Scenarist BD chapters not right with x264 .qpfile MeGUI encode, why?

[thegame]

Hi,
I am encoding my video with MeGUI and x264, I have made my .qpfile for my encode(example, I have tried 504 I, and 504 I -1) to set the chapter I frames, no errors, everything encoded fine, I checked my statsfile and it shows all my I-frames exactly where I wanted them, now when I add this file into a scenarist project and start to set my chapters I keep getting warnings that I am not on an I-frame, but I know I am, I figured out my hrs:mins:secs:frames(which is Scenarist format) to match right up to my frame I used in my .qpfile, so does anyone know what I am doing wrong, it is really annoying to go through all this work to manually set 50 chapters in a project to have them all be off on my final BD.

Thanks in advance for any and all help, I really, really need it.

[shon3i]

Scenarist uses rounded chapter times. So you need to alter your chapters form eg 23.976 to 24 to get exact as in x264 frames.

[thegame]

Sorry but I am not 100% getting what you mean, I do not have to change the fps of the video correct(it is 23.976)? these are my numbers I have now, if you could show me what you mean I will try it out ASAP, do I need to encode over with a new qpfile? well here is what I have been woriking with,

qpfile timecodes scenarist

504 I 00:00:21.021 00:00:21:00
2738 I 00:01:54.197 00:01:54:04
7030 I 00:04:53.210 00:04:53:05
10752 I 00:07:28.448 00:07:28:10
12828 I 00:08:55.035 00:08:55:00


Thanks again for any help.

[rik1138]

What numbers is Scenarist giving you?
Converting that fist one gives me .503496, which would round up to 1, so your first timecode is probably 00:00:21:01
The second one is 4.728, which probably rounds up to 5.
Third one should be correct though, unless it rounds _everything_ up...

I think Scenarist usually shows the nearest _previous_ I-frame, so try increasing one by a couple of frames and see if it gives you another number it likes... If they are more than 1 or 2 frames off, not sure what the problem is...

[thegame]

Thanks rik, I will try your math, I see how you got those numbers, I will give it a shot, but it seems that my chapters get worse off later in the file, some by quit a few frames, the chapter is actually starting before it even gets to the new scene LOL, the tail end of the previous, jeez this is so frustrating LOL, but I am sure with the help from the kind folks here I will get it figured out, should just make every darn frame an I-Frame.

Thanks again

[shon3i]

Can you post whole qpfile, i will do csv for you ?

[thegame]

I sure can, I made the qpfile with the -1 and without, but the latest encode uses with -1 added, and this is the file I am trying to use in Scenarist, I believe it was you that told me that with or without the -1 added really meant nothing LOL, but I tried anyways LOL, I will attach the qpfile.

Thanks SO much for taking a look at it.

[shon3i]

Please try this

23.976
NonDrop
00:00:21:00
00:01:54:02
00:04:52:22
00:07:28:00
00:08:54:12
00:11:20:18
00:15:22:10
00:19:19:04
00:23:11:10
00:25:10:18
00:27:23:12
00:28:50:14
00:32:11:18
00:34:30:14
00:36:31:20
00:38:42:22
00:41:18:08
00:42:07:20
00:43:57:02
00:46:57:18
00:49:03:02
00:50:18:16
00:51:37:12
00:51:45:06
00:54:28:22
00:56:40:14
01:00:38:02
01:03:43:14
01:05:48:22
01:09:59:00
01:11:39:06
01:14:40:04
01:16:35:16
01:18:55:14
01:22:26:04
01:24:27:22
01:27:21:20
01:31:13:20
01:34:05:02
01:35:31:22
01:37:02:18
01:38:49:22
01:40:02:08
01:42:01:16
01:46:41:14
01:52:17:08
01:54:45:10
01:55:26:14
01:57:12:08


and this

23.976
NonDrop
00:00:21:01
00:01:54:07
00:04:53:12
00:07:28:21
00:08:55:14
00:11:22:03
00:15:24:06
00:19:21:12
00:23:14:05
00:25:13:19
00:27:26:19
00:28:54:01
00:32:15:15
00:34:34:17
00:36:36:05
00:38:47:14
00:41:23:07
00:42:12:21
00:44:02:09
00:47:03:09
00:49:08:23
00:50:24:17
00:51:43:17
00:51:51:11
00:54:35:11
00:56:47:09
01:00:45:09
01:03:51:06
01:05:56:20
01:10:07:10
01:11:47:20
01:14:49:03
01:16:44:21
01:19:05:01
01:22:36:02
01:24:38:01
01:27:32:08
01:31:24:19
01:34:16:09
01:35:43:09
01:37:14:10
01:39:01:19
01:40:14:08
01:42:13:22
01:46:54:09
01:52:30:20
01:54:59:05
01:55:40:11
01:57:26:10

[thegame]

Thank you SO much, I will try it out right now.

* edit, well both are still off, and some by quit a bit actually, because when you import the csv file Scenarist gives you warnings that you are not on an I-Frame(which I am sure you already knew) but then it gives you the closest I-Frame and it is always the same ones, which I believe are the ones I set in my qpfile(which Scenarist is not showing them right) I am starting to think that Scenarist is not reading them right in my x264 stream or something, I am going to try a movie only BD muxed with TsMuxer and see if it puts the chapters in the right spot, because that will put them on the I-Frame as well right? but even if the chapters are in the right spot I guess it will do me no good, I need the menu's made with Scenarist, but I will test anyways.

[shon3i]

Is your movie 23.976 i assume that, maybe i am wrong?

btw try and this please :) There many strange things i found when i work with scenarist chapters, so posible there is no golden rule for all.

23.976
NonDrop
00:00:21:00
00:01:54:01
00:04:52:22
00:07:28:00
00:08:54:11
00:11:20:17
00:15:22:10
00:19:19:04
00:23:11:10
00:25:10:17
00:27:23:11
00:28:50:13
00:32:11:17
00:34:30:13
00:36:31:19
00:38:42:22
00:41:18:08
00:42:07:19
00:43:57:01
00:46:57:17
00:49:03:01
00:50:18:15
00:51:37:11
00:51:45:05
00:54:28:22
00:56:40:13
01:00:38:01
01:03:43:13
01:05:48:22
01:09:59:00
01:11:39:05
01:14:40:04
01:16:35:15
01:18:55:13
01:22:26:04
01:24:27:22
01:27:21:19
01:31:13:19
01:34:05:01
01:35:31:22
01:37:02:17
01:38:49:22
01:40:02:08
01:42:01:15
01:46:41:13
01:52:17:08
01:54:45:10
01:55:26:13
01:57:12:08

[thegame]

I will try that now, and yes my video is 23.976 fps.

Thank you


*edit, I just tried a movie only BD25 muxed with TsMuxer and ALL 50 chapters are in the exact spot where I put them, amazing how freeware software can put the chapters in correctly but pay software can't do it, I am going to try your 3rd version of the csv file now, I really think Scenarist just cannot read the x264 encoded file correctly, what else could it be?


*edit 2, OK that version 3 csv file was pretty darn close, where the other 2 threw up about 45-48 Scenarist warnings(out of 50 chapters LOL) version 3 threw up 23, I went ahead and authored up the BD25 and only a few are off, but not by much, no where near as bad as before, how did you do the version 3 csv you posted? is it software you used or did you do them from scratch? the reason I ask is I have 2 more BD25's I am authoring up and I surely do not want to run into this issue again, so I would love to know how you figured out that latest csv version you did, it would be nice if I could figure out why some are still off though, especially since you have shown that they can be fixed.

Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it very much.

[rik1138]

Keep in mind, you _can_ put a chapter anywhere you want on a Blu-ray, and that's quite possibly what TsMuxer is doing. You can put a chapter on every frame if you want. I-Frames are not a requirement (which is why Scenarist just gives you warning, not a fail).

Blu-ray players will do one of two things when jumping to a chapter that is not on an I-Frame:
It will simply start playing at the next I-Frame (this would be fairly transparent to the user)
It will start playing the exact frame at the timecode of the chapter. Since this is in the middle of a GOP structure, it will look horrible until the first I-Frame is reached, and then the video will look fine. (This is why non-IFrame chapters are not recommended)
3rd possible scenario- the player will read back to the previous I-Frame and start playing the video from there, so it will still look proper.

I'm pretty sure TSMuxer isn't verifying that you have I-Frames at those points, it's just putting the chapter where you are telling it to. When you watch the video, your player is doing one of the above to accommodate the chapter point.

Scenarist checks/validates the location of the I-Frames in the entire video file, I'd trust that as being accurate assuming your video streams are spec-compliant. If they aren't 100% spec compliant, there could be discrepancies... Try using the MUI Generator seperately to create the MUI files, and make sure 'Enable Spec check mode' is turned on while creating the files and see if it creates the files happily.

Also, assuming this is 1080p, 23.976 video, make sure your Scenarist project is in Non Drop Frame mode... It should be by default, but just want to make sure...

[thegame]

The timecodes I used for the chapters in the BD mux with Tsmuxer were set exactly to my qpfile I-Frames for the MeGUI x264 encode, it just seems strange that Scenarist has such a problem with them and Tsmuxer does not, however, shon3i has proven that this can and will work with the right csv file, the 3rd version he did for me above fixed almost half of them, and some were really far off, now I just need to know how he did that LOL, was it from scratch, or from software.

Just to be clear, when I set out to make my qpfile for my encode I loaded the lossless avi file into VDub and got my frames for the qpfile then, while I was on the frame I also took note of the timecode(for Tsmuxer) and the hrs:mins:secs:frames(for Scenarist)so I got all information at the same time while on the frame, well from what has been going on above LOL, the hrs:mins:secs:frame seems to be off somehow, on my end LOL.

OH and I did check the MeGUI statsfile to make sure the I-Frames were placed where I wanted them and it did.


*edit, I just re read your post, my video is 720p(source is not worth 1080p LOL) and it is 23.976 fps, and it is set to non drop frame.

[shon3i]

I use ChapterGen :P but as i told you in my first post here i first alter timecodes to 24fps (setting outfps 24 in ChapterGen).

Scenartist, DVDMaestro and other mastering tools have big mystery with chapters, when i work on ChapterGen i newer found right spot, to prevent warnings. For one movie is better to round to first lover, for second is first higher value.

Did you maybe use open-gop in encoding process? That can make thing harder, i really never, ever have trouble with x264 and scenarist, but iirc, i had issues with opengop.

[thegame]

Thanks for the info, so what settings did you use in Chaptergen for your 3rd version above, it is really close to what I need, I just want to be able to recreate what you got.

Yes I did use open GOP, isn't that suppose to be what Blu-rays are set to, will it be better to have closed GOP?

[shon3i]

I just set outputfps to 24. If you want load qpfile in chaptergen you need to remove I -1 from lines, but maybe is better to load some ogg or open mpls directly from source disc. OpenGOP is completely fine, but you likely will not have these warnings.

[thegame]

I just set outputfps to 24. If you want load qpfile in chaptergen you need to remove I -1 from lines, but maybe is better to load some ogg or open mpls directly from source disc. OpenGOP is completely fine, but you likely will not have these warnings.

Thank you very much, I can recreate now what you did, that put ALL my chapters pretty darn close, almost perfect once I moved back to the closest I-Frame, much, much closer than what I had before this thread LOL, but 1 chapter is a few frames to soon, it is at the tail end of a scene just before where the chapter should be, do you know how I can push that forward a bit?

[shon3i]

Just type what you want or what scenarist recommend.

[rik1138]

The timecodes I used for the chapters in the BD mux with Tsmuxer were set exactly to my qpfile I-Frames for the MeGUI x264 encode, it just seems strange that Scenarist has such a problem with them and Tsmuxer does not

I think you missed the point I was making:

Scenarist does not have a 'problem' with them, it's just advising you that they are not on I-Frames (which is optional on Blu-ray).

How do you _KNOW_ TsMuxer put the chapters on I-Frames? I can type in any number I want for chapters, and it doesn't tell me 'yes' or 'no' about it being on an I-Frame. It just puts it where I tell it. Set TsMuxer to put chapters every 5 minutes. It will put them at 00:00:05.000, 00:00:10.000, etc without any warning or care. TsMuxer just isn't telling you they aren't on I-Frames, it doesn't bother to check.

Scenarist is being overly cautious, it gives you warnings about every little thing it thinks you should be doing 'better'. :cool:

Rik

[thegame]

I think you missed the point I was making:

Scenarist does not have a 'problem' with them, it's just advising you that they are not on I-Frames (which is optional on Blu-ray).

How do you _KNOW_ TsMuxer put the chapters on I-Frames? I can type in any number I want for chapters, and it doesn't tell me 'yes' or 'no' about it being on an I-Frame. It just puts it where I tell it. Set TsMuxer to put chapters every 5 minutes. It will put them at 00:00:05.000, 00:00:10.000, etc without any warning or care. TsMuxer just isn't telling you they aren't on I-Frames, it doesn't bother to check.

Scenarist is being overly cautious, it gives you warnings about every little thing it thinks you should be doing 'better'. :cool:

Rik

I set my frames manually for my qpfile then I encoded my AVC video, I also got the exact same timecode from that same frame that I set my qpfile to, I checked the statsfile after encode and it showed my I-Frames were set per qpfile, then when I load that encoded AVC file into TsMuxer I load my timecodes for chapters, from my file that also had the frame for the qpfile, so I can only assume that they were placed correctly, and when I play the file back on my standalone BD player, all chapters are exactly the way I manually set them up, qpfile and all.

So I still believe that Scenarist has some kind of issue with these or I am just not getting it, but anyways, shon3i showed me a way to get them pretty darn close, only 1 chapter starts a few frames early, some only a couple, but I can definitely live this, it is MUCH better than what I was getting before this thread.

[shon3i]

I just do a quick test, i encode (movie with 34 chapters) with opengop, and all place in scenarist without warning. I aslo need to alter csv to 24 fps.

I wonder what is movie you encode? i never seen move with 50 chapter points? And what is whole process you do? How you extract chapter information in first place? How you generate qpfile, it's strongly recommend to use one software to generate qpfile and csv. But if you use for example MeGUI internal chapter editor for qpfile, but after use ChapterGen or other tool for csv, you probably get little offset, because calculations can be different.

[thegame]

I just do a quick test, i encode (movie with 34 chapters) with opengop, and all place in scenarist without warning. I aslo need to alter csv to 24 fps.

I wonder what is movie you encode? i never seen move with 50 chapter points? And what is whole process you do? How you extract chapter information in first place? How you generate qpfile, it's strongly recommend to use one software to generate qpfile and csv. But if you use for example MeGUI internal chapter editor for qpfile, but after use ChapterGen or other tool for csv, you probably get little offset, because calculations can be different.

I sent you a PM, but I actually set them manually myself to the DVD, I have tried a couple different ways to rip the chapters from the DVD but when I line up the celltimes(frames) with my avi they are always off, that is why I set them manually myself.

[rik1138]

I wonder what is movie you encode? i never seen move with 50 chapter points?

The Lord of the Rings films have 60-80 chapters each... :)

Anything Van Ling touches tends to have 80+ chapters too :cool: (Abyss, Terminator 2, Star Wars movies...)

[djmasturbeat]

i know this is a bit old now, but here is a helpful link to a blog I refer to:
http://linkai8424.blogspot.com/2011/07/scenasrist-bd-x264-qpfile-chapter.html