1080/60p to DVD [Archive]

MaxT

14th March 2011, 15:14

Hey guys

I've got a Panasonic HDC-TM700 (http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/hs700_tm700_sd700/) cam and it's set to recorder in the following format:

Video:
1080 / 60p
MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
28Mbps / VBR
1920 x 1080

Audio:
Dolby Digital (5.1ch)

As you can see, the source files are top quality and I have to make a DVD for my grandma with some of the recordered videos.

I'm quite picky regarding the quality and about 4-5 years ago I could spend weeks encoding the same HD trailer thousand times to find the best setting with the best visual output. Today it's a different story - I need a tool that could help me with the task of converting these HD recordings into a DVD.

Requirements:

Titles/menu on a DVD is not needed
Output must be ready to burn to DVD (VIDEO_TS or ISO)
The tool should preferably use CCE
It should be ONE tool/GUI as I'm not into fiddling with command line anymore
Price doesn't really matter

I've tried several tools as of now and I wasn't quite satisfied with the output (could it be me expecting too much from a normal DVD?):

AVS Video Converter (http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Video-Converter.aspx)
WinX Video Converter (http://www.winxdvd.com/video-converter/)
AVStoDVD (http://sourceforge.net/projects/avstodvd/)

Could anyone please help me with the task?

PS: Yeah, I know, CMD line / free tools / etc rules, but I don't really have the time to get into the details...

:thanks:

mariner

14th March 2011, 15:31

It will probably be easier to author a 1080/60p AVCHD disc using Dean Kasabow's multiAVCHD. You can choose either a DVD-R or BD-R to burn the ISO , and play it on a $90 Sony BDP-S270. Your granny will appreciate it.

MaxT

14th March 2011, 15:41

True, but my granny is like 1.500km away from me and getting her to buy one of these, set it up, plug the cables and stuff is Mission Impossible...

Actually, I've tried multiAVCHD earlier to convert some of the same source videos to MKV, but I've always got some errors, so I haven't tried that app for the DVD authoring, I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

mariner

14th March 2011, 16:41

Ghitulescu

14th March 2011, 17:17

Is it 1080p60 a valid format?

MaxT

14th March 2011, 18:16

I mean getting her a S270 as a gift...you may like to try tsmuxer as well.

Buying it for her is not a problem, but getting her to set it up is :)

MaxT

14th March 2011, 18:17

Is it 1080p60 a valid format?

I'm not getting the question, could you please rephrase? :)

Groucho2004

14th March 2011, 18:36

Is it 1080p60 a valid format?

I'm pretty sure it's not. 720p60 however is.

Ghitulescu

14th March 2011, 18:48

I'm not getting the question, could you please rephrase? :)

I don't think AVCHD accepts 1080p60. BD which is a superset accepts up to 1080p30. Maybe Panasonic has some extensions to AVCHD to allow at least its players to display these camcorder files. These files can be definitively be played using the camcorder itself.

Question: a these files really 60p or the are 60i in disguise, like many other HD camcorder do? I'm from a PAL country.

AnonCrow

14th March 2011, 18:48

Is it 1080p60 a valid format?
Just because it's outside the AVCHD/Blu-Ray format specs doesn't make it any less "valid".

a Panasonic HDC-TM700 cam
New enough Panasonic blu-ray players do play the 1080p60 video produced by the cam, as does PS3, and possibly a WD TV live HD as well as numerous 3D blu-ray players from other manufacturers (after firmware upgrade)

Price doesn't really matter
The Nero Vision Xtra (or the whole Nero Multimedia Suite 10) should handle it then, price range ~320 to 540 krone

Ghitulescu

14th March 2011, 18:56

Just because it's outside the AVCHD/Blu-Ray format specs doesn't make it any less "valid".

New enough Panasonic blu-ray players do play the 1080p60 video produced by the cam, as does PS3, and possibly a WD TV live HD as well as numerous 3D blu-ray players from other manufacturers (after firmware upgrade)

How? Using an USB HDD that can store up to 4GB files (due to FAT32)?

MaxT

14th March 2011, 19:11

I don't think AVCHD accepts 1080p60. BD which is a superset accepts up to 1080p30. Maybe Panasonic has some extensions to AVCHD to allow at least its players to display these camcorder files. These files can be definitively be played using the camcorder itself.

Question: a these files really 60p or the are 60i in disguise, like many other HD camcorder do? I'm from a PAL country.

BD is v.4.1, 1080p60 is v.4.2.

And it's true, 1080p60 is not "valid", but as dean, the author of multiAVCHD, said, "Panasonic is the major licensee for AVCHD so they can do whatever they want".

And yes, these are real 60p :) I'm from PAL country too, but I bought the cam in USA specifically because of the 60p, the EU version goes up only to 50p

AnonCrow

14th March 2011, 19:19

How? Using an USB HDD that can store up to 4GB files (due to FAT32)?

Depending on which Panasonic or Sony blu-ray player one uses, either take the SDXC (exFat formatted) card from the cam and use it, or
a USB memory stick or HDD.

Of course it's much easier to just use the HDMI-out from the cam to connect it directly to a TV.

On Topic: Adove CS 5 should do too, but it is 10-20 more expensive than Nero.
CyberLink Powerdirector works, for a slightly cheaper price than Nero ( http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/15533.page )
Sony Vegas (Pro) works as well (would have to , given Sonys 1080p60 cams)

Blue_MiSfit

15th March 2011, 08:47

If you're going to target DVD then the only option is 480i60, period.

End of discussion on the format front :)

Derek

Ghitulescu

15th March 2011, 09:33

Do you really think your grandma will notice the difference between CCE 1001 passes and AVStoDVD (to pick up one name from your list), when the source is HD (unless something is really screwed up)?
I had "nice" surprises with younger people ...
Myself I would put only decimation and resize in the script, letting CCE doing the job only for lower bitrates, there are extremely few differences among encoders when enough bitrate is possible. But that's only me, I shot to edit, not shot to correct (you may therefore need also scripts to balance the white, denoise etc.).

Yet the best solution still remains to buy your grandma an AVCHD-compatible player (you said money does not count, I assume their amount doesn't count either) and use multiAVCHD or tsmuxer, then imgburn (dvdr or bdr, according to the size). If she knows how to operate a DVD player she can manage to use the BD player as well. The second best solution is to have the external burner from Panasonic which is supplied to the camcorder, it creates AVCHD disks on DVDRs which can be played on any panasonic HD player.

MaxT

15th March 2011, 12:42

The format was defined from the start - DVD. I know that AVCHD/BD disks would be the best choice, but since that's not the option, DVD was chosen.

And all I've asked for is a "1-click" tool/gui where I could point on a video source(s) and it could spit a nicely encoded DVD structure/ISO on the other end, period :) IF that tool could use CCE (which is one of the best as I remember), it would be nice.

I haven't actually asked for a list of apps that could do the task, I've asked for the tool that could get me the best quality (every person got a different opinion, I know).

Anyway, as of now my choice stopped at multiAVCHD, it uses HCEnc 2 pass VBR and the result is pretty good (and all of the requirements are met). If anyone got another ideas on how to manage my task (where my requirements are met), feel free to express yourself :)

MrC

15th March 2011, 13:51

Why are you not satisfied with AVStoDVD? It is able to use HCenc VBR 2-pass as well. Post here the AVStoDVD project .log file, so I can help you to find the best settings.

;)

Bye

MaxT

15th March 2011, 14:24

Hey MrC and thanks for the reply. Your app was actually the 1st one I've stumbled over when I hit the forum (and after I've tried earlier named apps).

AVStoDVD looked fine to me, but I've encountered the well-known muxing problems (bitrate is too high?) when the project was nearly done. No matter how many times I went to the preferences and chosen different settings, it seems like it always used same setting (when AVStoDVD window disappeared and QUenc window came up, I could see that it was always using 8000/1pass/QUenc.). Only if I chosen to manually edit the setting before each run, then I could somewhat "control" how it should decode the source. And even in that situation, I could play with bitrate back and forth, and at the end I could end up with the muxing problem - it's a no go for me.

If you're really interested in this situation, I'm willing to reinstall the app and show you (on youtube) what I do and the result. Let me know :)

2Bdecided

15th March 2011, 17:43

I've tried several tools as of now and I wasn't quite satisfied with the output (could it be me expecting too much from a normal DVD?):It's easy enough to check that - use three tools (just once) to see what can be done. e.g. avisynth to resize and interlace, HcEnc to encode, and muxman to mux. (dss2 or ffmpeg source gets those 1080p60 files into AVIsynth just fine).

Watching home movies on DVD is disappointing after HD - soft, artefacts, interlacing. It can be really hard to encode typical amateur footage cleanly IMO.

Cheers,
David.

MrC

15th March 2011, 21:11

Hey MrC and thanks for the reply. Your app was actually the 1st one I've stumbled over when I hit the forum (and after I've tried earlier named apps).

You're welcome, here we are with some troubleshooting :)

AVStoDVD looked fine to me, but I've encountered the well-known muxing problems (bitrate is too high?) when the project was nearly done. No matter how many times I went to the preferences and chosen different settings, it seems like it always used same setting (when AVStoDVD window disappeared and QUenc window came up, I could see that it was always using 8000/1pass/QUenc.). Only if I chosen to manually edit the setting before each run, then I could somewhat "control" how it should decode the source. And even in that situation, I could play with bitrate back and forth, and at the end I could end up with the muxing problem - it's a no go for me.

Please have a look at AVStoDVD Help/FAQ/Video/Q3.5 about the strategy used by AVStoDVD to choose the video encoder and how to choose HCenc as preferred encoder always.

If you have problems with QuEnc and bitrate spikes, have a look at Help/FAQ/Authoring/Q6.1. But if you choose HCenc "forever" you will solve this issue as well.

If you're really interested in this situation, I'm willing to reinstall the app and show you (on youtube) what I do and the result. Let me know :)

No need to take clips. Just post here the project .log file.

;)

Bye

pandy

16th March 2011, 11:01

resize to 720x480p60, reinterlace to 720x480i30, encode as MPEG-2 by HCEnc, use some authoring software (DVD Author + GUI?) create ISO, burn ISO send DVD to Grandma - wish Her all the best - if money are not important (lucky You!) just buy some http://www.adobe.com/ap/products/premiere/encore/ or similar tool and use one of the available wizards.

WorBry

16th March 2011, 18:40

Surely downsize to 704x480p60 and interlace to 704x480i30 for for encoding to NTSC DVD-compliant MPEG-2 (16:9 anamorphic). He doesnt indicate though what his grandmother's current DVD player/TV set-up is (HDTV or conventional CRT TV) and whether she is in NTSC or PAL land. Might be helpful.

Might also want to change the color matrix from Rec709 to Rec601 before downsizing.

2Bdecided

17th March 2011, 14:23

I believe the OP wants one click.

Some people have managed to batch process AVIsynth plus other functions with one click, e.g. HV20pulldown.exe ...
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?36365-HV20Pulldown.exe-OR-32pulldown.zip-where-are-they

Cheers,
David.

Ghitulescu

17th March 2011, 14:29

Surely downsize to 704x480p60 and interlace to 704x480i30 for for encoding to NTSC DVD-compliant MPEG-2 (16:9 anamorphic). He doesnt indicate though what his grandmother's current DVD player/TV set-up is (HDTV or conventional CRT TV) and whether she is in NTSC or PAL land. Might be helpful.

Well, most if not all PAL equipment can display NTSC, vice versa is not true. Since the source is NTSC (HD NTSC :p), let's keep it this way.

AnonCrow

17th March 2011, 16:21

Considering the grandmother lives ~1500km away from OP (who lives in Denmark) , it's highly unlikely that she lives in a NTSC country,
so indeed they'd better doublecheck that her DVD player and TV are capable of playing/displaying NTSC DVDs.

WorBry

17th March 2011, 16:42

Dont get me wrong, I wasnt a suggesting conversion to PAL (should she live in PAL land) - rather, how an interlaced anamorphic NTSC DVD is likely to look given her existing set-up.

For sure, if she has an HDTV and upscaling DVD player (over HDMI) it will probably look quite good. Many, if not most, HDTV sets in PAL land are multi-system and can handle 60Hz video without signal conversion.

But if she has a 'conventional' PAL CRT TV, even with a multi-system DVD player capable of standards conversion, let's face it, it's not going to look so good.

That was my only point.

Edit: AnonCrow pipped me to the post.

MaxT

17th March 2011, 20:27

@MrC: Thanks, I'll look into it :)

@pandy & @WorBry: Er, "1 click" tool, as I've stated earlier :)

@WorBry & @AnonCrow: Grandma's TV is PAL (CRT if I'm not mistaken). DVD player can play both PAL and NTSC.

@2Bdecided: Looks interesting, thanks, I'll look into it :)

@WorBry (last comment): You're right on spot regarding HDTV sets in PAL lands.

WorBry

17th March 2011, 20:56

....Grandma's TV is PAL (CRT if I'm not mistaken).

And of course, if its a square (4:3) box, you've then got aspect ratio's, letter-boxing etc to consider, unless she's knowledgable about changing display settings on the set. My ageing mother isnt, but thankfully has changed her old set for an HDTV.

Just thinking. Does she have a PC by any chance (with DVD ROM of course)? Might be a better option all round, at least if she has an LCD monitor.

What else? Buy her a portable DVD player? ;)

MaxT

17th March 2011, 21:26

Does she have a PC by any chance (with DVD ROM of course)? Might be a better option all round, at least if she has an LCD monitor.

Actually she just bought one several days ago. Why? :)

WorBry

17th March 2011, 21:33

..... Why? :)

You're joking, right? :rolleyes:

Ghitulescu

18th March 2011, 08:36

Old people (I assume a grandma is old, as opposed to young) do not always get along with PC playback of multimedia files. Apparently this poses problems even to younger and more experienced people (see the relevant topics here :)).

pandy

18th March 2011, 12:10

@pandy & @WorBry: Er, "1 click" tool, as I've stated earlier :)

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/all-in-one-dvd-converters

for example http://members.home.nl/thefilmmachine/

BTW for me this is 1-click method (You know - alfa male must control everything :p )

TheSkiller

18th March 2011, 12:35

But if she has a 'conventional' PAL CRT TV, even with a multi-system DVD player capable of standards conversion, let's face it, it's not going to look so good.
If the DVD player is set to output in the DVDs native format (usually called 'Auto' in the setup), in other words no standards conversion, then I don't see a reason why it should look "bad" - actually I'm pretty darn sure it will look better on any decent CRT TV than on an HDTV (which is mostly LCD).
Maybe you don't know this, but the majority of PAL CRT TVs actually are capable of displaying the 525/30 standard, most can even correctly display it with NTSC color modulation (and in case they can't there's still PAL60* and RGB Scart connection that completely avoids color modulation).
*not supported by most DVD players though

And of course, if its a square (4:3) box, you've then got aspect ratio's, letter-boxing etc to consider, unless she's knowledgable about changing display settings on the set.
I don't see a problem here either. The DVD player is most likely set to the correct aspect ratio of the TV and either letterboxes the 16:9 picture for a 4:3 TV or outputs it anamorphically together with a 16:9 signalling on the Scart connector (if she's in Europe) and additionally maybe even a WSS signaling. Not much that can go wrong.

Does she have a PC by any chance (with DVD ROM of course)? Might be a better option all round, at least if she has an LCD monitor.
You seem to be a bit contra-CRT, WorBry, don't you. :rolleyes:
Actually I have a Trinitron CRT PC monitor and to be honest I've never seen an LCD that comes close to it. Any halfway decent CRT PC monitor that has not been used for decades should be at least on par with an average LCD. Sorry to say that but you don't seem to argue very objectively on this whole CRT topic.

Regarding PC playback, if I still had a granny I would't expect her to be able to install codecs and players to properly play back video on a PC.
DVD is a great and easy to use media, why not use it.
Most "older" people are used to watching videos on a TV only anyway.

WorBry

18th March 2011, 14:45

Ooooh boy. :o

If the DVD player is set to output in the DVDs native format (usually called 'Auto' in the setup), in other words no standards conversion, then I don't see a reason why it should look "bad" - actually I'm pretty darn sure it will look better on any decent CRT TV than on an HDTV (which is mostly LCD).
Maybe you don't know this, but the majority of PAL CRT TVs actually are capable of displaying the 525/30 standard, most can even correctly display it with NTSC color modulation (and in case they can't there's still PAL60* and RGB Scart connection that completely avoids color modulation).
*not supported by most DVD players though

........I don't see a problem here either. The DVD player is most likely set to the correct aspect ratio of the TV and either letterboxes the 16:9 picture for a 4:3 TV or outputs it anamorphically together with a 16:9 signalling on the Scart connector (if she's in Europe) and additionally maybe even a WSS signaling. Not much that can go wrong..

Alot of ifs, usually's, mosts likely's and maybe's there. All the OP knows/thinks is that "Grandma's TV is PAL (CRT if I'm not mistaken). DVD player can play both PAL and NTSC". Rather than speculate then, it might pay for him to get more specific information from his grandma on her set up (multi-system TV?) - maybe find out the make/models, so that he can look up the specs himself.

You seem to be a bit contra-CRT, WorBry, don't you. :rolleyes:
Actually I have a Trinitron CRT PC monitor and to be honest I've never seen an LCD that comes close to it. Any halfway decent CRT PC monitor that has not been used for decades should be at least on par with an average LCD. Sorry to say that but you don't seem to argue very objectively on this whole CRT topic.

I'm not trying to argue any case for LCD vs CRT. I was merely thinking LCD and assuming widescreen. He said his grandma had just bought a PC a few days ago.....so most likely an LCD, unless she's a tech savvy granny with a definite preference for CRT monitors.

Regarding PC playback, if I still a granny I would't expect her to be able to install codecs and players to properly play back video on a PC.
DVD is a great and easy to use media, why not use it.
Most "older" people are used to watching videos on a TV only anyway.

Again, I was merely thinking she could play the DVD on a PC, especially if it turns out there are problems playing on the TV set-up.

So what would your practical advice to him be? :)

Ghitulescu

18th March 2011, 15:18

WorBry

18th March 2011, 15:45

A tad aggressive boys. Actually, I'm a Brit who has mostly lived overseas for the past 25 years, currently North America :cool: :p

My interest in this topic largely stems from the fact that I am looking to buy (yes, still waiting 2BDecided ;) ) a TM900 camcorder, the 2011 upgrade of the TM700, which promises improved (45%) light sensitivity/gain-noise suppression. It's yet to hit the streets in my locale. So, I'm weighing up the same kind of issues for when it comes to sending 'the DVD' for the ol' folks at home in the UK.

Good stuff to know. Thanks and good luck MaxT.

2Bdecided

4th April 2011, 13:07

Unless you're European, WobRy, or some designer, technical adviser or the like, at one of the major brands for consumer electronics with market shares in EU, and thus you know better than us, the Europeans, what do we use or have, NTSC is since mid '80ies 25+ years) no longer a problem in Europe, not even in France (because of SECAM).

So: resize to 720x480 (16:9 ;)), colour conversion, anamorph coding (16:9 ;)), burn, play, sit back and relax.You'd better hope the connection is RGB SCART. Otherwise Grandma will probably be seeing black-and-white (NTSC output) or very choppy movement (DVD player converted PAL output).

I don't have quite the qualifications you request, but I did test this on ~80 UK CRTs a few years back. I only found five that couldn't display "NTSC" from RGB SCART - these were old models, and the picture just rolled.

Without RGB (i.e. only composite) it's really hit-and-miss which ones support what. I found: NTSC 3.58 (none), NTSC 4.43 (eight), PAL 60 (nineteen), nothing at all (the rest). All tested via SCART.

Via RF (a few people hook players up this way through a modulator): no chance at all.

Cheers,
David.

WorBry

6th April 2011, 16:59

...I did test this on ~80 UK CRTs a few years back.

You must have popular in the TV showrooms :p ;)

2Bdecided

7th April 2011, 12:11

You must have popular in the TV showrooms :p ;)I did have a helpful contact in the local Sony Centre, but Dixons etc wouldn't help at all.

The TVs I've bought - often with the seller telling me "but that one's not very good - don't you want this one instead?" - "No, I've already got one of those!". Weirdest ones are a 75Hz TV (think about how crap that must be), a multi-standard TV (really does display [i]anything), and one with a built-in HDD - not that rare, but far too easy to break when moving something that heavy!

Cheers,
David.