Smooth PAL playback on 60Hz monitors?

[Weirdo]

I'm trying to find a 50Hz-capable monitor for smooth PAL TV and various emulators playback, but they seem very hard to find. Is there a way to somehow accelerate PAL content, say through a DVBViewer/ffdshow/avisynth combination, for smooth playback at least? -Thanks

edit: Overlooked the "Capturing and Editing Video" part, so this is possibly the wrong section to post, sorry.

[Mug Funky]

if you're in Athens (i'm not sure if Greece uses some variant on PAL or SECAM or something else), your worst-case scenario is driving to a PAL country and buying a TV. there's plenty to choose from in your region...

don't pretty much all flat TVs support anything and everything? or are some artificially locked into stupid refresh rates?

certainly in Australia you'd be utterly unable to find a TV that doesn't support NTSC, PAL and SECAM and everything in between. if you could get a 405 line signal into them, i'm sure they'd play that as well.

[Weirdo]

Thanks, but I'm talking about computer monitors. I think the vast majority of monitors, even those with an inbuilt tv tuner ("TV Monitors") will only sync to 60Hz with external devices (DVI-HDMI). They play PAL TV just fine but that's not the issue, I'm looking for smooth playback through the PC.

[Didée]

Hehe, the same problem I faced 1.5 years ago, when I did a PC upgrade alongside with my personal leap from (beloved) CRT technology to (still hated) LCD technology.

I can't give much actual recommendations, you simply need to look around high and low, and watch for the technical specs carefully. There definetly are quite a few monitors that can do refreshs other than 60Hz. Though supposably, you shouldn't look in the $99 segment ...


For me, the corner points were
- NO TN panel (PVA preferred)
- NOT 16:9 aspect, but ultimately 16:10
- capable of 24/48 Hz (NTSC film) and 25/50 Hz (PAL), besides the basic 60Hz

... which in the end led me to an Eizo FX2431. It does all that has to, and reasonably good for the most part ... but nonetheless, "LCD and me" still are no friends. Hoping for OLED to evolve and mature quickly.

[patrick_]

Look at the Fujitsu P23T-6 IPS (Led backlight) 16:9 - that's my screen :D it's a lot cheaper than Didée's EIZO ;) but doesn't support 24/48. Supported rates: 25i, 29i, 30i, 50p, 59p, 60p

[Weirdo]

Thanks for the suggestions, indeed the Eizo is way too expensive. The Fujitsu looks good, but rather difficult to find here. I'll double-check some of LG's TV/Monitors which may support 50Hz.

[Didée]

@patrick_

Seems like a bargain. Pity that it's only a half-capable device. No (functioning) 24/48/72 Hz, so not judder-free for 24p film.

(Between you and me - I wasn't too pleased to spend 900 bucks, either. But see ... spending money annoys one single time. Spending less money can annoy every single day afterwards.) ;)

BTW, just in case the PC is also used for working ...

16:9 1920x1080
http://thumbnails46.imagebam.com/14831/aff5c8148300129.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/aff5c8148300129)

16:10 1920x1200
http://thumbnails55.imagebam.com/14831/fd5b2d148300127.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/fd5b2d148300127)

Layered:
http://thumbnails50.imagebam.com/14831/eb9aba148300118.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/eb9aba148300118)


A Swiss army knife costs alittle more than a simple kitchen knife. That's how it is....

[patrick_]

One can't spend more money than he has :(

Weirdo, you can buy it in Germany (lot's of stores send within EU). They're a lot cheaper there than in the rest of Europe. Right now the P23T-6 IPS starts at 288€.
If you don't care about led backlight, the P24W-6 is 16:10 and starts at 429,06€ (prices from idealo.de)

The Eizo cost 871,36€ !!! (as usually when buying here, 1$ = 1€)

[2Bdecided]

I asked this same question a while back...
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144224
..some good+cheap answers, but that was 2009.

TBH, it's getting quite hard to find a TV that does 50Hz properly. Some very good TVs don't work as well with 50Hz as 60Hz (e.g. some Panasonic plasmas), and some even convert everything to 60Hz (e.g. some Samsung LCDs). For video work, finding a good TV and connecting the PC through HDMI is one way to go.

Cheers,
David.

[Lyris]

don't pretty much all flat TVs support anything and everything? or are some artificially locked into stupid refresh rates?

In Europe and the (former?) PAL countries, yes, they'll play anything: 50hz, 60hz, 24hz etc.

In the US, 50hz support is usually artificially(?) locked out - perhaps to deter cheap imports of US-priced TVs to Europe.

[Weirdo]

For small sizes, the limits between TV's and monitors are a bit unclear. Again, even here in PAL countries, I doubt that most cheap TV monitors (which play PAL just fine), will easily accept 50Hz from a PC.
Donwloaded Powerstrip and forced a 50Hz rate on my Dell 2007WFP. It seems to accept it, monitor menu reports 50Hz and so does ReClock, but motion still appears very jerky to me: no changes.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4677/50hzro.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50hzro.jpg)

[Ghitulescu]

For small sizes, the limits between TV's and monitors are a bit unclear. Again, even here in PAL countries, I doubt that most cheap TV monitors (which play PAL just fine), will easily accept 50Hz from a PC.
Donwloaded Powerstrip and forced a 50Hz rate on my Dell 2007WFP. It seems to accept it, monitor menu reports 50Hz and so does ReClock, but motion still appears very jerky to me: no changes.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4677/50hzro.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50hzro.jpg)

There is a distinction between "accepts 50Hz" and "natively displays 50Hz". From what I know, most older (how old??) LCDs were driven at frequencies of and over 60Hz regardless of the input signal. An engineer told me that's because of the inherent way the liquid crystals work. Now it seems that there are LCD panels that can do 24Hz natively.
And even if newer models might employ a new technique, it's still highly probable that the lower end segment doesn't use it.

[IanB]

A possible investigation criteria might be "support for 3D games". Support for the active glasses technology require support for high frame rates, so you may be able to lock in at 150Hz or 200Hz.

[2Bdecided]

There is a distinction between "accepts 50Hz" and "natively displays 50Hz".Yes, quite a few TVs in "PAL" countries run at 60Hz or multiples thereof. Modern ones use their motion interpolation functions to hide the fact, but turn them off and you can see the horrible judder on what should be smooth 50i.

Some do things properly. It's not always a limitation of the panel, but laziness when taking an American or Japanese product and adapting it to the European market.

Cheers,
David.