SubOne
27th May 2012, 21:19
There are many great 8-bit lossless codecs, but options are limited in 4:4:4 10-bit land, particularly VFW. (Edit: I now realize that the thread title is misleading - this discussion is not just restricted to VFW encoders) Here are my limited findings for you to add to.
Let's assume applications like VirtualDub, Vegas, Premiere, Speedgrade, Edius, etc and the best ways to get out the highest quality as-close-to-lossless-as-possible.
The native codecs in many of these apps aren't all that great. Yes, 10-bit DPX and Uncompressed AVI are always an option, but the file sizes aren't very appealing. FFV1 can get you to 10-bit, but not without subsampling and generally being slow. OpenEXR PIZ compression is pretty cool, but it isn't broadly supported across the above apps.
Another option is X264 444 10-bit lossless. I haven't quite figured out a way to get this to encode from the above software, x264vfw seems to be no good. Any ideas? Debugmode to Hybrid works but it is really slow.
At this point, a true lossless, 10-bit, 4:4:4 seems like a pipe-dream. So let's move on to near-lossless. I have found two VFW options here - Cineform and HQX. Unfortunately, neither are free solutions (Cineform is free upto 4:2:2), but I tested the trials. I may be wrong, but in both cases these supposedly 10-bit codecs only encode 8-bit (HQX works OK in Edius only). On to the Quicktime side, the new DNxHD 444 actually seems to work pretty well, but I am generally averse to MOV/Quicktime and it's unpredictable gamma shifts, poor performance, etc. Plus it is more lossy than Cineform or HQX.
I am sure I am missing something along the way. So far, in the end it seems like we are back to Uncompressed. What are the best options, then? What encoders would guarantee a 10-bit 4:4:4 output out of these above mentioned type of software? I know DPX works pretty well across the board (provided disk I/O is up to it). But I am just looking for a better solution!
Yes, I know, this is where you would say "this is not worth the trouble, 8-bit or 4:2:2 are 'visually lossless' anyway!". But that's besides the point, I am just one of those loonies who freak out when that 1 byte goes missing!:D
Let's assume applications like VirtualDub, Vegas, Premiere, Speedgrade, Edius, etc and the best ways to get out the highest quality as-close-to-lossless-as-possible.
The native codecs in many of these apps aren't all that great. Yes, 10-bit DPX and Uncompressed AVI are always an option, but the file sizes aren't very appealing. FFV1 can get you to 10-bit, but not without subsampling and generally being slow. OpenEXR PIZ compression is pretty cool, but it isn't broadly supported across the above apps.
Another option is X264 444 10-bit lossless. I haven't quite figured out a way to get this to encode from the above software, x264vfw seems to be no good. Any ideas? Debugmode to Hybrid works but it is really slow.
At this point, a true lossless, 10-bit, 4:4:4 seems like a pipe-dream. So let's move on to near-lossless. I have found two VFW options here - Cineform and HQX. Unfortunately, neither are free solutions (Cineform is free upto 4:2:2), but I tested the trials. I may be wrong, but in both cases these supposedly 10-bit codecs only encode 8-bit (HQX works OK in Edius only). On to the Quicktime side, the new DNxHD 444 actually seems to work pretty well, but I am generally averse to MOV/Quicktime and it's unpredictable gamma shifts, poor performance, etc. Plus it is more lossy than Cineform or HQX.
I am sure I am missing something along the way. So far, in the end it seems like we are back to Uncompressed. What are the best options, then? What encoders would guarantee a 10-bit 4:4:4 output out of these above mentioned type of software? I know DPX works pretty well across the board (provided disk I/O is up to it). But I am just looking for a better solution!
Yes, I know, this is where you would say "this is not worth the trouble, 8-bit or 4:2:2 are 'visually lossless' anyway!". But that's besides the point, I am just one of those loonies who freak out when that 1 byte goes missing!:D