Replicated versus burned disks, bitrates, etc.

[kolak]

SP3 ability to deinterlace source is intended mainly (if not only) for checking field order.
High bitrates eg above 8-8.5Mbit can cause problems for few (corrected from many) players, specially if used on burned (not replicated) discs.

[TheSkiller]

High bitrates eg above 8-8.5Mbit can cause problems for many players, specially if used on burned (not replicated) discs.I dare to say: that's mostly an urban myth. Yes, there surely are a few old (10 years or more), maybe worn out (dirty laser and the like) players that will produce some or much stuttering with bitrates bigger than maybe 8000 with home burnt discs of average burn quality. But the fact that I haven't ever come across one yet that does that with my discs and even the Playstation 2 playing a 9200 kbit/s CBR DVD had no problems despite having an imfamous dodgy laser and the DVD spec allowing such a bitrate is enough for me to use it. :)


I'm certain it is not just a matter of bitrate and player but especially the burn quality of the disc. I check my DVD-R discs using "Nero CD-DVD Speed" and I get excellent results using quality media and a 2006 BenQ burner. Sometimes, believe it or not, commercially replicated discs have more PI-Failures than my home burnt discs.

Playing a rather bad burn the more picky players may produce stuttering in case of very high bitrates, that's why I claim it's not a problem of bitrate but media, burner and maybe player.

[mp3dom]

Never had a single problem with high bitrates, and I almost always hit the 9.8 Mbps (I speak about replicated discs).
Anyway, as already said, SP3 for progressive sources, ProCoder for the interlaced sources. The blur of ProCoder is quite light, you can overcome this (at least about fine grain) using avisynth and the blockbuster plugin with noise method applied.
BTW, even in the 5-6 mbps range I find the results of SP3 more pleasant than HCEnc (always referred to progressive sources).
The output of ProCoder is the same as Carbon Coder, the difference is that ProCoder costs 500$, while Carbon Coder 5000$. They're made for totally different things. Carbon Coder is mainly intender as an "encoding farm" for almost all the professional/broadcast video/audio formats. If you only need to encode to MPEG-2 (and others common formats) there's no need to spend so much money because the output quality is 100% identical (and I mean, mathematically)
x262 is too 'immature' to be used and doesn't output a 'stable' image quality.

[kolak]

I dare to say: that's mostly an urban myth. Yes, there surely are a few old (10 years or more), maybe worn out (dirty laser and the like) players that will produce some or much stuttering with bitrates bigger than maybe 8000 with home burnt discs of average burn quality. But the fact that I haven't ever come across one yet that does that with my discs and even the Playstation 2 playing a 9200 kbit/s CBR DVD had no problems despite having an imfamous dodgy laser and the DVD spec allowing such a bitrate is enough for me to use it. :)


I'm certain it is not just a matter of bitrate and player but especially the burn quality of the disc. I check my DVD-R discs using "Nero CD-DVD Speed" and I get excellent results using quality media and a 2006 BenQ burner. Sometimes, believe it or not, commercially replicated discs have more PI-Failures than my home burnt discs.

In case of a rather bad burn the more picky players may produce stuttering in case of very high bitrates, that's why I claim it's not a problem of bitrate but media, burner and maybe player.

Myth or not myth, all depends on quality of the burned disc and player. On our testing players I had no problems and I also use very high bitrate on many discs- they are video+ PCM+full DTS and peak at 9.5Mbit. In the same time had few complains from clients about some playback issues, which were always gone when replicated discs were tried. Some laptops also have this issue. Some players also have very long LB change with burned DVD-9, which is way better with replicated discs.

I agree that it's not a real issues these days, as most modern players have no problems to play high bitrate burned DVDs.
It also depends on the encoder- eg. Carbon Coder streams seams to have more problems than mpegs from Cinemacraft. Some players have problem with GOPs without B frames also, and this is also what Carbon Coder can make- SP3 has special setting to avoid GOPs without B frames. Overall mpeg2 playback is quite solid in current players.

[zerowalker]

what is replicated discs?

So i should in other words use GOP with B frames, and try to stay under 9.5Mbit Peak, to be "100%" safe so to speak?

[manono]

Maximum allowed combined bitrate of video+audio+subtitles is 9800 kbit/s.
The max allowed for video, audio, subs, and the muxing overhead is 10080 Kbit/s. 9800 Kbit/s is the max allowed for the video alone although, of course, that might have to be adjusted downwards depending on the bitrate of the others. I regularly use a max bitrate for the video of 9500 Kbit/s for burned DVDRs using CCE and have never had a problem.

what is replicated discs?
Pressed discs, as opposed to the burned discs we create with our computers.

[zerowalker]

Pressed Discs?
I think i have heard that from burning DVD+R with DVD-ROM book type?


is that a Pressed Disc?

And how does it differ from normal DVD+/-R discs?
Does it read better or what?

[poisondeathray]

Pressed Discs?
I think i have heard that from burning DVD+R with DVD-ROM book type?


is that a Pressed Disc?

And how does it differ from normal DVD+/-R discs?
Does it read better or what?

No it's the opposite. "Pressed" means not burned with a laser. It's stamped with a machine. You can't do this at home or with consumer equipment. Yes it reads better and is more reliable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_%28optical_media%29

[zerowalker]

Oh, never knew about that, but it explains how they mass produce (even though i haven´t seen the process).
As i can´t see that they have a machine with 10000 dvd drives or something, or maybe it exists;P

But with the normal burned, as i can´t do pressed for obvious reasons, i use Verbatim DVD+R, i have modded my DVD Drive to force DVD-Rom booktype which should be good?

I know that burning speed can make all the difference, but as i understand it, Slower burn = Better?
Cause it will be less error, which means less tear on the laser i think.

But i also read something like (Burning at the stated DVD Disc speed is a golden rule!), meaning 16x DVD should be burned at 16x, though i myself don´t know if it´s true or not,
does anyone know about this?

[TheSkiller]

i use Verbatim DVD+R, i have modded my DVD Drive to force DVD-Rom booktype which should be good?Yes, setting the booktype to DVD-ROM when burning to a DVD+R media is a good thing to do as it will prevent older players made I think in 2004 and earlier from rejecting the disc due to the manufacturer "not liking the plus standard" (you know there was that plus/minus war at the time).
DVD+R DL should also be burned with DVD-ROM booktype for best compatibility.

It doesn't really matter whether you use DVD+R (with DVD-ROM booktype) or DVD-R. I personally use DVD-R.

I know that burning speed can make all the difference, but as i understand it, Slower burn = Better?No, it's not that easy unfortunately. Burning at the fastet rated speed is usually giving slightly worse results than burning at half of that or inbetween. And then, burning really slow, like 4x with a 16x rated media, may worsen the burn quality again.
I would suggest: 16x media - burn with 8x or 12x.

By the way, if you use Verbatim (I use them as well by the way), I would suggest you stay away from the ones that are made in China, they are inferior to the ones made in Taiwan, India and UAE in terms of burn quality and total failures (i.e. discs that fail to burn properly and are instant junk).

[zerowalker]

Ah then it´s as i read with the compatibility, good that there isn´t any bad effects from setting DVD-ROM :)

oh, that was to bad, here is my burning media: http://www.sweburn.com/product.php?productid=167&cat=4&page=1

Not sure, but i think it´s one of the better (think i looked it up).

What would you burn these on?

[TheSkiller]

Not sure, but i think it´s one of the better (think i looked it up).In my experience Verbatim is indeed good, as long as you don't get the ones made in China. But the thing is: of course they all look the same, you can't tell where they are made, except if you hold a new cake-box/spindle in your hands and look at the wrapping foil, at the side there is a white box with small printed stuff. That's where you will find "Made in ..." somewhere. In other words, if bought online there's no way to tell where the discs were made in advance. The media code of the discs can also be used to tell where they were made but again, to do that you need to put a disc in your computer first to read that code.


What would you burn these on?I don't have that much experience with different burners but if you use a full-sized internal (not laptop) burner by Plextor, LG, Lite-On, (genuine) BenQ you're good. The older ones are usually pretty good if IDE connection is possible for you.

[Ghitulescu]

Most new DVDRs are burnt with a higher degree of errors, which slows down the drive and thus the increased odds to stuttering. In particular true for DVDR DLs.
Bittsetting doesn't increase the reading speed, just make them be read by older units. Newer units do not care, or even complain if the bitsetting doesn't correspond to the reality (Samsung).

[zerowalker]

I got TSSTcorp SH-203P with Firmware SB01 (modified to DVD+R and some other stuff).

Is this drive good for burning?
It uses Sata though, i think i have and old Nec(some thousand number) which is IDE.

[Ghitulescu]

I got TSSTcorp SH-203P with Firmware SB01 (modified to DVD+R and some other stuff).

Is this drive good for burning?

Shouldn't you do the opposite way? I mean first learn whether the burner is any good, then buy it? :)

[zerowalker]

I bought this drive, years ago, didn´t read about burning quality at that time:)

[setarip_old]

[@zerowalker

Hi!

You ask?Is this drive good for burning?
Then you say: I bought this drive, years agoYou should be able to answer your own question, based on your firsthand experience with this drive...

[zerowalker]

How do i know if it´s good or not?
As well, my discs can be played, but that doesn´t really tell anyone anything right?

Are there any tests?

[rjd0309]

How do i know if it´s good or not?
As well, my discs can be played, but that doesn´t really tell anyone anything right?

Are there any tests?

The is a drive tool called Opti Drive Control, which you can get here:

http://www.cdspeed2000.com/

It gives several types of reports on the quality of your burn, as well as PIE/PIF error statistics (Disc Quality function).

Indispensible.