Read errors right after burning the DVD

[Granjow]

We have Sony DVD-R here which are recorded in a video recorder (from TV). Some DVDs show read errors right after they have been recorded – meaning that neither ImgBurn nor dd conv=noerror can create an image of them, they hang for good on a sector.

Now my questions:

Why does this happen? Is the recorder too old, or are those faulty DVD-R?
Can the errors be fixed somehow? I tried dd-ing the first part, skipping the bad sectors, dd-ing the second part, and concatenating them into a new iso. VLC simply stops the video where I omitted the bad sectors (even if I insert zeros instead).


thanks,
Granjow

[Ghitulescu]

Try isobuster in junction with a not-so new LG DVD-burner.

[hello_hello]

Sounds like the writer isn't burning very good quality discs and where a normal DVD player will probably just skip over unreadable sectors when playing the disc, a ripping program won't.

There's possibly no fixing the discs you've already recorded, although some drives are better at reading "problem" discs than others. I've literally ripped DVDs in the past where I've had to use multiple DVD drives to get a complete rip of the whole disc.
If you have access to another DVD drive in a different PC etc, you could try a different drive if keeping the current discs is important. You might get lucky, you might not. As the discs aren't copy protected you might try DVD Decrypter as it'll make multiple attempts at reading bad sectors (I'm not sure how the program you're using handles them).

For future recordings it'd pay to try a different brand of discs. Try a quality brand such as Verbatim. I think Sony discs should be of a decent quality, although I'm not actually sure which dye they use these days, but sometimes a recorder will just not play nice with the dye on some discs while it's fine with others. If changing discs doesn't fix the problem then maybe it's time for a new recorder.

You can read about the different dyes used on different discs here:
Who Really Makes the Disc? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm)
I pretty sure ImgBurn will tell you which dye is used on the Sony discs you're currently using.

[Ghitulescu]

This is an extremely outdated list. The only changes that have been made in the past few years are located at the top, namely they acknowledged the JVC brand (which acquired Taiyo Yuden recently) and the bankruptcy of Daxon (which indeed manufactured as OEM for Sony but for 8x, which again shows how old the source is).

It also depends on where the OP is located.

I haven't seen in Germany Sonies made in Taiwan for years, in the last 5 or 6 years all Sony media sold in Germany through official channels (no eBay, no online-Chinese-backed-up shops etc.) have been manufactured in India by MBI (I've even seen them lately bearing the MBI MID instead of Sony). Despite reports (like those of hello_hello) of Verbatim MIT, Verbatim embarked into the BD boat, after trying less successfully to convert its facilities to BDRs (they invented the LTH disc and process), so newer batches of Verbatim DVDRs are made equally in India, equally by MBI, both for SL and DL.

My opinion is that the drive is defective, probably of over-use (if not faulty or susceptible to fail right from the box, a Monday gear - if you think the drive was not used extensively). Putting the recorder in a non-ventilated place would increase the temperature inside raising the chances for bad burns. It may also be that the drive doesn't cope well with the new MIDs (I said that Sony changed the MID to MBI lately) so a FW upgrade might be advisable. Try to locate the FW at sony's homepage, only if you can't find any you may try to use a in-internet-floating FW for the actual drive. Be careful, as the drive is bound to the mainboard, so any change in its ID will render your recorder useless (unless you have the service manual, the service disc and the service remote).
Safer and cheaper would be a new recorder ;)

[hello_hello]

This is an extremely outdated list.

While I do wonder if it's the list which is outdated, as the dye used on discs can change, and as the guide specifically mentions the change to the dye used on Sony discs, I suggested the OP check to see which dye is being used on his discs.

It also depends on where the OP is located.

And the type of discs you might see would be effected by your location also, I assume?

Despite reports (like those of hello_hello) of Verbatim MIT, Verbatim embarked into the BD boat, after trying less successfully to convert its facilities to BDRs (they invented the LTH disc and process), so newer batches of Verbatim DVDRs are made equally in India, equally by MBI, both for SL and DL.

According the the guide, in regard to MCC discs:
"Production outsourced to MBI, CMC, Prodisc and FTI. Not an issue."
Why are you so hung up on discs manufactured in India?
I guess the discs I see might be effected by my location also, but I've only seen MCC Verbatim discs made in Taiwan where I am.

The guide specifically mentions you should stay away from the Verbatim “Life Series” or “Value Series” discs. I probably should have pointed that out when I mentioned Verbatim in my previous post.

Anyway, regardless of the brand of discs, the guide can still be used as an assistant to buying discs which use a decent quality dye. In the OP's case, if he's only recently having problems with Sony discs and can confirm the problem only started when buying Sony discs which use a different dye (he could check some older discs which read okay to see if they use a different dye) then it'd pay to try some different discs which use a different/good quality dye before blaming the burner.

[Ghitulescu]

You're the luckiest guy on earth to still have access to something that is no longer produced. An archaeologist I presume.

And the authors of the outdated article contradict themselves in placing "original" MBIs in the second class, together maybe with made-for-sony and made-for-panasonic discs, also by MBI, while the made-for-verbatim MBIs are considered to be premium. Of course, it doesn't matter either that Prodisc and CMC are placed again in the second class, Verbatim triumphs again. Oh, please. Verbatim is today only expensive crap, at least in respect with DVDR. The best Verbatims ever I had were manufactured by TY, a "study" extended over for now 10 years.

I said nothing bad about MBI per se, I said that Verbatim switched over a less-than-premium quality manufacturer, while keeping its price tag. Who cares, anyway? People that burn at 24x will see no difference anyway in quality, equally bad burns. You know, a Ferrari is as speedier as a Yugo in a traffic jam. :) To me, this is an issue.

And I also wonder how can one manage to classify a DVD in the second quality grade class, when half of its discs in a spindle are bad burns? That is crap, not second class. Who'd buy 3rd class anyway if they will gonna spend time burning them only to fill up the trash? Can't they simply buy them and discard them immediately in the trash bin, ecologically? :)
For example, out of a 100 spindle of media, 1st class discs may kick out a few bad discs (0% to 5% of the media may have playback imperfections or be outright bad burns). The 2nd class media may have anywhere from a dozen to a half-spindle of duds. And the 3rd class stuff can be pure trash, with most discs ending up in the local landfill.

The article is fundamentally flawed, as it still carry the "good old time" ballast, mixed up inappropriately with new info. Has anyone else (besides me :) ) still have Pioneer media? 70-80% of the MIDs refer to 4x up to 8x media. Not even all MIDs for 16x media are to be found today.

[hello_hello]

You're the luckiest guy on earth to still have access to something that is no longer produced. An archaeologist I presume.

No, you're the luckiest guy on earth to be able to continue to believe something in total contradiction to reality. A conveyor of fiction, I presume.

Of course, it doesn't matter either that Prodisc and CMC are placed again in the second class, Verbatim triumphs again. Oh, please. Verbatim is today only expensive crap, at least in respect with DVDR. The best Verbatims ever I had were manufactured by TY, a "study" extended over for now 10 years.

Of course, it doesn't matter that I specifically referred to the MCC discs and mentioned the “Life Series” or “Value Series” should be avoided. Your TY Verbatims manufactured in the dark ages aren't really relevant and as I've previously shown I still get very good quality burns from recently manufactured MCC discs contrary to your unproven claims the discs are crap.

I said nothing bad about MBI per se, I said that Verbatim switched over a less-than-premium quality manufacturer, while keeping its price tag.

Yes, you invariably find new ways to imply switching manufacturers has reduced the quality without ever being able to show it's true.

Who cares, anyway? People that burn at 24x will see no difference anyway in quality, equally bad burns. You know, a Ferrari is as speedier as a Yugo in a traffic jam. :) To me, this is an issue.

And then you invariably bring up people who burn at 24x as though it's relevant to the discussion. It's not.

The article is fundamentally flawed, as it still carry the "good old time" ballast, mixed up inappropriately with new info.

As opposed to you offering experiences with discs from ten years ago, mixed up inappropriately with newer here-say?

[Granjow]

Thank you for your answers!
It seems that indeed the writer is broken, the number of errorneous DVDs increased strongly towards the end. It is now not used anymore.
The writer has been used a lot. Can lasers break down after some time? Or is it some other electronic part (like the one that moves the laser around) that is not accurate anymore? Regarding Firmware, I will check if there is some available – thanks for the tip. But how (or, better, why,) can a drive be bound to a board? Would it hurt them if I replaced the drive?

But what is the reason for those unreadable sections? When the DVD reader cannot read there, does this then mean that there are no longer 0/1 but something broken at this place? Did the writer maybe forget to switch off its laser for some time?
Also, if there are programs (or players) which can skip bad sectors: Can I simulate bad sectors in an ISO? Replacing these sectors by zeroes did not work, but can I perhaps replace them with some data with an invalid checksum such that the sector is not reported as completely irrecoverably broken but just unreadable (like, for example, scratched)?

I've unfortunately given away all my old DVD drives (together with my PCs), so I cannot try a different drive. Ergo, no old LG anymore (I think I once had one). DVD Decrypter behaves the same way as ImgBurn does (isn't ImgBurn the successor of DVD Decrypter?): It tries reading the sector over and over again even when I tell it to skip unreadable sectors. Same holds for dd.

edit: dvd+rw-mediainfo gives me this information about the Sony DVD-R: (Is there a better way to read out the media information on Linux?)
Mounted Media: 10h, DVD-ROM
Media ID: SONY16D1

I also have some older Memorex here (not used in this recorder):
Mounted Media: 11h, DVD-R Sequential
Media ID: CMC MAG. AM3

And some which were, afair, Verbatims (MCC is Mitsubishi Chemicals Corp.?):
Mounted Media: 11h, DVD-R Sequential
Media ID: MCC 03RG20

If the list is right, then the Sonys are the best I have …

[Ghitulescu]

The red laser lasts for some 500 burning hours, the higher the burning speed, the lesser the life expectancy.
Concerning the bounding of the writer to the board, try to change it if you don't believe me (it won't work even with an identical writer, even taken out from an exact model) :) I would really be glad to find out that I was wrong, but I know I'm not :(.
MCC must give you the best quality, if made in Taiwan (MIT). Sony is the second choice here, unless your burner fits Sonies better than Verbies.
Skipping sectors is always a bad idea, but they're yours, not mines. A second-hand LG (GSA-4xxx) cannot cost a fortune, even on eBay (with shipping costs added).
Good luck.

[setarip_old]

@Granjow

Hi! DVD Decrypter behaves the same way as ImgBurn does (isn't ImgBurn the successor of DVD Decrypter?): It tries reading the sector over and over again even when I tell it to skip unreadable sectors.Set "Retries" to 1 (Default is 20)...