HDMI device that can capture (unencrypted) "HD" audio sources?

[jalyst]

I want one for legitimate reasons, not for some organisation's definition of pirating...
I'm interested for the purpose of capturing HD audio (normally found in BD's & PS3 Games, rarely XB360) via HDMI,
running it through a HRTF filter (for 2ch simulated surround), & then out through my modded Essence ST.

I realise with BD movies I can already do this in windows without the need for a capture card, so long as I have a PAP compliant card, BD reader, & softplayer that can do DH or similar.
And it's irrelevant whether my card is PAP compliant in Linux, so once the BD is ripped I should also be able to do this.

But as my Essence ST is not PAP compliant, it's not possible to handle the HD audio stream via the PAP process in Windows.
Capturing BD output from my PS3 via HDMI (once HDCP is stripped) should remove the PAP burden, then hopefully I can pass the signal to a HRTF filter, and then onto my Essence ST.

Another reason for HDMI capture is HD audio from console games...

Again I want my Essence ST to be the final DAC in the chain, not an AVR.
The only concern I have is desync, but if audio & video are passed to the capture device & video "passed-through", then clocking should remain "fairly" in-sync.
Of course because of the post-processing assoc/w running through a filter and then on to the ST, tweaking of timings will be necessary.

Sorry if this doesn't clearly convey what I'm wanting, 5am, need some sleep!
Thank-you for your time/thoughts/advice, good night.

[Mug Funky]

would SPDIF do the trick? ps3 can output that, at least from an unencrypted blu-ray (i haven't used a ps3 for anything except checking BD-R's before replication).

otherwise you can grab a blackmagic card that captures HDMI, though it might be a touch expensive for this purpose.

[jalyst]

Hi Mug thanks for the thoughts/input, tis greatly appreciated!

would SPDIF do the trick?

Nah S/PDIF cannot transfer any of the HD audio formats, best it can do is DD/DTS 5.1.

ps3 can output that, at least from an unencrypted blu-ray (i haven't used a ps3 for anything except checking BD-R's before replication).

I don't own a PS3 yet, but if what I'm suggesting is do-able (so I can use my ST in Windows for BD playback), then I'll prolly get one.
I do own an XB360 Slim, it doesn't do Blueray, but some Xbox games use DD and DTS HD audio formats.*

I want a HDCP compliant card so conversion from multi-ch HD to 2ch simulated surround can be done, & then passed to my ST for DAC.
The same would be handy for game audio coming from a PS3, if/when I get one.

otherwise you can grab a blackmagic card that captures HDMI, though it might be a touch expensive for this purpose.

Not sure I want to touch a blackmagic with a 10-foot pole. :)
Not after what's been said here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1449128#post1449128) & in the thread linked to from there.
If what I'm wanting is do-able with the right hardware/software/tweaking, & results in reliable functionality, then the price is worth it IMO.

I've seen users on this forum mention many other cards that can capture HDCP sources.
I'm just not certain if what I'm proposing will be do-able with any of them...
Any ideas on how to proceed? Do you know of anyone more knowledgeable in this area?

Thanks again & all the best.
*Not nearly as many as PS3 I believe...

[Ghitulescu]

No capture card ever can capture HDCP signals.

For consumer segment that's considered to be a copyright infringement.
For professional segment there's no need for this (no signals in studios are protected).

Dead end :(

[jalyst]

No capture card ever can capture HDCP signals.

There's at least a couple in the thread i linked to that people have used for that purpose.
Admittedly some no longer work with recent driver updates.

[Ghitulescu]

Please show me one single capture card that captures HDCPed HDMI.

[jalyst]

Just have a look in that thread i linked to.

Thanks.

[Ghitulescu]

They capture analog, not HDMI-in. They even say this is impossible.

[jalyst]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1457132#post1457132
there's one or two other exmples if i recall correctly

[Ghitulescu]

Buy one then. But do not confound the ability to display HDCP video in overlay with the ability to record/save that video on the HDD.

[jalyst]

I'm guessing you mean "confuse" :)
But that's the whole point of a capture card, capture the source material locally for manipulation.

[Ghitulescu]

Buy it if you're so sure.

[jalyst]

I was kind of hoping for a succinct explanation as to why it will or won't be possible to manipulate the HD audio once captured.
Video I mainly just want to "pass through" via the capture device, or if not possible, then just connect straight to the display.

[Ghitulescu]

It's only 99$ on Amazon. That's cheap compared to other HDMI-in cards. Why not testing it yourself?

[jalyst]

well mainly because I'd rather no throw $99 down the drain :)

*update*
another thread going here that may be of interest
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/332189-HDCP-compliant-HDMI-capture-card?p=2059206&viewfull=1#post2059206

night.

[TheFluff]

No capture card ever can capture HDCP signals.

For consumer segment that's considered to be a copyright infringement.
For professional segment there's no need for this (no signals in studios are protected).

Dead end :(

Of course such things exist. It doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that HDCP has been cracked since sometime last year. A few years ago there used to be HDMI splitters and such that removed HDCP readily available on eBay in some European countries (German firm Spaz Tech or whatever they were called used to manufacture a box that took a HDCP encrypted HDMI input and made it to HDCP-free DVI), but many of those countries have gotten stricter anticircumvention laws since then, so now you have to look a bit harder. If you know some people who are good at FPGA's, microelectronics and PCB design, it's pretty cheap and easy to build a HDCP remover yourself, but if you don't have the right contacts and aren't good at soldering yourself there are several hacks for existing device drivers available.

Edit: additionally, now that the PS3 has been jailbroken, it'll probably be possible to just disable HDCP on the PS3 side soon as well.

[mariush]

There are some lcd tv's out there that contain a chip that does fast hdmi switching between various hdmi connectors in the back - the output of that chip is unprotected hdmi so you can solder the hdmi wires to the output pins and have hdmi out.

I think the particular tv in the "white paper" was a Samsung that had 3 hdmi inputs in the back and advertised fast hdmi switching - I don't remember the link anymore but I think it was stored on Google. Maybe search my previous posts for a link, I'm too lazy to do it.

[Mug Funky]

Not sure I want to touch a blackmagic with a 10-foot pole. :)

i feel a slight affinity for BMD products, mainly because i worked at the place BMD (and before that, digital voodoo) started from.

call it stockholm syndrome... this was a post house that did not treat it's workers well, but gave many talented people a start. this guy built a capture card in the back utility room, started a company, then got screwed, then came back to the same place, built another capture card, started another company, and now they're taking over the post-hardware world (buying up DaVinci is huge).

to be honest, i wasn't aware that HDMI even supported 480p... certainly no editing program supports it. that is probably why support is hard to get from them - they're bogged down with idiots who think they can edit just because they bought a mac and final cut studio, asking the same questions over-and-over (i'm justified in this opinion - i've had to fix many, many messed up FCP projects made by people that didn't know how to edit)

on the HDCP issue, i've no idea. perhaps a PS3 firmware hack will emerge that doesn't apply HDCP in the first place?

[Ghitulescu]

Of course such things exist. It doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that HDCP has been cracked since sometime last year. A few years ago there used to be HDMI splitters and such that removed HDCP readily available on eBay in some European countries (German firm Spaz Tech or whatever they were called used to manufacture a box that took a HDCP encrypted HDMI input and made it to HDCP-free DVI), but many of those countries have gotten stricter anticircumvention laws since then, so now you have to look a bit harder. If you know some people who are good at FPGA's, microelectronics and PCB design, it's pretty cheap and easy to build a HDCP remover yourself, but if you don't have the right contacts and aren't good at soldering yourself there are several hacks for existing device drivers available.

Of course these things do not exist. And you just confirmed it. Because why the need for an HDCP-stripper should these things that exist can capture HDCPed HDMI in the first place? :p

In Germany the HDCP strippers are not allowed. Even Spatz relabelled Taiwanese things. In 2008 I witnessed at a HiFi Fair that the police came and confiscated all these strippers.

The reason is the same as for cinavia, see my post there. Nobody needs legally a HDCP-stripper and your own creations are neither cinavied nor HDCPed.

[jalyst]

A few years ago there used to be HDMI splitters and such that removed HDCP readily available on eBay in some European countries (German firm Spaz Tech or whatever they were called used to manufacture a box that took a HDCP encrypted HDMI input and made it to HDCP-free DVI)

It sounds like those devices could only pass on HD video...
What did they do with high bandwidth audio formats often found in BD's & the occasional XB/PS3 game?

If you know some people who are good at FPGA's, microelectronics and PCB design, it's pretty cheap and easy to build a HDCP remover yourself,

I didn't realise this would be so easy...

I know with the master key now leaked, it should be easy to implement a mechanism in fw, whereby it's impossible to revoke keys.
But I thought devising silicon which can handle the encryption & the handshake process, would be much, much, harder.

Can you recommend anyone I can approach about designing something like this?

but if you don't have the right contacts and aren't good at soldering yourself there are several hacks for existing device drivers available.

That would be me :)
I don't suppose you could elaborate on these several hacks for existing device drivers?
And their limitations, if any...

Edit: additionally, now that the PS3 has been jailbroken, it'll probably be possible to just disable HDCP on the PS3 side soon as well.

Good point...
I mainly want a capture device for grabbing HD audio in Xbox games.
But longer-term I wanna grab HD audio from Games & maybe BD's on the PS3 too.

BD's because my Essence isn't PAP compliant, so I can't play BD audio in Windows.
A way around that is to rip & convert the BD 1st, so I guess capturing BD audio from PS3 is less important.

[jalyst]

There are some lcd tv's out there that contain a chip that does fast hdmi switching between various hdmi connectors in the back - the output of that chip is unprotected hdmi so you can solder the hdmi wires to the output pins and have hdmi out.

I think the particular tv in the "white paper" was a Samsung that had 3 hdmi inputs in the back and advertised fast hdmi switching - I don't remember the link anymore but I think it was stored on Google. Maybe search my previous posts for a link, I'm too lazy to do it.

Maybe that's the best way to go... :confused:
Seems like an expensive route considering I already have a TV!?

But if I can turn one HDMI-in into a unencrypted HDMI-out for one of the remaining HDMI inputs.
Then it becomes irrelevant whether the capture card/software can bypass HDCP!
So I can just focus on getting a top-notch HDMI capture card.
One that does 1080p/60 and 8ch LPCM (DTS-MA, True-HD etc) "HD" audio sources.

Problem is...
So far I'm finding that none of these HDMI capture cards can actually capture 'HD audio'.
They do good video, but for some weird reason they eschew decent audio :(

[mariush]

The TV i mentioned has a chip that handles the three HDMI with HDCP inputs and has one internal output (pins on the tv circuit board). In order to do what it's designed to do, fast switching between the three inputs , it does not encrypt what it sends to the output so from that point, the tv sees everything as hdmi without hdcp.
By soldering the wires from a hdmi cable to the output pins you would get hdmi without encryption.

BUT, I don't know if these chips are used anymore and I don't know if this was an accident or not, it could just have been that they forgot to flip a switch in that chip's microcode/firmware, or maybe they chose the output without hdcp because it was not consumer accessible and they wanted to reduce power consumption by not decrypting everything a second time.

I don't know how you'd go about capturing the audio part from a hdmi - I suppose what I would try is to plug the hdmi into a tv or some device and use that device's coax/optical out and feed into a soundcard with coax/optical in. You'd have digital in but maybe only stereo or 5.1, whatever spdif supports.

[jalyst]

The TV i mentioned

I don't suppose you can recall?
I've had a look through your posts but can't see any mention of this.

I don't know how you'd go about capturing the audio part from a hdmi - I suppose what I would try is to plug the hdmi into a tv or some device and use that device's coax/optical out and feed into a soundcard with coax/optical in. You'd have digital in but maybe only stereo or 5.1, whatever spdif supports.

But how is that any better than just using the s/pdif-out out already on a XB360 or PS3?

I don't see why a hdmi capture card (w/hdcp work-around) can't capture full hd audio, if it can do full HD video!?
One's got to be out there, or available very soon, surely...

[ChiDragon]

Second result on Google for "hdcp fast switch": http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=150031

Looks like the site died. I remember it too because it circulated on blogs as HDCP being "cracked", but the guy never did any capturing with his little setup. And no one else has fessed up to actually trying his method, that I've seen.

One of the photos of his hacked-together wires is here (http://hackaday.com/2009/10/01/tv-hack-bypasses-hdcp/).

[jalyst]

Second result on Google for "hdcp fast switch": http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=150031
<SNIP>

Thanks ChiDragon, my GoogleFu abandons me :)

Even if I could find/buy a TV with that switch for a relatively small amt (or even better, the switch IC on it's own)...
Just because the HDCP source is no longer encrypted, doesn't mean a hdmi capture card I have it plugged into, can capture HD audio right?
I mean I'm still limited by the fact that all HDMI capture cards (that I'm aware of) can only do: 48kHz/2ch PCM/16-bit, right?

[ChiDragon]

Canopus/Grass Valley has a couple "pro" cards that claim multichannel LPCM capture, example (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1182895#post1182895). 1000 USD. They use an old version of HDMI and do not support HDCP, period. You would have to use a hardware HDCP killer before inputting to it. Video-wise they only use their own proprietary codec with no support for uncompressed. Also, no 64-bit OS for that card.

[jalyst]

@TheFluff...

Could you please address the points in my response (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1480333#post1480333") to your post?
Thank-you so much if you can spare a few minutes to help.

Canopus/Grass Valley has a couple "pro" cards that claim multichannel LPCM capture, example (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1182895#post1182895). 1000 USD. They use an old version of HDMI and do not support HDCP, period. You would have to use a hardware HDCP killer before inputting to it. Video-wise they only use their own proprietary codec with no support for uncompressed. Also, no 64-bit OS for that card.

Weird, yet again no email informing me of new posts, and it's not my gmail filter, anyway.
You sir, are a legend, thank-you very much!!

Not supporting HDCP is a good thing in a way though isn't it...
I mean if it was a newer HDMI card that supported HDCP, unless it had a software flaw like the avermedia card...
Then I wouldn't be able capture HDCP sources period, as I wouldn't even have the option to use a stripper, right?

Damn sooo expensive, surely there's cards with similar audio capture abilities, that don't cost nearly as much!?
32-bit only is an easy problem to circumvent, I could just run it in a VM.

What's the significance of them using a proprietary video codec and not uncompressed?
Would that make it harder for me to do what I'm wanting to do, how so?

[TheFluff]

It sounds like those devices could only pass on HD video...
What did they do with high bandwidth audio formats often found in BD's & the occasional XB/PS3 game?
I don't think there's anything that supports that. Most of them seem to do stereo only.

I didn't realise this would be so easy...

I know with the master key now leaked, it should be easy to implement a mechanism in fw, whereby it's impossible to revoke keys.
But I thought devising silicon which can handle the encryption & the handshake process, would be much, much, harder.

Can you recommend anyone I can approach about designing something like this?
Not really. Most of the people I know who do that kind of stuff are sort of shady characters who don't appreciate getting their contact details spread around, and they don't really do it for the cash either. If you can get ahold of timecop, he may or may not be able to help you, but he can be pretty hard to find sometimes. (Telling him I sent you will probably not help you; it'll quite possibly have the opposite effect.)

That would be me :)
I don't suppose you could elaborate on these several hacks for existing device drivers?
And their limitations, if any...
I think you found the most promising one yourself already, judging by your links. Again, I don't think it does what you want (it seems to be video only).

I cannot help you any further. Now please stop harassing me.

[ChiDragon]

Not supporting HDCP is a good thing in a way though isn't it...
I mean if it was a newer HDMI card that supported HDCP, unless it had a software flaw like the avermedia card...
Then I wouldn't be able capture HDCP sources period, as I wouldn't even have the option to use a stripper, right?

A stripped source is an unprotected source, so any card will capture it.

32-bit only is an easy problem to circumvent, I could just run it in a VM.

How? VMs don't have access to your actual hardware.

What's the significance of them using a proprietary video codec and not uncompressed?
Would that make it harder for me to do what I'm wanting to do, how so?

Nothing except possibly increased latency/delay.

[Ghitulescu]

From what I see (and remember ;)), this is another intellectual exercise from jalyst. Did you, jalyst, buy that damn AVR that can decode all HD signals, or still tinker the PC way, cumbersome and full of obstacles?

[jalyst]

Weird, this time I got an email about new posts, but only just now!
Anyway moving along....

I don't think there's anything that supports that. Most of them seem to do stereo only.

The devices you were referring to (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1480333#post1480333) are called HDCP strippers.
And they're not some rare/esoteric device that only l337 h4x0r5 have access to :D

Not really. Most of the people I know who do that kind of stuff are sort of shady characters who don't appreciate getting their contact details spread around, and they don't really do it for the cash either. If you can get ahold of timecop, he may or may not be able to help you, but he can be pretty hard to find sometimes. (Telling him I sent you will probably not help you; it'll quite possibly have the opposite effect.)

Timecop?

I've found someone with plans for a stripper that passes Video & (significantly) "HD audio" via HDMI-out.
That in itself won't do me much good until I can find a HDMI capture device that knows how to receive more than 2CH DD/DTS 5.1.

I've found two devices so far:
*one that can do 2CH DD/DTS 5.1
*one that can do 8ch LPCM but not the DD/DTS encoded formats

I cannot help you any further. Now please stop harassing me.

LOL, okay matey I'll leave you in peace!

A stripped source is an unprotected source, so any card will capture it.

Yeah that was my logic...
Just heard conflicting opinions in that regard, so was checking.

How? VMs don't have access to your actual hardware.

Absolutely they do, depends on CPU/software combo though & the "hardware" you're talking about.
Last I checked (yonks ago) Intel VT extensions (higher end CPU's) were enabling almost flawless PCI pass-through, w/the right VMM etc.
Not so sure about AMD...

Nothing except possibly increased latency/delay.

Fair enough, thanks, LOL
That was always going to be a tricky one to answer "in full" anyway ;)

[jalyst]

From what I see (and remember ;)), this is another intellectual exercise from jalyst. Did you, jalyst, buy that damn AVR that can decode all HD signals, or still tinker the PC way, cumbersome and full of obstacles?

Not yet my friend, I relish tormenting you, LOL jk ;)

[Ghitulescu]

I am one of the idealists that still think that technical and scientifical progress are supposed to help people. The reality showed me almost every time, that I'm wrong, that the progress of science is something that help "them" to control "us" better*. The easiest way of doing what you want to do, is to follow the path they laid out for you, ie game console->HDMI->AVR (integrated sound processor)->Speakers. Stepping out is costly and not always functional.

[jalyst]

Oh I'm not arguing it'll be legal, at least according to the the US's DMCA...
But I don't want to circumvent HDCP for illegitimate purposes e.g. copying copyright content.
Here's one example of a card that can capture hdcp sources
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1457132#post1457132

And of course one doesn't need to limit themselves to cards w/a software flaw that allows one to circumvent HDCP.
There are strippers aplenty around now, including ones that supposedly pass "HD" audio via HDMI.
One small problem though, there still isn't bloody anything that can capture that passed "HD" audio!

The only thing I've found so far that comes close is this (http://www.digitalnow.com.au/CaptureX_HDMI.htm).
But it's not clear whether it's "HD"* DD/DTS, or just regular 5.1.
I suspect it'll only be 2-ch PCM & hence just regular DD/DTS?
I'm emailing them for more detail....

Also the colossus will supposedly have DTS 5.1 support soon, along with DD 5.1 via HDMI.
It's only 2-ch PCM & of course can't support the "HD" formats I was hoping for, but it's likely to be better supported than the above option.

The only other devices that come kinda close, but I doubt will be usable unless anyone can verify/debunk are:
http://www.grassvalley.com/products/pegasus
Available via USB or PCIe
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
No PCI/e card option...
http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/pc/mxo2_family/
Still not listed on OEM's site, I've emailed to find out when they'll release, & for more detail
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1491617#post1491617

Not every BD utilises HD audio & it's not for capturing HD audio from BD's anyway, as that can be done "on PC".
It's for capturing HD audio that's sometimes used in PS3 games, and on the rare occasion, Xbox games.
Although for the latter I won't be able to grab HD audio, because Xbox's can only pass DD/DTS 5.1 2ch LPCM externally.

But it's looking increasingly unlikely that a HDMI device that can capture HD audio exists.
So I may have to settle for one of the aforementioned, or one of the soundcards that does the same.

OR...

A multi-ch analogue capture card, but that just gets too complicated don't you reckon?!?
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta44.html
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta66.html
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010LT.html

If I go for digital capture....
I'm leaning more towards the colossus, as it can also capture/transcode analogue, which may be handy if DVB-C tuning's unreliable! :)

*"HD" = DTS-MA & TrueHD 7.1 (& more) HD surround formats

[Ghitulescu]

And of course one doesn't need to limit themselves to cards w/a software flaw that allows one to circumvent HDCP.
There are strippers aplenty around now, including ones that supposedly pass "HD" audio via HDMI.
One small problem though, there still isn't bloody anything that can capture that passed "HD" audio!

The only thing I've found so far that comes close is this (http://www.digitalnow.com.au/CaptureX_HDMI.htm).
But it's not clear whether it's "HD"* DD/DTS, or just regular 5.1.
.......

The only other devices that come kinda close but I doubt will be usable, unless anyone can verify or debunk are:
http://www.grassvalley.com/products/pegasus
Available via USB or PCIe
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
No PCI/e card option...
http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/pc/mxo2_family/
Still not listed on OEM's site, I've emailed to find out when they'll release, & for more detail
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1491617#post1491617
......

But it's looking increasingly unlikely that a HDMI device that can capture HD audio exists
......


HDMI is not used in studios, so, unlike SCMS-free solutions, you won't find any studio gear that would use HDMI. HDMI is for consumer, not for producer. Assuming for the sake of argument that there are HDMI-in pro cards (I know of Blackmagic & co, but they have a lucrative niche for "would be pros", the studios use SDI), they still won't capture HDCP, since this is again something for consumer, copy-protections are not used in studios. There is no need, think the studios, for a consumer to use HDMI-in*. Dead end.

The first solution, not only is limited to non-HD audio, but also to 1080i.

Again, coming to HD audio, the reason is always the same (like for HD video) - either no need for, or other signals (AES).


*As a consumer you either have your own source (eg camcorder) which uses media one can simply use/copy in a PC, or have sources that one is not allowed to copy (HD SAT/Cable, BD, DVD-Audio, SACD, GameConsoles).

[jalyst]

Assuming for the sake of argument that there are HDMI-in pro cards (I know of Blackmagic & co, but they have a lucrative niche for "would be pros", the studios use SDI), they still won't capture HDCP

They will if you use a stripper device...
In the past stripper devices only passed audio from source via toslink, & their video-out was limited to DVI/CRT etc.
There is one coming soon that passes (purportedly) HD audio & video via HDMI-out.

But that still doesn't solve the problem of there being no HDMI capture devices that do better than:

1) 2ch LPCM + DD/DTS 5.1
OR
2) 8ch LPCM but no DD/DTS support.

If I can validate that both these are true, then my best option will be to go for (1) or soundcards.
OR
Multi-channel analogue capture, if I want HD that badly!

[Ghitulescu]

They will if you use a stripper device...

Unfortunately they are outlawed as well ...

[jalyst]

Oh I'm not arguing it's legal, at least according to the the US's DMCA...
But I don't want to circumvent HDCP for illegitimate purposes e.g. copying copyright content.
What about the rest of my post/s? Cheers!

[Ghitulescu]

The use/value of an HDMI-in card for a regular consumer is next to nothing/zero:
- most of them are 1080i anyway (those 1080p-able fall under item 4 below :))
- no HD audio (if audio at all)
- immense data capacity/bandwidth needed (uncompressed video)
- expensive (well, all capturing cards were expensive at their time)
- HDCP cannot be circumvented (inside the chip - well, one can always design his own chip).

BD can be copied using the PC drive. SAT/Cable HD broadcasts can be copied using a SAT/Cable-recorder. Camcorder (the only legal source :)) recordings are much simpler copied by taking out the SD-card (or using USB for those with HDD) to a PC. It remains only the game consoles for which no emulator exists, but, hey, their owner will grow up one day (hopefully ;)), besides the pleasure is to play not to watch recorded games (people uploading games on youtube don't realize this - it's like inhaling other people smoke instead of smoking yourself).

[jalyst]

Anyone else aside from Ghitulescu?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1491844#post1491844
No offense meant Ghitulescu, you often provide some insightful/useful thoughts.

Thank-you.

[pfxz]

Is there any reason why you'd want such a device? You realize that this would be a lossy capture, since HDMI output carries whatever post processing the device does on the source.

It's always been easier to go after the digital source itself, and only *that* is really lossless (eg: the bluray disc, the QAM bitstream for cable).

And as Ghitulescu points out, you'll need some serious hardware for this. HDMI has a maximum bandwidth of 10.2 Gbit/s, and that's about 1000 megabytes/s. A modern harddisk has a write speed of 30-35 MB/s, think about that.

[jalyst]

It's always been easier to go after the digital source itself, and only *that* is really lossless (eg: the bluray disc, the QAM bitstream for cable).

If I could do that I would, alas it's for PS3 & XB Games. :(

HDMI has a maximum bandwidth of 10.2 Gbit/s, and that's about 1000 megabytes/s

Actual bandwidth requirements are less than that.
I have a 3R0 of X25-V's, 1 short-stroked 1TB WD Black, & 2x 2TB WD Greens, so far.

[jmac698]

Hauppage Collosus supports HDMI capture.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4273/hauppauge-colossus-hd-pvr-with-hdmi-support

[jalyst]

Yeah i know, it's on the short-list (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1491844#post1491844) I mentioned a few posts back.
Alas not HD audio, but it seems that simply doesn't exist, which was always going to be strong possibility :)
The only one that seemed like it "might", has now been ruled-out by the OEM:

Q: Does the card allow "real-time processing"?
A: Yes, captureX HDMI support ‘Real-time processing. It can decode and play, record the input data in real-time processing.

Q: What format is the captured audio data stored once it's dumped locally?
A: When using the internal Mainconcept Encoder, the audio format is MPEG Audio. Additionally, users can use various encoders which maybe installed in their system. So, audio format can be changed according to the type and muxer of the compression encoder.

Q: It's not clear from the product description, whether this card can capture "HD audio".
HD audio = 8ch PCM (or more) + encoded in DTS-MA or DD TrueHD formats.
A: Fulld HD Audio capture (8 ch) is not supported, the card will capture 5.1 (6ch) audio via HDMI.

But as noted above, it may have one or two other traits that make it more ideal than the colossus.
I'm yet to ask a similar set of questions to Hauppauge...

[jalyst]

The only other devices that come kinda close, but I doubt will be usable unless anyone can verify/debunk are:
http://www.grassvalley.com/products/pegasus
Available via USB or PCIe
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
No PCI/e card option...
http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/pc/mxo2_family/


I think these 3 can all be ruled-out, because as far as I can tell...
None support reading/capturing any of the incoming DD/DTS formats?
This leaves only the Colossus, CaptureX, MonsterXX, or the Analogue capture cards.
I've asked Skydigital (CaptureX) questions similar to this:

(1) Does the card allow "real-time processing"?

i.e. Many (not all) capture devices allow real-time access to captured data.
That way it can be grabbed & reprocessed/redirected, as the remaining data comes in.

(2) What format is the captured audio data stored once it's dumped locally?

Signs are positive based on their feedback to those questions (they're Koreans).
Although so far I've not had feedback directly from them...
Only reformatted & sent via a retailer here in Australia, who -bizarrely- won't give me their direct addy.
Skydigital only have a web-form on their site, which they won't respond to :(
I'm trying to work out how to contact them directly, I don't trust the retailer acting as a intermediary.

I'm yet to ask Hauppauge the same set of questions...
I will also formulate a similar set of questions for M-Audio, to see if their analogue cards are suitable.
For the MonsterXX (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1491617#post1491617) (SKNet) there's absolutely no specs on their product page yet.
So far SKNet has only confirmed it's going into production, they have not answered my other questions :(
(They're Japanese)

If anyone can think of anything else that needs to be asked, please advise.
If you know how I can get answers to my current questions for MonsterXX & CaputreX, please do tell!
I'm not anticipating any issues in getting feedback from Hauppauge.

[Ghitulescu]

Hauppauge just relabels 3rd party products.

[Ghitulescu]

You have to ask the real manufacturer for these details, unless it's a software controlled feature (or a FW controlled one and the manufacturer allows the rebadger to change/customise it).

[jalyst]

Google voice works beautifully w00t!
Got through to Hauppauge in Singapore, & SKNet in Japan successfully.
Skydigital & others here I come, no longer shall you ignore me!
Hopefully more updates in 24hrs, once I've gathered more information.

[jalyst]

I think these 3 can all be ruled-out, because as far as I can tell...
None support reading/capturing any of the incoming DD/DTS formats?
This leaves only the Colossus, CaptureX, MonsterXX, or the Analogue capture cards.
I've asked Skydigital (CaptureX) questions similar to this:
<SNIP>

Based on feedback I've now gathered from all OEM's...
I'm going to try makes/models in the following order, if the prior make/model turns-out to be unsuitable etc.

(1) Colossus (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_colossus.html) (Hauppauge)
(2) CaptureX (http://www.digitalnow.com.au/CaptureX_HDMI.htm) (Skydigital)
(3) Semi-Pro soundcard (exact make/model YTBD, suggestions welcome!)

(4) Delta ? (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PCIinterfaces) (M-Audio: one of their cheaper PCI/e multich analog capture cards)
(5) Pegasus (http://www.grassvalley.com/products/pegasus) (GrassValley: no HDMI-in DD/DTS but it does support 8ch LPCM, the main reason it stays on the list)
(6) MX02 family (http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/pc/mxo2_family/) (Matrox: external & no DD/DTS support, but there may be other redeeming qualities, YTBC)

It's not clear if the MonsterXX's audio specs will be suitable.
SKnet (http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/) (Japan) explained that they won't release them for at least one more month.

Intensity Pro (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/) (Blackmagic) audio specs don't look suitable.
The Shuttle's better & perhaps more suitable than the Pegasus (uses newer HDMI), but it's external (USB3).
So for now Blackmagic's products are "off my radar" entirely.

If anyone feels the order should be different, please let me know why!

Thanks again.

[beluga]

Hi guys,

MonsterXX is already out.... Check it out!
http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/product/mvxx/index.html