUY2/NV12) or RGB here. What do you think I have to choose here when I don t want ffdshow to do a extra video conversion?

Next there are the boxes that can be checked:
4:2:0 YUV YV12 8-bit
4:2:0 YUV NV12 8-bit
4:2:0 YUV P010 10-bit
4:2:0 YUV P016 16-bit
4:2:2 YUV YUY2 8-bit
4:2:2 YUV YUVY 8-bit
4:2:2 YUV P210 10-bit
4:2:2 YUV P216 16-bit
4:4:4 YUV AYUV 8-bit
4:4:4 YUV Y416 16-bit
RGB32 8-bit
RGB24 8-bit

Next there s the setting Set interlaced flag in output media type which is checked by default. Should I leave this checked? More information about this settings:
- Sends interlacing related information obtained from the input stream or ffdshow's internal decoders to the next filter.
- Some filters (like video renderers) will use this information to deinterlace the video if necessary.
- This is just for informing the downstream filters - the actual result will depend purely on the implementation of these filters.
- DVDs may be flagged as interlaced, but in most cases they were originally film (progressive) and just soft telecined. For such video, it is recommended to disable this setting.

And there also the TAB in ffdshow called RGB Conversion which has quite a few settings:
- YCbCr specification:
I can choose 'Auto', 'ITU-R BT.601' or 'BT.709' here. Which one should I use?

- High quality YV12 to RGB conversion:
This checkbox will instruct ffdshow to use a high quality conversion method. The conversion is done in 11-bit or higher and its performance can be improved significantly with multi-core CPUs. This feature requires a SSE2-capable CPU at the minimum.

Should I check this box?

- Dithering:
Dithering is an option to maintain the source's full visual quality when doing YCbCr → RGB conversion. Without dithering, RGB conversion can result in added banding. With “High quality YV12 to RGB conversion” enabled, ffdshow calculates in 11-bit or higher. If this option is checked, the result is dithered otherwise rounded to 8-bit. This increases RGB conversion's CPU usage by about 6%.

Should I check this box?

- Input Levels:
Auto
Standard (Y: 16-235, CbCr: 16-240)
Full Range (Y: 0-255, CbCr: 1-255)

Which one should I use?

- Output Levels:
RGB 0-255
RGB 16-235

Which one should I use?

Thanks!

[Asmodian]

I am assuming you are going for max quality.

1) Auto and leave everything checked.

2) Leave "Set interlaced flag in output media type" checked (unless you are playing one of those DVDs mentioned)

3) I assume you will not be converting to RGB in ffdshow so these settings shouldn't do anything but this is what I use for "just in case": YCbCr specification = Auto, High quality YV12 to RGB conversion = Yes, Dithering = Yes, Input Levels = Auto, Output Levels = 0-255

Note that I no longer use ffdshow as I don't run any real time scripts etc. but this is what I used when I did use it. I hope it helps. :)

[THX-UltraII]

I just tried it and ffdhow says (when playing BDMV blu-ray folder):

input: YV12 (uncompressed)
output: NV12

What does this tell me?

[THX-UltraII]

In addition to my reply above:

- when playing BDMV blu-ray folder and both NV12 and NV12 boxes in ffdshow checked I get:
input: YV12 (uncompressed)
output: NV12

- when playing BDMV blu-ray folder and only NV12 box in ffdshow checked I get:
input: YV12 (uncompressed)
output: NV12

- when playing BDMV blu-ray folder and only YV12 box in ffdshow checked I get:
input: YV12 (uncompressed)
output: YV12

So when ckecking both the NV12 and YV12 box in the output settings of ffdshow, ffdshow chooses NV12 as output (which to me assumes that there is a conversion from YV12 to NV12 done by ffdshow).
When checking only the YV12 box ffdshow chooses YV12 as output (which to me assumes that there is no conversion done by ffdshow).

Is this correct and should I check both NV12 and YV12 or only YV12?

[nevcairiel]

NV12 and YV12 contain the same information in slightly different memory layout. NV12 is the preferred format because renderer support is usually better then YV12. The conversion between the two is lossless.

[THX-UltraII]

So it makes no sense to just check the YV12 box only so I get:

input: YV12 (uncompressed)
output: YV12

[Asmodian]

I do not consider YV12 to NV12 to be a conversion, it is just changing the order of the data in memory to make the video card drivers happier. Of course, it really is a conversion as it is a different format but unlike most color space conversions it is, as nevcairiel stated, totally lossless. All the information is even in the same format, it isn't like lossless UT Video vs. lossless huffyuv. I see no reason to want to keep YV12.