1st of August

[Ghitulescu]

Not 1st of April.

Is this a joke http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1517498#post1517498?

Or are they stupid, as people tend to think? Or worse, they think people are stupid?

[Vurbal]

Not 1st of April.

Is this a joke http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1517498#post1517498?
No, it's not a joke.

Or are they stupid, as people tend to think? Or worse, they think people are stupid?
Who is the 'they' you're talking about?

[mike20021969]

Who is the 'they' you're talking about?
The Government (probably).

[Vurbal]

The Government (probably).
Then it should be obvious. They're (mostly) not stupid, but when it comes to something like copyright law they're certainly clueless.

[mariush]

Funny, Ghitulescu... But if you're Romanian (and I'm saying this based on your username), as far as I know the copyright laws in Romania are exactly like that, not allowing format shifting. People completely ignoring them and nobody enforcing them is another story...

[Ghitulescu]

For people that didn't understand what I was saying.

UK is part of the EU. And in EU there is a similar directive to the DMCA, prohibiting the circumvention of copyprotection measures. And since almost all DVDs are copyprotected (this includes CSS as well), this is a bad joke. Because any EU directive has precedence over national right, as soon as it's transposed into a national law. It's called harmonisation :) and it was already implemented.

EDIT: It may be useful for MP3, now that they are mostly not DRMed - I just realised. It still applies to AppleStore and several other online stores, and to any audio CDs pressed bearing a CP.

[J_Darnley]

The EU directives have to be implemented in local law, this is where variation comes in. Didn't Sweden's law state that if it was trivial to bypass/break an encryption method, it was legal to do so?

Since everyone is saying that it will be legal to rip DVDs, I do have to wonder whether the encryption will play a factor.

[Ghitulescu]

Having local laws that invalidate/bypass/circumvent (even partially) the EU directive (as a national law) renders the whole purpose of an EU directive futile.

The example I gave once was that of a free admittance in a museum, whereas the touching the handle of the door to open it's illegal .
That's worse than a 95years copyright since this will eventually expire, but the circumvention of technical mean does not expire.

[Vurbal]

For people that didn't understand what I was saying.

UK is part of the EU. And in EU there is a similar directive to the DMCA, prohibiting the circumvention of copyprotection measures. And since almost all DVDs are copyprotected (this includes CSS as well), this is a bad joke. Because any EU directive has precedence over national right, as soon as it's transposed into a national law. It's called harmonisation :) and it was already implemented.

EDIT: It may be useful for MP3, now that they are mostly not DRMed - I just realised. It still applies to AppleStore and several other online stores, and to any audio CDs pressed bearing a CP.

I see what you're saying now. On one hand, no it's not as big a deal for newer formats given the rights content producers and distributors are given under the EUCD. At the same time I would argue that it's still a step in the right direction to get the principle officially recognized, even if there's still a long way to go.

[Ghitulescu]

It looks like that, but I'm afraid it's just dust in the eyes. Most people would think like this, but it's wrong.
The copyright term must be shortened (instead they prolonged it), as today any respectable author (and the studios/editors behind him/her) get many times the investment within the first weeks (year).
The copy tax on virgin media and on recorders should have been made illegal - you pay the studios a compensation for something you cannot legally do (one cannot legally buy SW to copy protected works, yes, one can download the SW, but it's risky task in some countries)
The requirement for the CP mechanisms to cease functioning after the lapse of the copyright, and to allow the fair use concept (under some jurisdiction one can circumvent these technical means in order to exercise this right)

and so on

These would be measures to be taken ...

[Vurbal]

It looks like that, but I'm afraid it's just dust in the eyes. Most people would think like this, but it's wrong.
The copyright term must be shortened (instead they prolonged it), as today any respectable author (and the studios/editors behind him/her) get many times the investment within the first weeks (year).
The copy tax on virgin media and on recorders should have been made illegal - you pay the studios a compensation for something you cannot legally do (one cannot legally buy SW to copy protected works, yes, one can download the SW, but it's risky task in some countries)
The requirement for the CP mechanisms to cease functioning after the lapse of the copyright, and to allow the fair use concept (under some jurisdiction one can circumvent these technical means in order to exercise this right)

and so on

These would be measures to be taken ...

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

All the things you list are important. I would add the standard set by the US Supreme Court (in the Betamax case) that all non-commercial copying is fair use unless the rights holder can show why it shouldn't be. However, establishing a basic fair use right, no matter how symbolic, is necessary before you can even begin debating the legitimacy of the EUCD. If you are not allowed to copy in the first place, it doesn't create a legal dillema to also disallow the bypassing of DRM to copy.

[ronnylov]

The EU directives have to be implemented in local law, this is where variation comes in. Didn't Sweden's law state that if it was trivial to bypass/break an encryption method, it was legal to do so?

Since everyone is saying that it will be legal to rip DVDs, I do have to wonder whether the encryption will play a factor.

In Sweden it is legal to bypass/break a copy protection method if you need it in order to play a media that you have purchased. But it is not allowed to make copies of the copy protected media (other than the copy you need to be able to play it if your purchased original does not work).

As an example you are allowed to make an unprotected copy of a music CD if the protected original does not work in your CD player.

See http://www.regeringen.se/content/1/c6/11/20/06/358bbc7c.pdf

[Ghitulescu]

Well, in Germany is not. Before that EU directive, it was allowed to do it, if for private purposes. Even the DVDshrink had a version for Germany (it doesn't contain CSS code), EAC, whose author is a German, had to drop some features in order to comply with this new law.
Bottom line, with this new proposal, UK reaches the point where Germany was downgraded. I wonder how do they sell recorders of any type in the UK, since a news anchorwoman had been recently fired for mentioning the word RECORD in the same phrase as MOVIE.
Yes, I know about Sweden.

[shevegen]

There is only but one solution:

Destroy the whole music mafia.

Do not buy any of their copy-protected shit because they DO take your rights away.

A friend once said that he bought an Audio CD but he couldn't play it in his car radio. Since that day he now uses mp3 files without any protection shit whatsoever and no more has any problems.

As for the laws, we are the internet generation. We are not idiots. We know exactly when a politican is working for big corporations and into his own pocket.

Indirect Democracy is a joke.

You guys are fighting the same old war, with the same old tactic - catering towards politicans who can do what they want.

But real democracy does not need politicans at all. It needs the people and them able to reach a consensus.

When this has been reached, you won't find widespread corruption anymore either, because it would not work - you would have to bribe EVERYONE who can cast a vote directly. And this system is exactly the one that needs to be implemented.