DS Filters for encoding?

[Koepi]

EDIT: Crap deleted due to topic-change ;)

[Koepi]

Well, forget it. I think I found a way how to capture relatively HQ stuff.

Capturing 640x480 with PicVideo MJPEG (I'm lucky, I got the free codec over a year ago) with qual=16, 2fields,...
Before that correcting the brightness/contrast via the "preview with diagram" in virtualdub.
Then fine tuning saturation so that red colour looks good.


Capture the movie.... (2 hours will take up ~ 8 GB).

That video will be ok, but very noisy (in my case at least).

Then going to encoding:

First of all, deinterlace with blend fields (I have PAL here).
After that, crop the black bars away if there are any.

Then I found a fine filter for vdub:
http://home.earthlink.net/~casaburi/download/

has a brilliant temporal cleaner - it works WAY better than the vdub internal one.

I set it to process the data in YUV colour space, treshold for blending 10, treshold for pixel lock 6, check the "Enable luminance locking mode".

(On a second trial I had to use 12 respectively 8 here...)

If necessary, resize the movie now to the desired size. (e.g. i had to crop to 636x348 and did a precise bicubic (-0,75) resize to 640x352).

After that you'll have a VERY slow frame rate (I had 6-7 fps on my duron 700), but the picture is nice and compressable!

I hope this helps,

regards,
Koepi

[Ookami]

> First of all, deinterlace with blend fields (I have PAL here).

Then why do you capture at 640x480 , you should better capture the full vertical resolution (even better capture at full PAL)...

Don't know if you know this already, if not:

http://pub6.ezboard.com/fultimatecapture.showMessage?topicID=1765.topic

[Koepi]

Since the bt787a can do propper capturing of 640x480 (I first thought the interlacing would be wrong etc. - but it works pretty well!) I do use it.
I use PicVideo mjpeg, and I have _max_ 10GB for capturing - so I have to use a higher compression. 16 is ok, no Blocks yet - and no "oversharped" borders around the objects . It's the best compromise I found yet.
(Data rate is too high with higher quality settings).
I tried the denoise filter you suggested as well, but after watching 20-30 pictures with different values I dropped it. The temporal cleaner just works way better, the colour information stays more intact (my TV signal is VERY noise if I didn't mention that).

Maybe you want to give my method a try and see for yourself if the result is ok or not in your terms :)
(No offense here!)

Regards,
Koepi

[bb]

Unfortunately I experienced too much ghosting when using the temporal cleaner. Dynamic Noise Reduction (Donald Graft's scriptable version preferred) gives much better results, although it does not eliminate all of the noise. I use a threshold of 8 most of the time.

If you capture PAL, not NTSC, then I strongly recommend to capture at a vertical resolution of 576. You can decrease the horizontal resolution to your needs, though, but full vertical res is a MUST if you need to deinterlace.

bb

[Koepi]

Ok, I'll test once more with higher resolutions though it needs too much data so I can't capture e.g. a 2 hour movie (maybe lowering the qual. level of mjpeg is helping here, but at qual 15 and lower there are noticable artifacts like blocks and noise around objects...).

I tried DNR filter as well and the results were more than frustrating. Can you give the temporal cleaner with "my" setup a try and tell me if it looks better for you? And please, take version 0.5 from that site above, earlier versions didn't work this good.

I tried capturing a 45 minutes TV show yesterday (TV Total) and the results were amazing (I compressed that to XviD, data rate like I would try to fit 90 minutes on to 1 640mb CDR), the output was resized to 512x384.

I'll see if there is a way I can capture full res. with adequate data rate and if the results are better then... (bt878 is _really_ doing a good job on downscaling to 640x480, even if I thought otherwise myself).

Regards,
Koepi

[BITS]

Im sooo new at capturing video it's sick...but are we talking about processing like during the capture???or we talking about after the capture??? if we are talking about during i have not a clue what filters to use during this...is there one that can elimate noise pretty good during capture.?? If we are talking about afterwards ive used all but 6 internal filters in the last 3 days and i only use the smart smooother now to clean up. That thing is GOD LIKE..if you got the power. I used to use the temporal smoother some of you are typing about but i too experienced MASS ghosting with just alittle filtering.
Also i find that the Dynamic Noise Reduction (MMX)(Steven Don and Avery) to be equal if not better to the lower settings of temporal smoother that dont seem to ghost. Another combination I find to be good is the 2:1 reduction (interal) then the blur (internal) followed by Sharpen (by20) (internal). Of course i use the resize filter second if i am using the smart smoother at anything above the settings of diam 5, str 30 because either wise it just takew way too long. Of course i use the deinterlace - area based v1.2 (Gunnar Thalin) first before all filters because i figure why perform any type of filtering on a interlaced source when i can filter the final source which is deinterlaced(Im only guessing here if i should deiterlace last please tell me ;p). Anyways...im trying to cleam up my source most of all right now..if i could clean that up all i would have to do is deinterlasce and that's it.

im editing now because since i posted i played with it...seems i better off resizing first for my needs.(Scooby-Doo)

[bb]

@Koepi:
Hmm, maybe you used DNR after resize? I always use it before, because resizing itself reduces noise (if you decrease resolution, of course). It's comparable to the effect of a spatial smoother, no temporal effect. I use 640xXXX resolutions; if you target 512xXXX, then the denoising effect should be stronger. Temporal smoothing helps increasing the compressability, but I don't like the ghosting.

@BITS:
ALWAYS deinterlace before any other filters. Deinterlacers need full vertical resolution and an unmodified source in order to operate correctly. You'll probably like Donald Graft's DNR. It's the same filter with scriptability added, i.e. you don't lose your settings when you Save Processing Settings in VDub.

bb

[BITS]

where do i get Donald Grafts' DNR....and how does temporal smoothing help increase compressability...should i use it to make my files smaller with just alittle increase in encdoing time?? what are some good settings for donald's DNR??basically what would be overkill

[Koepi]

@bb:

Nope, resizing is the last task i use, "real" processing is done with mostly full resolution (e.g. denoise after cropping, saves a lot of time and i didn't notice a difference between denoising before or after cropping).

@all:
ATM I test encode a clip I captured at 768x576 (full PAL). I had to use MJPEG with 4/1/1 and qual=15, gave me around 700k/s for that video. IMHO it doesn't look too well now, 640x480 seemed a little bit better...
Well, let's see what happens to the final avi in (just deinterlaced, cropped and then temporal cleaned with default settings + luma lock) 752x432...

Koepi

[Ookami]

Err, what denoise filter did I recommend? AFAIK, I only recommended the procedures from Genesis (read in the Ultimateboard knowledge base and capture forum) and the usage of Hawks capture guide 1.1 (you should tweak it a little bit, since some things have been changed; like, rather smart deinterlace is now the area based etc.)... Sadly, only the version with the fxVHS filter is online (at Q-bert's), the latest isn't :-( .

IMO, you should forget capturing at full PAL with such a low settings. Just try a few short clips (e.g. full PAL huffy vs. 640x480 MJPEG at 16 etc.)... If you're satisfied with 640x480 MJPEG, then why should you care about others opinions?

BTW, when I capture at 640x480 I'm loosing a big part of the picture, so I don't use it... And I've done my share in MJPEG capturing, so I've tried your method before you did it. Hihihi... IMO, it depends on what you want to do... I even did direct Divx ;-) capturing :eek: .

As far as I know, you understand german, so I really recommend you to read the excellent postings from "Genesis", "Kika", "Der Karl", "Hawk", "the Fish; VDfilters", "Ted66" and all the others...

You should ignore the blatant posting of links and the boring copy and paste stuff from the bloke that calls himself "okami111" (LOL)...

So, I've done enough advertizing for Q-bert's board...

Cheers,

Mijo.

Originally posted by Koepi
@all:
ATM I test encode a clip I captured at 768x576 (full PAL). I had to use MJPEG with 4/1/1 and qual=15, gave me around 700k/s for that video. IMHO it doesn't look too well now, 640x480 seemed a little bit better...
Well, let's see what happens to the final avi in (just deinterlaced, cropped and then temporal cleaned with default settings + luma lock) 752x432...

Koepi

[Koepi]

Hi ookami,

if you priv-mail me @ de_koepi@lycos.de I'd like to send you a 31MB sample video I captured today. It's encoded with XviD, the size is calculated that way that a 90 minutes movie would suite onto 1 CDR media.
If you're interested I can tell you further details in an answer.

Maybe I should've done a resize before, but I wanted to test it this way.

Tonight I'll capture "Was guckst Du?", maybe opening a kind of a collection for that. Then I've some material to make further tests with.

Best Regards,
Koepi

[Ookami]

:eek: 31 MB! I'm on a poor, slow, dial up in Croatia... Everything above 5-6 MB is overkill! I'm always interested in procedures, especially from people that are experienced like you. Wonder why you don't use Nandub for your captures? At least you should know to use it :) ...

I've tested Xvid a bit, but will wait 'till a stable beta appears.

What do you mean with "I didn't resized it before"?

Cheers,

Ookami.

Originally posted by Koepi
Hi ookami,

if you priv-mail me @ de_koepi@lycos.de I'd like to send you a 31MB sample video I captured today. It's encoded with XviD, the size is calculated that way that a 90 minutes movie would suite onto 1 CDR media.
If you're interested I can tell you further details in an answer.

Maybe I should've done a resize before, but I wanted to test it this way.

Tonight I'll capture "Was guckst Du?", maybe opening a kind of a collection for that. Then I've some material to make further tests with.

Best Regards,
Koepi

[Koepi]

Resize means that I didn't resize it to anything that makes sense but just took the full 752x432 resolution. Resizing could have helped the quality big time, but it's amazing already the way it's now. :)

Cheers,
Koepi

[Ookami]

Ah, how about posting your procedures? I'm waiting :) .

Cheers,

Ookie.

Originally posted by Koepi
Resize means that I didn't resize it to anything that makes sense but just took the full 752x432 resolution. Resizing could have helped the quality big time, but it's amazing already the way it's now. :)

Cheers,
Koepi

[Koepi]

Uh, well, progress...
I just coded a bit XviD so not much testing on capturing until now...
But I tried a ~30 minutes capture directly from the running TV program yesterday @ 768x576. It gave me massive framedrops :-( (about 1200 frames lost - it's no problem to keep the thing in sync with vdub, but it's still annoying).

I'll try 640x576 today on the first Bud Spencer&Terence Hill movie.
I didn't recognize before how much detail gets lost if you reduce the y-resolution, it's simply amazing how much information stays intact if you capture XXx576 :)

Regards,
Koepi

[Koepi]

Further progress:

Since i hacked up XviD to include my beloved nandub settings (well, ok, kf DRF is hradcoded by now ;) ), I#m at the 3rd encoding session of that bud spencer&terence hill movie, TV captured, noisy signal, old film material with many "corns"...
So it's a hard one :)

But this is my way to go from now on:

Capture with 640x576, MJPEG qual 15, 4/1/1 setting.
2 hours take up ~7.5GB.
This results in a movie that has to be filtered massively.
ATM I use deinterlace, cropping, temporal cleaner (latest version works like charme), both tresholds at 10, lock at 6 or 8, and using luma lock as well.
after that a bicubic resize to 640xYY since the aspect ratio is wrong with capturing 640x576 ;)

Nearly no framedrops, maybe 10-15 frames lost all in all for 2 hours.

After filtering I'd like to encode that stuff into mpeg2 and sell it as DVD, since the quality is amazing ;)
But I haven't enough space on my HD :-/

So far my experiences,

Regards,
Koepi