What's DTS-MA Stream Extension

[fano]

I've a Walt Disney's Fantasia Blu Ray legally ripped on my PC and again I've not an HD receiver, Mediaportal reads the .m2ts and shows the first audio track as DTS-HD MA (and I play, for now, as an AC3 as my old receiver has not DTS, too)... the strange thing is that if I change track to "Italian" I've the impression to see no real change (when the man present the tracks) on audio no interruption :confused:

It's possible Disney does the right thing? The "SD" track are only for the talked part but then after when the song plays DTS-MA international track automatically plays?
Or it's a Mediaportal bug?

This the MediaInfo Report:


General
ID : 0
Complete name : *:\*********************\BDMV\STREAM\00125.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 35.1 GiB
Duration : 2h 4mn
Overall bit rate : 40.3 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 48.0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Duration : 2h 4mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Maximum bit rate : 27.5 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio #1
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile : MA
Muxing mode : Stream extension
Duration : 2h 4mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits

Audio #2
ID : 4353 (0x1101)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile : MA
Muxing mode : Stream extension
Duration : 2h 4mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits

Audio #3
ID : 4354 (0x1102)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Duration : 2h 4mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.31 GiB (4%)

Audio #4
ID : 4355 (0x1103)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 2h 4mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 570 MiB (2%)

Audio #5
ID : 4356 (0x1104)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 2h 4mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 570 MiB (2%)

Audio #6
ID : 4357 (0x1105)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 2h 4mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 570 MiB (2%)

CUT THERE ARE 6 other audio Tracks
Text #1
ID : 4608 (0x1200)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PGS

Text #2
ID : 4609 (0x1201)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PGS

Text #3
ID : 4610 (0x1202)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PGS

CUT THERE ARE 6 other text Tracks


In particular what's a "DTS MA Stream extension" ?
If it is done in this way as I suppose (the secondary tracks contains only talks, the audio part is DTS-MA Stream extension) there is a way to extract this "stream extension" and to create an unique DTS-HD Ma track with the Italian audio (or Spanish or Turkish or whatever) and the DTS-HD MA audio track for the musical part?
What do you think ;)?

Thakns for your help :D

[Stereodude]

DTS-HD MA has a standard DTS core + extra data that is added to the DTS core to make it lossless. You can't add the extra data anything but the DTS core it was encoded with.

[rica]

I want to add this additional info: (quoted from ex-dtshd whitepaper.)

DTS-HD Audio: Core and Extension Elements in a Single Data Stream:

The DTS-HD Audio format consists of a single data stream that carries both core and extension data. A single data stream has many advantages:

1. The first and most important advantage is backwards compatibility with existing DTS decoders. All decoders make use of the core, while advanced decoders make use of extension data, which is simply ignored by decoders that cannot use it.

2. A second advantage is that the encoding workflow is simplified because only one encoding pass is required to generate both core data and lossless extensions, saving time and expense during the encoding process as compared with competing audio formats.

3. A third advantage is that the size of the core + extension data is generally smaller than the combination of a standalone legacy audio track and standalone lossless audio track offered by competing audio formats. With DTS-HD, content creators can encode a lossless encode and a compatible core in a single data stream with very efficient use of disc space.

4. A fourth advantage is that the DTS core itself is capable of very high performance in comparison with competing coding systems.

Another quote from DTS_Blu-Ray info sheet:

One Stream:

The unique “one-stream” architecture of DTS-HD® results in the most data and bandwidth-efficient lossless audio solution for Blu-ray Disc™.

Best-In-Class Audio Quality

Encode 5.1 channels at up to 192 kHz and 7.1 channels at up to 96 kHz.

Backwards Compatible

Every DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio™, and DTS stream is backwards compatible with all DTS legacy equipment at up to 1509 kbps.

Enhance the 3D Experience

Add 7.1 lossless sound to Blu-ray 3D™ titles.

Advanced

Mixes with DTS Express™ for enhanced Blu-ray Disc Primary and Secondary Audio mixing. Seamless Branching optimization facilitates multi-story or multi-angle BD titles.

So the DTSHD-Master 7.1 (96/24) is accepted unofficially as standard on new (un-official) Blu-Ray Audio format._

For some more readings:

http://www.blu-raystats.com/NewsLog/2010/01/15/dts-hd-master-audio-becoming-the-blu-ray-standard/

And, FYI, I'm attaching the list of Blu-Ray Audio disks I've found: ( All of them is 7.1 DTSHD-MA, btw.)

[fano]

So in the end it's not it's what I think... extension is intended as extends a "core" that it's in itself (:confused:) and it cannot extends the other audio track...

So shall not be a DTS-Ma w/o "stream extension", right? That is w/o the DTS core embedded... (and the MediaInfo subscript this as if it be so important :p ?)

With BD interactive menu(s), JAVA and so on it's not possible that do the change of audio tracks automatically right? It's feasible to remux it (as a BD-5, AVC-HD or MKV)? in this way?

That is if you select, for example, Spanish DTS (or worst AC3) it's talk Spanish during the presentation (and Mikey Mouse intermezzos) and Internationational track automatically selected during the musical part :confused: ?

If it's not possible to do this... IMHO it's an hole in the BD specs :rolleyes:

[rica]

Audio files cannot be selected like subtitles.
Dialog-core (selectable) + Musical extension (or whatever else) is never possible.
Core which is embedded into DTSHD-master audio might have a different sample rate than the extension has.
However, you will always get all the dialogs and music together when you watch or listen to the core individually. (which is embedded in DTSHD-MA)

Here is a sample:

2TS, 1 video track, 2 audio tracks, 1:00:00, 24p
1: Chapters, 10 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, Uncoded, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 192kHz (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48kHz)
4: RAW/PCM, Uncoded, 2.0 channels, 24 bits, 192kHz

It means; you may listen to music+dialogs in 48/24 as dts core or another option is listening them to at 192/24.
In this case, all the dialogs and music are extended to 192 from 48.

And for an hour audio media, you will need almost 10 GB for every different language DTSHD-MA track at 7.1 96/24 or 5.1 at 192/24.
If you want to put five languages, there wouldn't be any space left for putting any video at all.