Improving HD compressibility while retaining most detail

[Boulder]

Has anyone found a good way to improve compressibility of 1080P encodes while keeping as much detail as possible? I have tried the various contra-sharpening methods and standard MDegrainX stuff but there seems to be quite a lot of detail loss. On DVD sources they work very well but there's not that much detail to spare. On good quality HD sources the detail loss is much more apparent even with light settings.

[SubPixie]

I guess Didée will chime in and provide a much better reply than mine but you might want to try Spresso() even though the compressibility gain is pretty subtle.

[Didée]

There's nothing particular to 1080p sources. If something works well for DVD sources, then think about your 1080p being something (similar like) 3x2 DVD sources stacked together. Now - what?

Increase compressibility of 1080p Saving Private Ryan? One ballgame.
Increase compressibility of 1080p Avatar? A completely different ballgame.
Increase compressibility of 1080 Big Buck Bunny? Yet another ballgame.

You should know those simple facts. It's all about the characteristics of each specific source. The resolution is mostly irrelevant in the first place (except for computing complexity, of course.)

[Boulder]

Of course the fact of "source matters" is very common to me :) My main concern is that I am not certain if the solution for low resolutions is as effective when it comes to higher resolutions or if there is an adaptive method. This point came up when I tried my hacks in HD encodes for the first time :) It also seems that in many HD sources, the grain plays a bigger part in making things look sharp and detailed (due to smaller grain size compared to the actual shapes, don't know?)

[7ekno]

My favourite for studio added grain, but non animated 1080p source (almost any Bluray without extensive CGI) is MCTemporalDenoise(setting="low", gpu=true) if any obvious banding, throw in an enhance=true ...

7ek

[nibus]

Also with MCTD you can throw in a (stabilize=true) which will use TTempSmooth and help to calm noisy static areas an increase compressibility further. In my tests I've found that TTempSmooth alone will increase compressibility by 6-8%, maybe more.

[chainring]

Yep, I've been having very good luck with MCTD at low settings, and after messing around with SetMTMode quite a bit I finally have it running at close to double the frame rate it was without.

[Boulder]

Thank you for the suggestions, I'll experiment with things over the weekend as I seem to have some extra spare time.

Is there a way to contra-sharpen or restore removed noise using different settings for different frequency levels? Or do it the Soothe way - "keep xx percent of the change"? With MDegrainX, sometimes even limit=1 is a bit too much.

[Ghitulescu]

My favourite for studio added grain, ...
Speaking of which, I understood from the papers of blu-ray assoc that the "added grain" is indeed added for "authentic cinema feeling". Without implementing details, I am not sure whether they referred to "adding" as a layer, after compression (think of Photoshop), or adding as part of the image, before the compression. The second case (part of the image) is pretty obvious in its nature, and thus it won't deserve any mentioning.

Now the question: is it possible to remove the artificial added noise layer (first case) without reencoding the main/original picture? Has anyone a deeper knowledge of this issue?