I cannot get sounds of 7 speakers when using mpc-hc but it works when testing Windows

[shaolin95]

Hi!
Not sure what is going on.
I can test the 7 speakers via the Windows Playback device configuration and also in the Creative Labs settings panel (x-fi) but when I play any movie in mpc-hc no matter what version, the sound is only coming from the fronts, center and the to rear ones...nothing from the side ones.

I thought that by having set the speaker configuration as 7.1 the program will "create" a 7 speaker mix out of a 5 speaker soundtrack.
I am using ffdshow audio or for some sound tracks the arcsoft DTSHD plugin. I have tried with and without reclock.

Another strange thing is the bass management.
If I do the Windows playback device configuration and set the speakers as FULL RANGE so that x-fi is the one doing the bass management...it does not get me any sound on the subwoofer. I end up having to select all speakers as not full range for windows then us the bass management in X-Fi. All such a mess.
Any clarification and assistance is greatly appreciated.

If you need more information , please ask.

[JanWillem32]

There's no built-in up-mixer for extrapolating audio channels in MPC-HC. There's only a simple channel mapper (which can't even output empty channels).
Many audio chips have a few DSP options (or use the CPU to do it for them). Such options do allow up-mixing. Some modes only feature up-mixing to 5 or 6 channels, some can do 7 or 8, but only from stereo sources, and some can do the type of up-mixing you are looking for: from 5.1 to 7.1. What up-mixing type did you select in the Creative Labs settings panel?
Note that if you're using ASIO mode, the driver won't interfere with the output (no bass management, no up-mixing or other transformations). On the other hand, a software DSP (external program) in ASIO mode can do a great job at up-mixing.
Bass crossover, or in case of somewhat larger speakers, sub-bass crossover is normally disabled in software when full range speakers are selected in the control panel. As far as I know, the Creative Labs settings panel also has a slider for the cut-off frequency for crossover to the LFE channel (which is often directly linked to the subwoofer).
If you specifically want to test 7.1 channel mapping, I have one audio test in my development folder (see signature). The other audio file can be used as an accuracy test for up-mixing from 2 channels (the first sound is panned from right, full back to left).

[shaolin95]

I just selected 7.1 speaker in the creative labs panel. Anything else I need to check? How can I tell if I am using Asio. This is windows 7 64 bits.
Any recommendations for that DSP software?

[JanWillem32]

ASIO/WASAPI is used by "MPC Audio Renderer" (available in the Output tab of the Options panel). It needs a bit of TLC from developers before the code for it is going to work properly, as it's currently a bit flawed.
There are other solutions that allow connecting ASIO/WASAPI/other DSP stuff through the old WaveOut interface. I've been using a solution like that for a long time already, and I'm very satisfied with it. It does require some extra attention, as not all programs can interact with WaveOut. I need to switch sometimes by starting or exiting the DSP host program.
To keep things simple for the moment, I have two questions. Did the channel mapping work correctly with the 7.1 test file in my directory? Does basic up-mixing from 2- and 6-channel audio work well now?

[shaolin95]

I am going some as the flu got me so I will try to test the file today.
I will post back.
Thanks!

[shaolin95]

OK so new information.
I downloaded a program called j river media center and I got sound from the side speakers.
Now comes in other interesting part.
If I use our 7.1 file then I do get 7 channel audio from all 7 speakers with mpc-hc BUT the rear right surround indentification comes out of the side right speaker and the right side surround comes out of the rear right surround.
Yet in the Creative Labs control panel the speakers are correctly indenftified.
Also I got a DTS HD airplane video moving around and that one also sounded on all speakers and with correct speaker placement so perhaps is some specifi audio formats?
This is quite confusing isnt it?

[JanWillem32]

I've taken a look at it again, and indeed the channels are reversed compared to what most decoders output.
I encoded the file a long time ago, using ANSI/CEA-863-A mapping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound#Channel_identification .
Microsoft mapping is reverse, except for 6.1 (a bit odd): http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee415748%28v=vs.85%29.aspx . Most decoders that can do 7.1 use this format, so I've re-mapped my test file. For those interested, it's available for download. The re-encode with better settings also shaved off 200 kB.
After a quick search, the up-mixer inside the Creative driver package is called CMSS. It's not enabled by default. Does it work properly for you?

[shaolin95]

Ah so I need to have CMSS On...interesting I always thought it was for headphone or stereo stuff. I will need to check but right now the sounds has become a mess. Do you think it would be easier to somehow reset the windows decoder settings (if that is possible) to start from zero?

[JanWillem32]

With resetting settings which ones do you mean? Do you mean the settings in the Windows sound control panel, the settings in the Creative Labs settings panel or something else? If it's third-party software, you can usually only get a reset if you uninstall the program first.

[shaolin95]

Guess I mean resetting the filters to the way it comes when you just install Windows ..not even sure if that makes sense. It seems to be some filters are all wrong or have higher merits or who knows lol
Sorry I am very confused with this.
I was about to install Windows on a new partition just to test it.
I am not sure but maybe this all started when I tried to add the arcsoft dts hd plug in which was working fine but all of the sudden months later this happened.

[JanWillem32]

DXVAChecker can unregister Directshow filters if that's what you want (using the DSF/MFT Viewer). Reinstalling some filters after that should be easy. Note that DXVAChecker x64 handles x64 filters and DXVAChecker x86 handles x86 filters. I often add and remove filters to test.

[Midzuki]

I encoded the file a long time ago, using ANSI/CEA-863-A mapping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound#Channel_identification .
Microsoft mapping is reverse, except for 6.1 (a bit odd): http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee415748%28v=vs.85%29.aspx .

Isn't that "ANSI/CEA-863-A" a recent invention, whereas Microsoft's "Wave Format Extensible" is older? :)

[shaolin95]

Your new flac file sounds perfect yet my movies are a mess :(


I am considering just doing 5.1 since is not like my theater room is huge plus I only have 3 chairs for viewing and I mostly watch on my own :-)
Then I may try installing Windows 7 again to see if it works on a fresh install.

[JanWillem32]

@Midzuki: It seems both standards have been made a long time ago, but I can't exactly find when the decision for this kind of ordering was made for both standards. Wave Format Extensible was made to allow very convenient bit-masks (a single bit flag per channel). http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd757721%28v=vs.85%29.aspx Still, that doesn't explain why the 7.1 compared to 6.1 mapping is so weird.

@shaolin95: Those things can happen. I've had to repair a lot of things on my system, too. Tell me what's wrong. Are you still having trouble with the installed filters?

[shaolin95]

well is just that I am beginning to wonder if it EVER worked at all. I mean it is really easy to be fooled by the front and back channels creating the side channel sounds specially since I you have tested all channels to work first.
Right now the flac file sounds fine on all channels. The DTS-HD 7.1 airplane video moves from the sides to the rears just fine but when I play a DTS-HD movie like Mummy 3, or a movie like Pirates of the Caribean (LPCM I think) I only get sound from the rears and fronts NOT the sides.
I am just beginning to think is not worth it breaking my head over this and forget about 7.1 lol

[JanWillem32]

Main audio for those two titles on blu-ray:
The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor;
-English DTS-HD Master Audio, 5.1 ch, 48 KHz, 24 bit,
-French DTS 5.1 ch, 1536 Kb/s
-Spanish DTS 5.1 ch, 1536 Kb/s
Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy;
-English PCM, 5.1 ch, 48 KHz, 24 bit,
-English Dolby Digital 5.1 ch, 640 Kb/s
-French Dolby Digital 5.1 ch, 640 Kb/s
-Spanish Dolby Digital 5.1 ch, 640 Kb/s

Without up-mixing the audio somewhere, these titles will play with only 6 channels active.
Did you already test with some CMSS modes enabled in the Creative Labs settings panel? It could be that some modes can't do 5.1 to 7.1.

[shaolin95]

Yes I tried CMSS but it does not upmix it. It seems to be only for stereo and headphones unfortunately.