Encode to BD25

[Nico8583]

Hello,

I would like to encode my Bluray to BD25 with BD BR Rebuilder but I have some questions:
- What setting is it better to use to get the best quality (I don't care about the time)? I read several times that the best work is done with High-Speed ​​Option (BD25) but Highest with 2 passes is not supposed to be better? Or perhaps should it be left in Automatic Quality ?
- Should I use AVS Filters?
- Should I use Keep only BDMV / CERTIFICATE folders to improve compatibility with players ?
- Should I use the x264's LAVF internal and IVTC sources?

Thank you and sorry for my bad english :p

[Ch3vr0n]

It's easiest to use automatic mode, that way BDRB makes the best quality vs time judgement based on the source material, if you really don't care about time you could disable auto quality and go for "highest" and 2 pass mode (untick the one pass option thats selected)
AVS filters: no unless you want to do cropping etc, if you run into issues, jdobbs does not accept bug reports if avs filters are used. Use at own risc
keep only bdmv/certificate has nothing to do with improve compatibility. Those are the only 2 folders actually needed to play a disc. That settings is there for when people use software like AnyDVD that renames the aacs folder into ANY! and adds it to the ripped material. This settings ignores that any folder when doing the backup
lavf well, only if you have a 64bit system. it won't work on 32bit systems

[Nico8583]

Thanks a lot for your reply.

Is there an important difference of quality between all the parameters when encoding on BD25?

For lAVF, I use a 64-bits system so is it better to use or allows FFDShow 32-bits?

Thank you again.

[jdobbs]

Thanks a lot for your reply.

Is there an important difference of quality between all the parameters when encoding on BD25?

For lAVF, I use a 64-bits system so is it better to use or allows FFDShow 32-bits?

Thank you again.

If you attempt to use the 64 bit version of any of the helper apps it will fail. If you want to do 64 bit encoding, select LAVF from the SETUP menu. But, honestly, on some 64 bit systems the 32 bit execution using the helper apps is faster.

The bells and whistles of the higher quality selections are there to help keep quality as the output size gets smaller. Most of the time on BD-25 output you wouldn't be able to detect a difference because of the associated high bitrates. The exception might be discs that have a huge amount of content.

[Nico8583]

If you attempt to use the 64 bit version of any of the helper apps it will fail. If you want to do 64 bit encoding, select LAVF from the SETUP menu. But, honestly, on some 64 bit systems the 32 bit execution using the helper apps is faster.

The bells and whistles of the higher quality selections are there to help keep quality as the output size gets smaller. Most of the time on BD-25 output you wouldn't be able to detect a difference because of the associated high bitrates. The exception might be discs that have a huge amount of content.

Thanks for your reply ;)

It's OK for LAVF, now it's clear with your 2 replies :)

So for BD-25, it's better to choose Automatic Quality Settings or High-Speed Option (BD-25) ? Or perhaps Automatic Quality Settings use High-Speed Option ?
On a big screen or projector, it's very hard to see any differences ?
I would like to keep movie only so no more contents ;)

[jdobbs]

Thanks for your reply ;)

It's OK for LAVF, now it's clear with your 2 replies :)

So for BD-25, it's better to choose Automatic Quality Settings or High-Speed Option (BD-25) ? Or perhaps Automatic Quality Settings use High-Speed Option ?
On a big screen or projector, it's very hard to see any differences ?
I would like to keep movie only so no more contents ;) I recommend you use "Automatic" -- it looks at the content and increases quality settings if they are needed. That way you never have to worry about it. If you set the "High Speed" option, it may show degradation if you run into a disc with lots of content. I saw one with over 6 hours of video on it the other day.

[Nico8583]

Thanks again :)

A last question, if i chose "High Speed Option (BD-25), is it also necessary to choose between 1 and 2 pass ?

[ripburnlearn]

Can jdobbs or anyone else answer this question? When selecting "Target Size BD-25" the output seems to hover at about 22GBs. The problem that I have is that there could be at least 1GB of data added to that to fit on a 25GB Blu-Ray disc. According to CDburnerXP, my blank BD-R discs have 23.31GB of free space on them. So why does BD Rebuilder not utilize all of this space? For comparison sake, when I used Ripbot it seemed to output at 23.1GB.

Any help in this manner is greatly appreciated. Your software is brilliant and I have been enjoying it for some time now. Keep up the fantastic work!

[jdobbs]

Can jdobbs or anyone else answer this question? When selecting "Target Size BD-25" the output seems to hover at about 22GBs. The problem that I have is that there could be at least 1GB of data added to that to fit on a 25GB Blu-Ray disc. According to CDburnerXP, my blank BD-R discs have 23.31GB of free space on them. So why does BD Rebuilder not utilize all of this space? For comparison sake, when I used Ripbot it seemed to output at 23.1GB.

Any help in this manner is greatly appreciated. Your software is brilliant and I have been enjoying it for some time now. Keep up the fantastic work!BD-RB uses a target of 22.95 GB (23500 MB). A BD-R maxes out at 23.30 GB. The target is meant to leave a little room for encoding inaccuracy.

It is, however, possible that bitrate limits and other factors might make the resulting disc slightly smaller -- especially when doing movie-only BD-25 encodes.

If you want to get "closer to the edge" in terms of capacity -- something I believe to be unnecessary, you can alway use the "Custom Target" selection. Just start with a value of 23500 and work your way up until you like what you're getting. The difference in bitrate however isn't going to result in any noticable improvement in quality beyond a placebo effect.

[ripburnlearn]

Thank you for the suggestion!

What about if you were to do a "Good... Very Fast" encode. I wonder if that 1GB of extra data would be worth it? (on a Target size BD-25)

Some of the movies that I'm encoding are 34GB in size (that's the movie size only and selected audio stream). I try to keep the audio exactly the same bit for bit. So I'm trimming off near 8GB of the visual data (I'm not resizing or anything either). So it seemed to me that having to only trim off 7GB of visual data (or less) would be more beneficial to the total quality. Plus, if I'm burning to a BD-R there's no reason not to use up all the space on the disc, you know what I mean?

[jdobbs]

Thank you for the suggestion!

What about if you were to do a "Good... Very Fast" encode. I wonder if that 1GB of extra data would be worth it? (on a Target size BD-25)

Some of the movies that I'm encoding are 34GB in size (that's the movie size only and selected audio stream). I try to keep the audio exactly the same bit for bit. So I'm trimming off near 8GB of the visual data (I'm not resizing or anything either). So it seemed to me that having to only trim off 7GB of visual data (or less) would be more beneficial to the total quality. Plus, if I'm burning to a BD-R there's no reason not to use up all the space on the disc, you know what I mean? Frankly almost all BDs are encoded at a much higher bitrate than is needed. It was all part of the marketing campaign to convince us that we needed the 25-50GB associated with blu-ray. As for "use up all the space" -- well, if you can't see a difference it's just placebo, isn't it? On the other hand, the reason I added custom sizing was so people can set whatever they want. Who am I to dictate my opinions to others?

[ripburnlearn]

Frankly almost all BDs are encoded at a much higher bitrate than is needed. It was all part of the marketing campaign to convince us that we needed the 25-50GB associated with blu-ray. As for "use up all the space" -- well, if you can't see a difference it's just placebo, isn't it? On the other hand, the reason I added custom sizing was so people can set whatever they want. Who am I to dictate my opinions to others?All true.

This might be a little bit off topic but for the life of me I can't figure out why people backup their Blu-Rays to DVD9 or DVD5. What is the purpose of that? You just took a 1080p movie with HD audio and you now made it into something that is neither of the above. Why not just buy the DVD version and back those up with no compression? (much much faster).

Should I backup my DVDs to CDs? :P

Thank you for your help above, jdobbs.

[RobertM]

Hi RipBurn,

I can't figure out why people backup their Blu-Rays to DVD9 or DVD5

Have you tried this? I have not; I do BD-25 backups, not wanting to sacrifice any more video quality than necessary, and the price of BD-R discs doesn't scare me off. But, scanning these forum threads, I'm left with the belief that BD-9 quality might be pretty darn good.

[Stormcrow]

All true.

This might be a little bit off topic but for the life of me I can't figure out why people backup their Blu-Rays to DVD9 or DVD5. What is the purpose of that?


Depends what you mean.

Backing up to a BD format on a DVD disk is a pretty kewl feature, but one I don't use, since BDR-25 are cheap enough.
It preserves full HD, but compresses it very well.


Converting to Alternate DVD format output is usefull.

Perhaps because you have already paid for a BD, but need to play it in a car DVD player for the kids to watch on a long journey. Car DVD players generally can't read BD.

Do you really want to have to buy another ( DVD) copy for in-car use?

At least many recent releases come with a DVD copy bundled.

--
SC

[jdobbs]

All true.

This might be a little bit off topic but for the life of me I can't figure out why people backup their Blu-Rays to DVD9 or DVD5. What is the purpose of that? You just took a 1080p movie with HD audio and you now made it into something that is neither of the above. Why not just buy the DVD version and back those up with no compression? (much much faster).

Should I backup my DVDs to CDs? :P

Thank you for your help above, jdobbs. Can't agree with you there. I backup movie-only to BD-9 at 1080p all the time -- and I'd challenge anyone to see the difference from the original. If you can't tell the difference, why overkill?

Those who think BD is required for HD video are really underestimating the power of AVC and VC-1.

As for DVD to CD, of course not -- MPEG-2 was already stretched to it's near limit with DVD-5.

As for HD audio... gimmick, gimmick, gimmick. All the double blind tests indicate that HD audio is nothing more than a big psych. Lots of people say they can hear the difference, but they fail when confronted with a non-labeled choice between HD and standard DD or DTS encoded at a decent bitrate. I used to hear the same arguments about the difference between "pure" analog and "inferior" digital sampling and how vinyl was much better than CDs. Nobody could spot the difference then either, but that didn't stop anyone from saying so.

Just my humble opinion.

I do agree, though, that with the price of BD media getting close to DVD-9 that BD is the way to go -- especially for full backups. BD's surface is much more resilient -- and that alone is a good reason. There's nothing worse than putting in an old standby movie, only to find out it is scratched and skips (thank goodness the original is in the cabinet). I do all my full backups to BD-25.

[ripburnlearn]

I do all my full backups to BD-25.What settings do you personally use on BD Rebuilder for this? :thanks:

[jdobbs]

What settings do you personally use on BD Rebuilder for this? :thanks:All default settings. They are the default for that reason.

[ripburnlearn]

All default settings. They are the default for that reason.I believe One Pass encoding is default, you use that over 2 pass? :eek: :P

EDIT: Ok, now I'm interested in what type of wizardry you pull off to fit a movie in 1080p on a DVD9. Care to share? :) I'd like to see what this looks like...

[jdobbs]

I believe One Pass encoding is default, you use that over 2 pass? :eek: :P

EDIT: Ok, now I'm interested in what type of wizardry you pull off to fit a movie in 1080p on a DVD9. Care to share? :) I'd like to see what this looks like...

No it isn't. Automatic settings are the default. They will change based upon the content. I would venture that most original encodings are done at the equivalent of BD-RB's fastest settings. "Why?" -- because anything more is unnecessary at those huge BD bitrates.

No wizardry involved. X264 does the magic. Simply select "Movie-Only" and "DVD-9" with the default settings.

[Nico8583]

Hello :)
A new question please, can you explain "User Open GOPs for encoding" ? Is it better to use for BD-25 encoding ?
And if i choose "Keep BDMV/CERTIFICATE folders", my BD25 will be compatible with all players ?

[jdobbs]

1. Keep the default settings.

2. Yes.

[Nico8583]

1. Keep the default settings.

2. Yes.

Ok thanks, so i keep Closed GOPs ;)

[jdobbs]

Yes. They will give you slightly better compression. Honestly, though, closed GOPs really don't make a huge difference. But sometimes you want to get use all the tricks you can.

[Nico8583]

Closed GOPs give a slightly better compression ? I think i have read the contrary on many posts :confused:

[jdobbs]

My mistake. I misread the response. Open GOPs give slightly better compression. Hmmm... I was thinking I made that the default. But if I recall correctly I kept it off because of reports that some players may have problems with Open GOPs. I'm not sure whether there is any truth to it though, open GOPs should be supported per the Blu-Ray standard.

[Nico8583]

No problem :D
So Open GOPs is better for quality but Closed GOPs is better for compatibility. Hard choice... :devil:

[Nico8583]

Which parameter adds the option "Use Open GOPs for encoding" on x264 command line ?
Is it possible to see the command line used by the software?

I have found this information on the BDtoAVCHD changelog :
"Improved: for AVCHD output is used the new parameter --bluray-compat instead of --open-gop bluray, --aud, --nalhrd vbr and --b-pyramid strict. This also always checks compliance of ref and b frames with AVCHD."
A new option for Bluray has been released ?

[Ch3vr0n]

you don't need a parameter, there's a setting for it in the settings menu. Settings > setup > Video Encoding Options > 2nd one on the list

[Nico8583]

Yes but I would like to know which parameter is add to the x264 command line when I tick this option on Video Encoding Options ;)

[jdobbs]

Yes but I would like to know which parameter is add to the x264 command line when I tick this option on Video Encoding Options ;) All you have to do is look at the command line (the last executed command line is stored in LASTCMD.TXT located in the BD-RB folder).

I use the "--bluray-compat" command, but I also add commands so I can explicitly control all parameters. So if "Open GOPs" is selected you will also see the "--open-gop" in the command line.

[Nico8583]

Thank you again:)
I'll test earlier on the command line executed. It is imperative to launch an encoding to see the line in the LASTCMD.txt ?
There is no incompatibility between "- bluray-compat" and "- open-gop"? Do not add "bluray" for "--open-gop" -> "--open-gop bluray" ?

[jdobbs]

Thank you again:)
I'll test earlier on the command line executed. It is imperative to launch an encoding to see the line in the LASTCMD.txt ?
There is no incompatibility between "- bluray-compat" and "- open-gop"? Do not add "bluray" for "--open-gop" -> "--open-gop bluray" ?
Of course there is no incompatibility. If there were I wouldn't do it. :rolleyes:

You certainly have to run an encode to get a LASTCMD. Otherwise it wouldn't be the "last command".

Putting "bluray" as a parameter to "--open-gop" isn't even documented as an option in current versions.

open-gop

Default: none

Open-GOP is an encoding technique which increases efficiency. Some decoders
don't fully support open-GOP streams, which is why it hasn't been enabled by
default. You should test with all decoders your streams will be played on, or
(if that's impossible) wait until support is generally available.

[Nico8583]

It must be an older version with this option. I found these links for example :
http://doom10.org/index.php?topic=943.0
http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/x264-devel/2010-July/007536.html

[jdobbs]

It must be an older version with this option. I found these links for example :
http://doom10.org/index.php?topic=943.0
http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/x264-devel/2010-July/007536.htmlOld versions don't matter... only the one being used matters.

[Nico8583]

Ok thanks a lot ;)

[Nico8583]

A last question: how much RAM is recommended for encoding x264?

Thanks :)

[Ch3vr0n]

the more the merrier though encoding is more cpu than ram intensive

[Nico8583]

What's the mini ? 3 GB ?

[Dark Shikari]

A last question: how much RAM is recommended for encoding x264?

Thanks :)Depends on your settings, but for 1080p on the defaults, about half a gigabyte (plus what's needed for your OS and so forth).

[QBhd]

I know when I am encoding with tune film and very slow preset I use just over a GB with MeGUI... encoding is not super RAM intensive. 4GB is plenty for a system to have.

QB

[blusky]

wow, what a great thread!

Answered a lot of questions I wanted to ask.

Thanks to all for the education, and a big thanks to jdobbs for the great explanations.