Bluray Denoising Help

[Mr.Sandman]

Hello ppl, new in the forum... and bad english :)
I started buying a few BD's for my extensive movie collection... but i confess i am a bit dissappointed with some movies they put too much grain/noise/dither on the image, and a i am one of those guys that loves a beautiful smooth image so i tried a lot of denoisers/denoising methods.
-I tested: fft3dfilter/dfttest/dfttestMC/Mdegrain/vaguedenoiser/tnlmeans/neatvideo(this conserves detail excellently but cannot detect accurately all type of noise...sad :()... and some others... and they all have one thing in common... loss of some important detail. So i would like to know if its possible to denoise a clip without loss of important detail...i prefer a spatial only method since most of my tests using some fine temporal denoiser/method erased stars on the sky (u know what i mean) + ghosting on some fine spat/temp denoisers :(

i once read somewhere that exists a repair tool from removegrain but i dont know how to use it (but does it worth it)?

my actually test are:

dfttest(dither=1,sigma16,sigma2=16,f0beta=1.0,tbsize=1,sbsize=24,sosize=18) this one on the movie Super8 (BD) kills some important detail like lines...u know.

i even tried sbsize=120,sosize=90 (beautiffull image denoising + detail retention...but some artifacts showing on some frames) :( ... i hate bluray....but i hate dvd twice more lol

thanx

[tormento]

Don't get crazy and simply use SMDegrain, the newer version is on Doom10 forum.

[Mr.Sandman]

Hello tormento ...and people.
I tried smdegrain(not the mod version) and it produces overall good denoising but i have the same problem on a frame that contain falling tree leaves disappearing from one frame to another.
Examples:
1 - Not Denoised - http://uploading.com/files/med82mc3/Raw.jpg/
2 - SMDegrain Denoised - http://uploading.com/files/f651e26m/SMDegrain.jpg/

thank you for your help

(Edited) Just changed to smdegrainmod with the fllowing line smdegrain(refinemotion=true,prefilter=3,thscd2=96)... afew more leafs just appeared on the frame...where getting closer :)

[mastrboy]

you should post a sample, without a sample it's just a guessing game...

And my first guess is that you could try changing the search/searchparam for mvtools, can't remember if they are exposed for smdegrain though.

From mvtools2 manual: http://avisynth.org.ru/mvtools/mvtools2.html

search, searchparam, pelsearch : search decides the type of search at every level, and searchparam is an additional parameter (step, radius) for this search, and pelsearch is the radius parameter at finest (pel) level:

search = 0 : 'OneTimeSearch'. searchparam is the step between each vectors tried ( if searchparam is superior to 1, step will be progressively refined ).
search = 1 : 'NStepSearch'. N is set by searchparam. It's the most well known of the MV search algorithm.
search = 2 : Logarithmic search, also named Diamond Search. searchparam is the initial step search, there again, it is refined progressively.
search = 3 : Exhaustive search, searchparam is the radius (square side is 2*radius+1). It is slow, but it gives the best results, SAD-wise.
search = 4 : Hexagon search, searchparam is the range. (similar to x264).
search = 5 : Uneven Multi Hexagon (UMH) search, searchparam is the range. (similar to x264).
search = 6 : pure Horizontal exhaustive search, searchparam is the radius (width is 2*radius+1).
search = 7 : pure Vertical exhaustive search, searchparam is the radius (height is 2*radius+1).

Defaults are: search=4, searchparam=2, pelsearch=pel.


or is it the dct parameter i'm thinking of, been a while seen i encoded something:


dct: using of block DCT (frequency spectrum) for blocks difference (SAD) calculation. In particular it can improve motion vector estimation at luma flicker and fades.
0 - usual spatial blocks, do not use DCT;
1 - use block DCT instead of spatial data (slow for block size 8x8 and very slow for other sizes);
2 - mixed spatial and DCT data; weight is dependent on mean frame luma difference;
3 - adaptive per-block switching from spatial to equal-weighted mixed mode (experimental, a little faster).
4 - adaptive per-block switching from spatial to mixed mode with more weight of DCT (experimental, a little faster).
added in v1.9.5.3 modes: (require sadx264 0-7, uses fastest SATD function, luma only!)
5 - SATD instead of SAD for luma
6 - same as 2 only use SATD
7 - same as 3 only use SATD
8 - same as 4 only use SATD
9 - similar to 2, use SATD and weight ranges from SAD only to equal SAD & SATD
10 - similar to 3/4,use SATD weight is on SAD, only on strong luma changes
Default = 0.


Anyway, try playing around with search/dct parameters

[Didée]

Encoding BluRay to 720x304, casting pearls before swines, ...

http://thumbnails46.imagebam.com/19306/a61f50193058436.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/a61f50193058436) http://thumbnails71.imagebam.com/19306/6b5367193058458.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6b5367193058458)

Chucking out 86% of original image area, and then worry about detail loss?

Anyway, try reducing thSAD to 1 or 2. Detail will be preserved very well, then. :p

[tormento]

You absolutely have to use the latest version. It can denoise in 16 bit domain and lot of bugs were fixed in the MVTools libraries.

You are using latest AviSynth 2.6 MT, don't you? ;)

[Ghitulescu]

Encoding BluRay to 720x304, casting pearls before swines, ...

Not really ... :) more than 2 million results for brrip, 720 and 304 in google. If one decides to backup an entire blu-ray collection, file sizes around 500MB come very handy :)

[Didée]

You mean ... Like you would backup your entire CD collection to 8bit 8kHz MP3 @ 32kbit? Great "backups" those are...

more than 2 million results for brrip, 720 and 304 in google
Now, exactly THAT is the smell that enters my nose when seeing such resolutions.

[Mr.Sandman]

Hello ppl...thanx for your help... and sorry for late post

here's some samples
1 -720x304 - Not Denoised http://uploading.com/files/f241bf3f/%255B720x304%255D%2BNotDenoised.jpg/
2 -720x304 - SMDegrainMOD http://uploading.com/files/d7974m77/%255B720x304%255D%2BSMDegrain-MOD.jpg/
3 -1920x800 - NotDenoised http://uploading.com/files/3m4273a4/%255B1920x800%255D%2BNotDenoised.jpg/
4 -1920x800 - SMDegrainMOD http://uploading.com/files/bm25m219/%255B1920x800%255D%2BSMDegrain-MOD.jpg/

my actual AVS script is:
_______________________________
setmtmode(5,4)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MEGUI\tools\dgavcindex\DGAVCDecode.dll")
AVCSource("D:\[Super8-RawFiles]\[Super8-RawAVCFile].dga")

crop( 0, 140, 0, -140)

#Spline64Resize(720,304)

setmtmode(2,4)
smdegrain(tr=3,refinemotion=true,prefilter=3,thscd2=96,thsadc=200,blksize=8,overlap=4,search=6)
_______________________________________

well i admit that higher resolution retains more detail.... but i would like toresize for two reasons:
1- 720 is an acceptable resolution even for some 1080p lcd/led ...plus the small size of the movie on a multimedia hdd...instead of playing it on a ps3 (the original BD) i like conversions and small size :) ... but with quality (denoise)

2nd- the rendering time. 1920 clip smdegrained on my quadcore is a little bit slower... these are the two reasons... but hey i wanted detail... so maybe there's a price to pay :( by the time ill have 300 to 600 movies on bd... the standard cpu for the common mortal it's a 16 to 24 cores... who knows i will start denoising and encoding on taht time

anyway i just want to see if it's possible to denoise accurately a bd for later denoising/encoding/storaging(with a more powerful pc)... thanx for your help

keep sending tips.
thanks for ur help

yes tormento i'm using avs 2.6mt and the latest official mvtools2
Word :)

[Anacletus]

@Mr.Sandman
Are you actually denoising because there is so much grain/noise to remove on this particular source? Or you just need to lower the final file size?

Anyway, BD to SD is possible without so much detail loss, but i assume that on "normal" sources yuo are often good to go without filtering (except for the obvious resize) or just with a simple:

SMDegrain(tr=1, thSAD=96, refinemotion=true, lsb=true, contrasharp=30) after the resizing filter..



bye
anac

[Mr.Sandman]

hello anacletus :)

well... i want to denoise 1st because i love a smooth clean near perfect image. 2nd i dont want encodes of 15 to 25GB(1920xsomething) , let's say that (in the future) i would encode or a 720xsomething or a maximum of 1440xsomething with sizes from 7GB(sd-720X...) to 14GB (hd-1440X...) per movie and then put them on an external hdd with hdmi out to my oledTV... i'm addicted for movies, specially denoised ones :) ... some will say that grain is a part of the personality of some films...etc, etc... well i understand them...but that's not my case

thanx for your help.
u guys rule

word :)

[Mr.Sandman]

Hello, again... ;) i'm just testing a few custom made scripts and i would like u to help me insert an mrecalculate on this ... please
here we go.
__________________
b2vec = MAnalyse(pp_super, delta=2, isb=true, chroma=true, search=6, searchparam=6, pelsearch=6, truemotion=false, overlap=2, blksize=4)
b1vec = MAnalyse(pp_super, delta=1, isb=true, chroma=true, search=6, searchparam=6, pelsearch=6, truemotion=false, overlap=2, blksize=4)
f1vec = MAnalyse(pp_super, delta=1, chroma=true, search=6, searchparam=6, pelsearch=6, truemotion=false, overlap=2, blksize=4)
f2vec = MAnalyse(pp_super, delta=2, chroma=true, search=6, searchparam=6, pelsearch=6, truemotion=false, overlap=2, blksize=4)

:)

[StainlessS]

There are a lot of entries listed in search for mrecalculate.

[Mr.Sandman]

Basically i'm trying to "merge" two scripts... is a modified dfttestMC by webchat with the refinemotion (mrecalculate, ithink) of smdegrainmod.