Problems of aspect ratio on Media Player Classic : --sar setting responsible for ?

[sirt]

Hi,

Well I encounter problems with Media Player Classic (MPC). Imagine I try to encode an NTSC source. If I set --sar 10:11 on my comandline, then the x264 encode will be played with the wrong AR on MPC and it will be absolutely correct on VLC player. If I try to set up the AR manually on MKVmerge, the problem will the same on MPC : it will play the file with the same wrong AR whatever I do on MKVmerge.

Nevertheless, if I set --sar 1:1, there is no problem. But, I'm confused because, according to this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_%28image%29#Distinctions I should use sar 10:11 for NTSC sources.

[sneaker_ger]

1. Is the source anamorphic (non-rectangular pixels)?
2. 4:3 or 16:9?

http://www.abload.de/img/anamorph_sarqkx0r.png

mkvmerge will automatically detect the required parameters, if the SAR of the H.264 encode has been set correctly.

[sirt]

It is 4:3 NTSC so 10/11 that's why I chose --sar 10:11 and I didn't set anyhting on MKVmerge. The video input is 720x480 and after cropping I encoded it at 712x252 but as I said the AR is wrong on MPC (larger black bars than it should be) and correct on VLC.

[sneaker_ger]

Upload a short sample of the source.

[sirt]

Here it is : http://www.sendspace.com/file/qqd505

As I said the problem doesn't occur with the source. It only happens with the encode while using --sar 10:11 ; I just cropped in order to get it at 712x252 (so crop( 4, 116, -4, -112))

NOTA : I would like to tell you I'm using a decent source which means I respect the rules ; the video is extracted from the DVD of the limited edition of New Jack City II from bow wow that I bought from there http://www.amazon.com/New-Jack-City-Pt-II/dp/B001JA3UFW

[sneaker_ger]

OK, it is indeed 4:3 NTSC. You are only talking about a few % difference, right?

10:11 is the correct AR according to the standard:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7ncjkn9td86m6qb

I'm not really sure, though. Correct AR is a disputed topic and has been discussed in these forums quite often (and turned into heated arguments). 10:11 is "good enough", IMHO.

[sirt]

Thanks for having done those two tests. Well, in my computer they both look the same on VLC player and on MPC. Howhever, there is still some distorsion on MPC in both cases : the black bars are something like 3 cm larger than in VLC player (where the AR is correct).

[sneaker_ger]

MPC or VLC doesn't make any difference to me, so it is probably a playback problem. Try different splitter and/or decoder and/or renderer.

[Atak_Snajpera]

from math point of view correct sar for 720x480 4:3 is 889:1000 .

720 x 0.889 = 640
640 / 480 = 1.333 (4/3)

[sirt]

I decode the video with ffdshow added as an external filter on MPC ; that's probably the problem ? If I take a look at Options --> Internal Filters ---> Transfrom Filters there is no H264 at all, nothing. I guess something is wrong right there ; what should I do to play the video correctly then ?

[sneaker_ger]

from math point of view correct sar for 720x480 4:3 is 889:1000 .

720 x 0.889 = 640
640 / 480 = 1.333 (4/3)

I actually included a --sar 8:9 sample in my upload, which is even more exact. The problem is that one does not know how the source has been authored. Not all rows are supposed to be active, for example. But I don't really want to start discussing the perfect AR again, as it has been done on doom9 before with no mutual agreements.

[sneaker_ger]

I decode the video with ffdshow added as an external filter on MPC ; that's probably the problem ? If I take a look at Options --> Internal Filters ---> Transfrom Filters there is no H264 at all, nothing. I guess something is wrong right there ; what should I do to play the video correctly then ?

No one here still uses the original Media Player Classic. Everyone has switched to Media Player Classic - Home Cinema (http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/mpc-hc/#!/view=details/lang=de/sort=na) years ago.

[sirt]

Ok I removed it and installed MPC HC. ffdshow is stil setted as the External Filter to decode AVC streams. While trying to play a x264 file, I got a dumb message asking for updating DirectX with the last june 2010 release. I did and I currently get that message when trying to play the video : http://i41.tinypic.com/2w5pmr8.jpg ; I do say Ok twice and the video is then played but in the same way than before : back bars are larger by 3 cm than in VLC.

[hello_hello]

I can't help with the DirectX error but make sure all of MPC-HC's internal filters are checked and remove ffdshow as an external filter (MPC-HC should use ffdshow for decoding anyway if the appropriate internal filter isn't checked, so there's probably no need to have it added as an external filter).

While the video is playing, right click on it somewhere and under Video Frame, check "touch window from inside", make sure "keep aspect ratio" is checked and "override aspect ratio" is set to "default".

It may be an obvious question, but as MPC-HC is currently using ffdshow for decoding while VLC is not, are you sure ffdshow's resize filter isn't enabled?

[sirt]

I did what you asked for : it's exactly like before ; the video is playing but the AR is wrong in the same way. I check ffdshow video parameters, nothing is enabled ; everything is untouched. Well it's weird I know but I don't have that problem with MPEG2 streams which are played correctly in both VLC and MPC HC. The problem occurs with AVC streams encoded with sar 10:11 or sar 8:9. For some reason I ignore, it is fine with sar 1:1 on both players. I guess something doesn't fit with both sar 10:11 and 8:9 but sneaker_ger said the videos are played correctly in his case, so the error is due to my configuration. Should I use sar 1:1 even for stuff intended to be processed with sar 10:11 ? I'm not convinced ; I guess there is something weird with DirectX because I keep on getting the error mentionned below before playing any video. Howhever, the AR error occured also on original MPC without that DirectX warning.

[sneaker_ger]

That D3DERR usually happens when DirectX is not up-to-date or your card does not support the needed functions. (Or EVR is not installed on a Windows XP system? Not sure.)
Go into options -> output and choose a compatible renderer.
Try different splitter(Haali and LAV)/decoder(MPC-HC internal, LAV, ffdshow)/renderer(VMR9, Haali, EVR, EVR custom, madVR) combinations.

In some decoders you can activate "read AR from bitstream".

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191
https://customers.corecodec.com/downloads.php

[sirt]

Well I'm on Vista...so I tried almost everyhting but it's still the same. The only decoder that leads to something different is EVR + System Defaults : the AR is corrrect but the color are fucked up and the audio is out of the sync.

[sneaker_ger]

So, which splitter are you using? Which renderer? Did you test Haali's Splitter? LAV Splitter? LAV Video? Turning on "read AR from stream" in LAV Video or MPC-HC's internal decoder? What kind of graphic card do you have? Is the video driver up-to-date?
Don't expect me to drag everything out of you.

[Sharc]

@sirt
check your MPC-HC settings:
right click in window => Video Frame => Touch Window From Inside => Keep Aspect Ratio => Override Aspect Ratio => Default

[sirt]

Sharc, yes it is setted like that ; I even tried to change that without being sucessful.

sneaker_ger Haali's splitter still gives me the same AR problem. I downloaded LAV filters and added LAV Video as an external filter. May I not configure that properly ? Should I untick something on Output MPC HC's section ? The read "AR from stream" is also ticked but my problem remains the same. Here is my graphic card : http://gpuz.techpowerup.com/12/04/09/752.png

I don't know if the video driver is up-to-date nor how to update.

[sneaker_ger]

Ok, that seems to be an old low-end card.
I'm not sure on how to update the driver. Try to get drivers directly from Dell or through AMD's auto detection utility:
http://support.amd.com/de/gpudownload/windows/Pages/auto_detect.aspx

After installing Haali's splitter you should also be able to choose Haali's renderer in the output settings, btw.

/edit:
Should be a Radeon HD 2400 Pro, try to get the drivers from the ati website. Then try to use EVR again.

[Atak_Snajpera]

evr works even on my old r1950 pro. you will have to download drivers called legacy driver.

[sirt]

I installed the required pilots for that Radeon graphic card and the problem...still remains the same :( In fact I don't have the EVR you both refer to, what is this ? Oh and I still get the DirectX error..

[Asmodian]

At this point it sounds like your problem is with DirectX rather than something else. You may need to update or repair your OS. Are you running Windows XP service pack 2 or newer?

EVR is the Enhanced Video Renderer, a new (compared to overlay, VMR7, or VMR9) renderer for DirectShow applications like MPC-HC.

[sirt]

Well it might be more complex...if I select "system default" on MPC HC and us ffdshow video decoder as external filter the video is played WITHOUT the directx error but the AR is still incorrect. I also tried madVR but the video flux is not decoed at all (only black frames are shown). The only AVC playable correctly are those encoded with --sar 1:1 which, I guess, is weird.

I'm using Familial Vista Service Pack 2 ; you can also check this http://i42.tinypic.com/jj1shj.jpg

[sirt]

Well I think I will stick with VLC player and sar 1;1 videos which work well on both players. I remember in the past I didn't have that problem so I think I've done something wrong one day that fucked up MPC and MPC HC.