Flac bitstream - is it possible?

[pandy]

Another problem of this thread that people here see no difference between data stream and real time sound stream. IMO my question belongs to programming area only, so I tried to avoid sound debates as possible, but maybe I just have choosed wrong forum.

There is no difference between DTS and LPCM on HDMI - both are DATA which must be extracted and buffered in RAM before conversion. Do not extrapolate issues related to jitter on the S/PDIF.

HDMI is clocked and synchronous interface - Audio DATA occupied only fraction of time mixed with other DATA (mostly Video).

@Qaq - You are confused by Ethernet capabilities - please accept limitations of the HDMI as they can't be changed - HDMI is standardized interface - only small subset available on the market codecs is supported by HDMI - issue is not transmitting data (You can encapsulate FLAC as wav/lpcm/ac-3/dts etc) but how to tell device that this is FLAC not something else - HDMI is lack of such signaling - this remains me very similar discussion on Videohelp and on Doom9 (Capture subforum) - how to capture Hires multichannel Audio from HDCP protected HDMI - capture for room characteristic correction and resend to external amplifier over HDMI - HDMI is interface with lot of limitations made to make HDMI secure by obscurity and useful to industry not for high end customers.

I see only one solution - buy HDMI receiver and transmitter PCB for developers, use master HDCP key to generate own HDCP key and do what You can imagine with signals.

Please accept fact that HDMI accept only IEC61937 compressed audio datatypes - check http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?doc_no=IEC|61937_SER_Ed_1_0_b_2011&product_id=1772718 (as You see it will cost over 700$) i have old version of standard (up to 2008) which doesn't mention FLAC - maybe version from 2011 will support FLAC.

[Ghitulescu]

Another problem of this thread that people here see no difference between data stream and real time sound stream.

Maybe you'll explain us what is the difference ...

[Qaq]

wow...I had no idea how mach flood here on doom9. Now I see it is definitely wrong forum for my question.
we have different ears.
Even more - different minds!
Do you mean PCM data will be modified by virus in your AVR?
No, you're wrong.
Maybe you'll explain us what is the difference ...
Not in this topic, sorry. And why should I bother, btw? I mean what for? For flood only? No, thanks.
There is no difference between DTS and LPCM on HDMI - both are DATA which must be extracted and buffered in RAM before conversion. Do not extrapolate issues related to jitter on the S/PDIF.
Buffered? Do you really believe that? Do you really think that my HDMI video card is controlled by AVR? Transfer speed is controlled by resiever? I'd say I'd like to see the references your opinions are based on.
HDMI is clocked and synchronous interface - Audio DATA occupied only fraction of time mixed with other DATA (mostly Video).
Oh, I see. I have no problems with videos. Even if they have Flac tracks, since it's a video - I don't care. My point is to bitstream music - CDDA rips encoded to Flac. They sound like hell being decoded to PCM before HDMI transfer. There is no any IIS there. Please check specs for actual HDMI transmitters. Like I said in 1st post I can DBT the difference. I only can't explain it to you. And I doubt I need to.
please accept limitations of the HDMI as they can't be changed
I did. Please see 1st post - I want something compatible with WASAPI and HDMI.

[ramicio]

We are telling you how things work. We are telling you that instruments can't even measure the differences. When people make claims about being able to hear differences, they are alwys laughed at, and NO ONE ever proves different when measuring instruments can't measure differences in things. The DAC in the receiver is going to see the SAME PCM data whether it's decoded on your PC or decoded on the receiver. We can't force you to understand this logic. You either are logical or illogical.

[pandy]

wow...I had no idea how mach flood here on doom9. Now I see it is definitely wrong forum for my question.


Why complaining on own style of discussion?


Even more - different minds!


I hope.


Buffered? Do you really believe that? Do you really think that my HDMI video card is controlled by AVR? Transfer speed is controlled by resiever? I'd say I'd like to see the references your opinions are based on.


I work with HDMI IC's and products that using them - just read specification for DVI, then HDMI and learn how work modern, high speed interface. Your card sending over HDMI small frames that are filled by Audio Data - they must be: descrambled, deciphered, decoded and stored or stored if they not coded, then they are clocked from buffer by clock information transmitted also on HDMI. Some decoders use internal RAM buffer, some external. There is no jitter similar to S/PDIF.


Oh, I see. I have no problems with videos. Even if they have Flac tracks, since it's a video - I don't care. My point is to bitstream music - CDDA rips encoded to Flac. They sound like hell being decoded to PCM before HDMI transfer. There is no any IIS there. Please check specs for actual HDMI transmitters. Like I said in 1st post I can DBT the difference. I only can't explain it to you. And I doubt I need to.


I'm afraid that You are simple not able to understand how work HDMI - for weird sounding FLAC blame software and hardware that You using now - If IEC61937 not support FLAC then HDMI will also not support FLAC.



I did. Please see 1st post - I want something compatible with WASAPI and HDMI.

http://www.tactaudio.com/ - talk with them - this is company that may solve Your problem - particularly this product http://www.tactlab.com/Products/TCSmkIII/index.html

[Ghitulescu]

My point is to bitstream music - CDDA rips encoded to Flac.

Well, I think you can solve this problem easily by buying yourself a HDD media player and send the data using S/P-DIF, thus freeing the HDMI-In. It's also less hungry in terms of electricity than a full-featured PC and probably more silent, too.

[Qaq]

Ok, are you finished? Because I got tired of this useless off topic.

[Ghitulescu]

You asked for answers, now that they are not what you expected to be, are they useless?

You paid for this AVR, so what did the Onkyo support about playing FLAC over HDMI?

[ramicio]

They are useless in his own little illogical world. He's going to spend so much money just to get FLAC to bitstream over HDMI to find out his AVR can't do anything with it. Just about no one understands what lossless means, too.