SACD ripping

[Wilbert]

Apparently it is possible to rip your SACD using a PS3:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=86151

I don't have a PS3 nor a SACD myself, so i can't try it. Any takers?

[Ghitulescu]

It should be possible, in theory, as the PS3 just emulates an SACD player, this means that RAW data reaches the cell proc and thus can be "deturned" to a file.

[Wilbert]

It should be possible, in theory, as the PS3 just emulates an SACD player, this means that RAW data reaches the cell proc and thus can be "deturned" to a file.
Apparently it is possible in practice too.

[Jens S]

There's more discussion about it here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1471822)

[ChiDragon]

The link you posted goes to this thread.

[Gser]

The link you posted goes to this thread.

ZOMG! A thread within a thread within a thread. *MIND EXPLODES*

[Ghitulescu]

The link you posted goes to this thread.

A recursive thread. That must be a world premiere.

[lchiu7]

I have a PS3 with SACD support so this was interesting. But Sony have made the process more complicated by removing the ability to boot up another OS on the PS3 which you need to do in order to get access to the drive data.

You can avoid this issue by not upgrading the firmware but that means you lose access to the PSN which my son would not like :-(. And the other hacks out there to get over it seem pretty complicated.

So possibly the answer is is to get an earlier model PS3 that has SACD support, never upgrade the firmware on it and use that for SACD ripping.

I have a decent SACD library so while it would be good to get the data onto the server, I just live with playing the content on the PS3 or my Oppo BD player. If I want to listen on a portable player, then it's easy enough to rip the red book layer since there is no real audible benefit from lossless or HD audio on a portable media player or in the car (well IMHO).

[Jens S]

The link you posted goes to this thread.

Oops. Sorry about that. I meant to write:

More discussion about that here (http://www.ps3sacd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=341)

I thought for a moment you meant I had made a circular reference but it was really a recursive one. Must have been a copy/paste mess-up. My apologies.

[Wilbert]

Some utilities: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=76080&view=findpost&p=672033 and http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=37717&view=findpost&p=670042

I have a PS3 with SACD support so this was interesting. But Sony have made the process more complicated by removing the ability to boot up another OS on the PS3 which you need to do in order to get access to the drive data.
That might change again since the PS3 is completely hacked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Private_key_compromised).

[lchiu7]

Some utilities: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=76080&view=findpost&p=672033 and http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=37717&view=findpost&p=670042


That might change again since the PS3 is completely hacked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Private_key_compromised).

I was aware of that. But for me anyway, the effort of going to all this hassle so I can rip a SACD just isn't worth the benefit. After all I can play SACD's on my PS3 and also on my Oppo BD player and if I want content on portable media, the red book layer is easily extracted.

Still it's an interesting possibility.

[vfalks]

easier methods are actively in the works.

1. a method for ripping using the common computer DVD drive. For proof that this already works, see some extracted files here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19882773#post19882773). The extracted DSD track files are jumbled with the 80-bit encryption though, but we're reverse-engineering the encryption to take care of that. Hopefully ready quite soon.

2. a native (and signed) PS3 app might also be written (which is possible now that the master key for PS3 has been discovered and leaked), which means that with any SACD PS3 model, all you'll have to do is download and install the 'PS3 SACD Ripper' app, pop the disc in and click "rip" :). No complicated linux or hacked firmware or jailbreaking needed at all...

pretty good huh :D

v

[Ghitulescu]

1. a method for ripping using the common computer DVD drive. For proof that this already works, see some extracted files here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19882773#post19882773). The extracted DSD track files are jumbled with the 80-bit encryption though, but we're reverse-engineering the encryption to take care of that. Hopefully ready quite soon.

What is the procedure to follow?

[Midzuki]

^ SACD-Explorer :) :p :D

[vfalks]

What is the procedure to follow?when it is fully functional (decryption included), it will be shared. no use until then since it only produces unusable audio tracks.

...

oh no, it's Midzuki :p...good to see ya

[Ghitulescu]

when it is fully functional (decryption included), it will be shared. no use until then since it only produces unusable audio tracks.

Excellent, not that I have so many SACDs, but because it says again loud and clear: Studios, don't waste money in copy-preventing-protections, better treat us, the consumers, more fair.

[Midzuki]

when it is fully functional (decryption included), it will be shared. no use until then since it only produces unusable audio tracks.

A "non-functional" release would convince the impatient ones that those screenshots are not showing false information :devil:

oh no, it's Midzuki :p...good to see ya

Have we ever met ? Or corresponded ?? :)

And oh, BTW, what is the E.T.A. for sacd-author and foo_input_sacd ??? :p

[xkodi]

all of those SACD-is-hacked statements look like just an outrageous speculation, because as you can read here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/SACD-ripping-using-your-PS3-Linux-yes

that guy tries to convince us that:

>obtaining raw dumps of an SACD on a linux PS3
as simple as #dd if=/dev/sr0 of=sacd.dump


will create unencrypted image (dump) of the SACD layer, because only then his tool:

http://sacd-ripper.googlecode.com

can work, but come on are we supposed to be that stupid to believe such thing and are Sony that stupid to make it that way and just running in Linux PS3:

#dd if=/dev/sr0 of=sacd.dump

will magically decrypt all SACD protections like "Pit Signal Processing", etc.

sorry, but i don't believe it, i appreciate the effort and at least the tool here:

http://sacd-ripper.googlecode.com

seems to be able to work with not-encrypted SACD images, but once again there is no such thing as not-encrypted SACD image in the real-life world and it's even more ridiculous to claim such thing can be obtained from heavily encrypted SACD disc with just using "dd" (i.e. raw read) in Linux PS3 and announce SACD-is-hacked.

[vfalks]

thanks for your appreciation.

since I myself know this is happening (I'm updated with the details but don't think I should share until it's completed: what's the point anyway), I can just ignore sounds of doubts for now - I have no reason to prove what I know....yes i know he made it sound like it was complete when first announcing it....but that doesn't mean he's a fake, lol. it's being completed now ;)

[lchiu7]

Count me in as not a doubter but somebody very interested in how this pans out. While I might not rip my SACD's and put them on the server since I have both a PS3 and a Oppo SACD player so can play the content in either of my HT rooms, it's a very interesting exercise.

[Midzuki]

@ Mr. Falks :

any good-news on the horizon ? :confused:

As usual, apologies for my impatience. :)

[vfalks]

it is still being worked on. patience, world, patience. meanwhile, I have left the project entirely, and when it happens the ps3 guy will post and share it all for everyone.

don't chuck out your sacds that's for sure.

[vfalks]

An update sent to me today on SACD cracking : direct from the ps3 guy, the SACD copying saviour:

[i]"Let me tell you guys where I am right now.. The current status is that I can finally raw read SACDs from GameOS. Surprisingly this was the biggest hurdle until now (got this working last week!!), it turned out I had to re-authenticate the drive in order to allow disc access. But these functions (two lines of code) were hidden very deep in the shell and seemed completely unrelated to disc access :(, but I found them :)..

So reading and writing is finally working:
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/source/browse/trunk/sacdread/sacd_lv2_storage.c

Another thing I've been reversing is the communication with the SacModule (the module that authenticates the drive in order to decrypt the SACD, and also deals with the decryption of the revocation table (if the disc has one)):
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/source/browse/trunk/sacdread/sac_accessor.c

So at this point authentication seems to work, and the decryption process starts without errors. But... the "decrypted" data is wrong (problem occured yesterday, so still, very fresh..). In other words the drive is "decrypting" the data, but the key that the drive is using seems to be wrong.. so that's going to be the last hurdle.. and I hope that's not going to take the amount of time that I had to spend on drive authentication..!

...

btw. to speed up the process I've tried to contact others but I don't get any response or useful help from anyone.. :(

but.., I think you know by now I'm very persistent.. ;)"

So...it's looking hopeful. This guy really is dedicated, and we all owe him a huge thanks, if/once it is completed and given to us in what he at one point said is probably easy for him to just make it a natively signed PS3 app [this being possible thanks to the master signing key leaked by geohot] - not some complicated nighmare downgrading linux method. Additionally, he'll probably help to port the ripping code to windows so that you can connect the PS3 BD drive [easily buyable on ebay, from people's broken down PS3s where they sell the parts], to your computer, and rip it in windows that way. just then he said about this: "porting the authentication module is going to be tough though. Emulating an SPU and running the SacModule in there is probably your best bet. But then again, the PS3 is superior as it has all that in there..". and who knows what else will happen, once the initial method [just using ps3] is fully working and shared.

[Music Fan]

It seems that the PS3 rip procedure is not perfect and add a gap between some tracks ;
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?3341-Ripping-SACDs-the-right-way&p=73202&viewfull=1#post73202
I hope a solution will be found.

By the way, does anybody know if there's a way to merge several stereo Sacd albums (each making around 1,2 GB) to make a 4 GB ISO containing 3 albums ?
I guess one can't simply merge ISO, but I wonder if there's a way to extract the songs of 3 albums and re-create a structure with the songs of the 3 albums keeping it in Dsd (without Dsd to PCM conversion).
I believe that Sacd can't contain several titles that could be divided in chapters (songs in this case) like a Dvd, that's why I guess one has to re-create a new structure to change the number of the tracks following the first album (whose track's number don't need to be changed of course). If the first album contains 10 songs, the first song of the 2nd album would be the 11th song, and so on ...

[SeeMoreDigital]

By the way, does anybody know if there's a way to merge several stereo Sacd albums (each making around 1,2 GB) to make a 4 GB ISO containing 3 albums ?
I guess one can't simply merge ISO, but I wonder if there's a way to extract the songs of 3 albums and re-create a structure with the songs of the 3 albums keeping it in Dsd (without Dsd to PCM conversion).
I believe that Sacd can't contain several titles that could be divided in chapters (songs in this case) like a Dvd, that's why I guess one has to re-create a new structure to change the number of the tracks following the first album (whose track's number don't need to be changed of course). If the first album contains 10 songs, the first song of the 2nd album would be the 11th song, and so on ...
Have you tried to see if TSmuxerGUI or MKVmerge supports merging the extracted streams? I'd be interested to know...

[derbeDeus]

It seems that the PS3 rip procedure is not perfect and add a gap between some tracks ;
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?3341-Ripping-SACDs-the-right-way&p=73202&viewfull=1#post73202
I hope a solution will be found.

By the way, does anybody know if there's a way to merge several stereo Sacd albums (each making around 1,2 GB) to make a 4 GB ISO containing 3 albums ?
I guess one can't simply merge ISO, but I wonder if there's a way to extract the songs of 3 albums and re-create a structure with the songs of the 3 albums keeping it in Dsd (without Dsd to PCM conversion).
I believe that Sacd can't contain several titles that could be divided in chapters (songs in this case) like a Dvd, that's why I guess one has to re-create a new structure to change the number of the tracks following the first album (whose track's number don't need to be changed of course). If the first album contains 10 songs, the first song of the 2nd album would be the 11th song, and so on ...

You can't "simply" merge the ISOs. You were probably thinking to use regular tools for disc images, tools that work with ISO9660 and UDF filesystems. SACD ISOs are not like that, they have (in most of the cases) only their own filesystem, that can be extracted with sacd rip tools, only!

After you extract them, indeed you can use a SACD authoring program to mix a disc with whatever tracks you like (iirc, SuperAuthor from Philips).

[Music Fan]

Have you tried to see if TSmuxerGUI or MKVmerge supports merging the extracted streams? I'd be interested to know...
I don't believe it will work with dsd.

[Music Fan]

You can't "simply" merge the ISOs.
That's what I said.:p

After you extract them, indeed you can use a SACD authoring program to mix a disc with whatever tracks you like (iirc, SuperAuthor from Philips).
Thanks, I will take a look.
Is there anything to do to avoid the "click" (or gap) between tracks at the authoring ?
And I'd like to add titles if possible.
When we do this kind of disc (with Super Author), is it a real Sacd (without protections I guess), playable on all sacd players, or is it a Sacd-r, which can't be played on all players ?

edit : I forgot to ask what are the differences between Sacd, Sacd-r and Dsd Disc.
I guess that Sacd-r and Dsd Disc are different because PS3 can play Dsd Disc but not Sacd-r.
Is there still a watermark (or any other protection) on Sacd-r or is it removed when copied by PS3 ?

[Ghitulescu]

When we do this kind of disc (with Super Author), is it a real Sacd (without protections I guess), playable on all sacd players, or is it a Sacd-r, which can't be played on all players ?
This is the first time when I've heard of a SACD-R, so I'll join the question? Are these compatible with the existent standalones, do they work on PS3 only, or worse, on a properly-equipped PC only?

The question (my question) is of a pure intellectual one, as I don't have for the time being a SACD player.


edit : I forgot to ask what are the differences between Sacd, Sacd-r and Dsd Disc.
I guess that Sacd-r and Dsd Disc are different because PS3 can play Dsd Disc but not Sacd-r.
Is there still a watermark (or any other protection) on Sacd-r or is it removed when copied by PS3 ?
SACD and DSD discs are, if I may, like an CD-Audio versus a CD-ROM with WAV files, it lacks the SACD structure. For more informations have a look in some manuals of pro gear (like Tascam DV-RA1000) which can create such DSD discs.

[Music Fan]

Thanks, but I believe Dsd Discs are not as simple as dvd-rom containing audio files (in dsd), because there is a structure like said there ;
http://www.ps3sacd.com/dsddiscguide.html

[pandy]

What is wrong in conversion DSD to PCM? Is there any REASONABLE explanation? SACD ripping should be possible with modified SACD player, DSD stream is converted in D/A converter that support DSD at the input (however seems that at least TI, NPC, chips convert DSD stream to PCM so is there any PURE DSD D/A converter?)

Answering myself direct DSD mode is supported now only on CS4398 - is someone else made direct DSD D/A converters?

[derbeDeus]

When we do this kind of disc (with Super Author), is it a real Sacd (without protections I guess), playable on all sacd players, or is it a Sacd-r, which can't be played on all players ?

edit : I forgot to ask what are the differences between Sacd, Sacd-r and Dsd Disc.
I guess that Sacd-r and Dsd Disc are different because PS3 can play Dsd Disc but not Sacd-r.
Is there still a watermark (or any other protection) on Sacd-r or is it removed when copied by PS3 ?

SACD refers to original discs.
SACD-r refers to copies, discs burned on dvd+-r/rw.
There's no compatibility difference between a rip from a SACD and a disc you build with author program. It's just that you won't be able to write it to a disc with the watermark protection, so you'll have only a SACD-r, known to work only on some players. Afaik, the watermark protection is a physical one, so yeah, it is removed when ripping.

DSD discs are regular UDF discs that you create with decompressed tracks, put in folders, on a dvd. Usually, SACD discs have tracks stored with dst compression. There are tools to decompress them to dsd, but the catch here is that a dsd disc will be 3x bigger than its sacd source, so you need to fit in 4.37 or 7.91 GB.

[Music Fan]

Thanks, so the only difference between originals Sacd and Sacd-r is the watermark but nothing in the structure, right ?

Concerning Super Author, I read that it produces a BAT image that has to be converted to ISO to be burned on Dvd.
How to transform BAT to ISO ?
Can we simply open the BAT file and create an ISO with ImgBurn or a special program is needed ?

On this website are some free DFF stereo files (legal download) ; one can test Super Author with these files ;
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

Here is an interesting topic to follow, ozmillsy is apparently the developer of Sacd Ripper ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/36026-SACD-DFF-file-extraction-backups

About Scarletbook.exe, it seems to decompress DST to DSD, but is there a way to extract DST files from the ISO without decompressing them ? It could be useful to compile several albums on 1 dvd.
Maybe without registering DecoderComp.dll, as it seems to be used only to decompress DST, but I don't know if the program can extract files without this dll. Look at this post ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/36026-SACD-DFF-file-extraction-backups?p=541777&viewfull=1#post541777

As said in this post, Philips Protech DST Encoder can encode Dsd in Dst, but avoiding de-compression and re-compression would be simpler ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/36026-SACD-DFF-file-extraction-backups?p=544377&viewfull=1#post544377

[derbeDeus]

Thanks, so the only difference between originals Sacd and Sacd-r is the watermark but nothing in the structure, right ?
Yes. It's more to say that it's a rip and it's gonna go on a -r disc.


Concerning Super Author, I read that it produces a BAT image that has to be converted to ISO to be burned on Dvd.
How to transform BAT to ISO ?
Can we simply open the BAT file and create an ISO with ImgBurn or a special program is needed ?

Never used Super Author myself, but I imagine that it creates isos, eventually with another extension.

About Scarletbook.exe, it seems to decompress DST to DSD, but is there a way to extract DST files from the ISO without decompressing them ? It could be useful to compile several albums on 1 dvd.
Scarletbook, by default, only extracts the tracks as they are. It decompress them if you explicitly ask for it with -c option.

>scarletbook -? for help
>scarletbook --input=file.iso -P to extract

Most of the discs have tracks in compressed dst. There are some, though, to have dsd on stereo.

[Music Fan]

Thanks ;)

Never used Super Author myself, but I imagine that it creates isos, eventually with another extension.

Actually it's DAT and not BAT as i wrote above, sorry.
Anyway, if DAT is the only output format supported by Super Author, do you believe that ImgBurn could make an ISO with it ?
I never built ISO, I don't know how it works (but I can burn it of course).

[derbeDeus]

Thanks ;)


Actually it's DAT and not BAT as i wrote above, sorry.
Anyway, if DAT is the only output format supported by Super Author, do you believe that ImgBurn could make an ISO with it ?
I never built ISO, I don't know how it works (but I can burn it of course).

dunno, try it. rename dat to iso and burn it to a dvd-rw

[Music Fan]

I tried this method which worked (look at the 2nd post written at 22:38:07) ;
http://avaxhome.ws/software/software_type/multimedia/Audio_Editing/Merging_Technologies_Pyramix_Virtual_Studio_7.0.10_SP2_Build_11188.html

It's done for Pyramix but it works with Super Author (the lbm file has been done with Super Author, as said in the last sentence).

The main thing to know is how to make an ISO from the DAT (the file DVDIMAGE.DAT) : actually, it's useless because UltraISO can open the DAT and burn it. Don't forget to untick Use NeroAPI in config, burn. I guess one can build the ISO and it should also work if burned with ImgBurn.
I let it in Disc-at-Once and my Sony BDP-S370 could read it without clicks between tracks (actually 1 track divided in 3 with Super Author).

My pc can explore this disc while he can't with ISOs done by PS3.

I could make it thanks to the files given by this guy (dvdasacd), but I don't understand how to ;
-put different tracks in Super Author ; when I add a second track, the first track's properties change and become the same than the second ! Very annoying.
-know the tracks length (not detected by Super Author and it's apparently needed).
Thanks if anyone can explain it to me.;)

[derbeDeus]

My pc can explore this disc while he can't with ISOs done by PS3.


I think certain sacd authoring programs add udf filesystem aside from native sacd fs (scarletbook).
You can test this by loading the iso/dat in imgburn. When in Write mode it should tell you the filesystem of the iso.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'd be quite happy if I was able to re-encode multi-channel SACD streams to multi-channel PCM streams.

Indeed, a few months ago I bought Moving Pictures by Rush on Blu-ray disc. And have been most impressed with the format, as they can easily be backed-up to .ISO.

It's also pretty easy to create/generate muxes suitable for use with Blu-ray hardware players, complete with chapter points and video/still images...

[Music Fan]

@ derbeDeus ;
ImgBurn does not handle DAT in build mode (or maybe he can build an ISO from the DAT but there's no information about the DAT's content while UltraISO shows the files) and can't detect the filesystem of the PS3's ISO.
In Read mode, ImgBurn sees the Sacd created by Super Author as ISO9660 + UDF (1.02) -same format than dvd-video- but can't detect the filesystem of the Sacd burned from the PS3's ISO.

[Music Fan]

I'd be quite happy if I was able to re-encode multi-channel SACD streams to multi-channel PCM streams.
The first thing to do is to copy the Sacd with a PS3 with Sacd Extract which makes an ISO.
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/list
Instructions ;
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/source/browse/trunk/readme
Then you extract the dff files from the ISO with scarletbook.exe.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/Audio/scarletbook.rar
Then you can convert Dsd to PCM (2.0 and 5.1) with several programs like Weiss Saracon, KORG AudioGate, Philips ProTECH Audio Format Converter, Pyramix Virtual Studio, maybe DiscWelder and maybe Foobar with foo_input_sacd.dll ;
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/
More informations there ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/36026-SACD-DFF-file-extraction-backups

But Dsd will be converted in a multiple of 44,1 khz (88,2 or 176,4 khz) which is not supported by Blu-ray (or AVCHD), thus a frequency's conversion will have to be done, which is not ideal.
To avoid conversions, you can make a Dvd-audio which supports these frequencies.

[SeeMoreDigital]

The first thing to do is to copy the Sacd with a PS3 with Sacd Extract which makes an ISO.
Well it looks like "I'm out"...

I don't have a PS3 and have do desire to buy or borrow one :scared:

[Midzuki]

...
foo_input_sacd.dll ;
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/

Thanks :thanks: for the info, I wasn't aware of that :o

Anyway, it's good to know someone happened to take my suggestions seriously :D

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1474262#post1474262

[Music Fan]

I don't understand how to ;
-put different tracks in Super Author ; when I add a second track, the first track's properties change and become the same than the second ! Very annoying.
-know the tracks length (not detected by Super Author and it's apparently needed).
Thanks if anyone can explain it to me.;)
Does anybody know how to use Super Author ? :o

Actually, I found a way to know the duration of tracks : I add one track (dff file), I don't fill the duration, I verify the project ; a duration error is detected and the real duration of the file is given.
Then I copy this timecode in the duration box, I verify again and it's good.

Concerning my other question, I wonder if we can add several dff files in Super Author because I found that in the user manual's glossary ;
Area ;
A continuous piece of audio that contains all the audio tracks of an SA-CD disc in succession. The area is divided into tracks by specifying the track timecodes.
There are two types of area: stereo and multi-channel. The audio data for each area is contained in a file with the extension .DFF.

I wanted to test Super Author with the DFF files given there ;
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

If we have to merge the DFF files to add them as one DFF in Super Author, it's not practical.:(

I found that about the Sacd re-authoring ;
http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/SurroundSound@googlegroups.com/2011-09/msg00030.html
I'm quite not into re-authoring SACDs but afaik the workflow is as
follows:
1) Scarletbook or sacd_extract: SACD-R iso -> uncompressed DSD tracks
2) Number the DSD tracks according to the playing order
3) DSDMerge: DSD tracks -> one big DSD track + cue sheet
4) Compress the merged DSD with Philips DST Encoder
5) Philips SuperAuthor: SACD-R authoring with using the cue sheet for
track point information

[leperlord]

Does anybody know how to use Super Author ? :o

Actually, I found a way to know the duration of tracks : I add one track (dff file), I don't fill the duration, I verify the project ; a duration error is detected and the real duration of the file is given.
Then I copy this timecode in the duration box, I verify again and it's good.

Concerning my other question, I wonder if we can add several dff files in Super Author because I found that in the user manual's glossary ;


I wanted to test Super Author with the DFF files given there ;
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

If we have to merge the DFF files to add them as one DFF in Super Author, it's not practical.:(

I found that about the Sacd re-authoring ;
http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/SurroundSound@googlegroups.com/2011-09/msg00030.html


Can i plz bump this old thread

Ive been stuck on step 3 , DSDmerge for over a month or so . DSDmerge will not merge all the tracks no matter how big or small nor how i organize them . Any advice here is appreciated . I d also like to know where to purchase the 2 required Philips programs , Superauthor and DST encoder ,i go to Philips site and no items like that for sale are found . Or are there newer and maybe better programs now to use ? Please advise

Cheers

[Music Fan]

I did only a few Sacd authorings at the time I wrote this message so I don't know if there are newer/better solutions to do what you need.
But I guess you can't merge 2.0 with 5.0 or 5.1 (or 5.0 with 5.1) and compressed dsd (in DST) with uncompressed dsd.
And as I supposed in 2011, Super Author needs one DFF. To create index to access each track, use the timecodes created by DSDMerge (look at the cue file).

[Music Fan]

I found a message I wrote in a text file about DsdMerge ; actually it does not manage Dst ! So if you wanna merge Dst files (between them or with uncompressed dsd files), you first have to decompress them in linear dsd with Scarletbook. Look at its help ; you have to add -c in the command line to decompress dst and to do this you need to register the file DecoderComp.dll.

Then merge files and finally recompress it in Dst (with Philips ProTECH DST Encoder or other) to save space and put more tracks on disc.
And I believe Dst compression is mandatory for multichannel tracks.

[leperlord]

I did only a few Sacd authorings at the time I wrote this message so I don't know if there are newer/better solutions to do what you need.
But I guess you can't merge 2.0 with 5.0 or 5.1 (or 5.0 with 5.1) and compressed dsd (in DST) with uncompressed dsd.
And as I supposed in 2011, Super Author needs one DFF. To create index to access each track, use the timecodes created by DSDMerge (look at the cue file).

Thanks mate

Im understanding a tad more now , but not complete , i can be daft occasionally .

So i assume your telling me i can only merge either all files being 2.0 with other 2.0 , or 5.1 files with 5.1 files , no assorted of types it seems ? Is that correct mate ?

Im pretty sure i did that , but ill go back to the board again . I quote "To create index to access each track, use the timecodes created by DSDMerge (look at the cue file)."

That flew right over my head LOL . But do you mean theres a cue file created , and i must do something with it , or somehow the info in it ,and put it somewhere ?

Cheers

[leperlord]

I found a message I wrote in a text file about DsdMerge ; actually it does not manage Dst ! So if you wanna merge Dst files (between them or with uncompressed dsd files), you first have to decompress them in linear dsd with Scarletbook. Look at its help ; you have to add -c in the command line to decompress dst and to do this you need to register the file DecoderComp.dll.

Then merge files and finally recompress it in Dst (with Philips ProTECH DST Encoder or other) to save space and put more tracks on disc.
And I believe Dst compression is mandatory for multichannel tracks.

OWCH !!!!

That one hurt my brain LOL

I seem better off simply not mucking about with multichannel then , if i want M.C. Ill simply play the original disc in my 105 , so if my only interest is 2.0 and cherry picking my tracks from various sacds , i should be golden ? Or not ?

So to keep it simple only Extract DSD Stereo Files ?

Cheers

[leperlord]

Update

I used scarletbook , and only extracted DSD Stereo Files , i put those files in a folder with dsdmerge ,i run dsdmerge ,but all i get is a folder called CDImage with a cue file and another file in it . Yipes what am i doing wrong ? about a month ago i at least merged a portion of the files YIPES

Please advise more

[Music Fan]

i can only merge either all files being 2.0 with other 2.0 , or 5.1 files with 5.1 files , no assorted of types it seems ? Is that correct mate ?
Yes. But as you can guess, you can put 2.0 and 5.1 (or 5.0, but not 5.0 and 5.1 together) on the same disc, but in two different folders, thus there are 2 files in this case.

"To create index to access each track, use the timecodes created by DSDMerge (look at the cue file)."

That flew right over my head LOL . But do you mean theres a cue file created , and i must do something with it , or somehow the info in it ,and put it somewhere ?

Yes, Dsdmerge creates it and then you open it and copy its timecodes in the fields done for that in Super Author.

[leperlord]

OK now

I may have understood a tad more here ? dsd merge wont do dst ,so i figured i was smart (mistake lol) and executed Extract DSD Stereo Files , BUT in foobar they re still seen as dst ,so i see a bit of light , but im still lost in the dark . Tho i executed Extract DSD Stereo Files , am i still getting DST files ? And why ?

Please advise more(In language for dummies please LOL) as im real stuck on this step ,i cant imagine how horrendous the next steps are LOL

Cheers

[Music Fan]

i run dsdmerge ,but all i get is a folder called CDImage with a cue file and another file in it
You should get a big dff file.

[Music Fan]

OK now

I may have understood a tad more here ? dsd merge wont do dst ,so i figured i was smart (mistake lol) and executed Extract DSD Stereo Files , BUT in foobar they re still seen as dst ,so i see a bit of light , but im still lost in the dark . Tho i executed Extract DSD Stereo Files , am i still getting DST files ? And why ?

Please advise more(In language for dummies please LOL) as im real stuck on this step ,i cant imagine how horrendous the next steps are LOL

Cheers
As I said above, if you want to decompress dst in linear dsd, you have to use to good bat (if I remember well, some bat are given with scarletbook) ; use the one including -c
And if the stereo part is not compressed in Dst (multichannel is always in dst), I guess this -c won't change anything.
Try with and without : the size will change if there is dst (~half the size when compressed in dst).

[leperlord]

You should get a big dff file.

Then im making a huge error ,i need to go eat supper and re fuel ,ive been at this for so long

Maybe ill figure it out after i munch n re fuel

Please feel free to chime in as to where you feel i may be going wrong ? Ie is there some file prep i need to do before using dsdmerge on the files ?

Cheers

[leperlord]

As I said above, if you want to decompress dst in linear dsd, you have to use to good bat (if I remember well, some bat are given with scarletbook) ; use the one including -c
And if the stereo part is not compressed in Dst (multichannel is always in dst), I guess this -c won't change anything.
Try with and without : the size will change if there is dst (~half the size when compressed in dst).

OK

That seems alot for a dummy like me , so if i can ill steer clear of the dst multichannels and just go with the dsd stereo ,i dont have a surround system anyhow , will this save me this step ? It seems like way over my head

Cheers

[leperlord]

PS

i have never ran a command line in my life , i have no idea where to even start on such a thing

YIPES

[Music Fan]

Please feel free to chime in as to where you feel i may be going wrong ?
I guess it doesn't work because your files are still in Dst, thus decompress correctly the album (from the original Iso) with scarletbook.
Use the bat named "Extract DST Stereo Files", here is its content (open it as a text file, change its extension if needed) ;
@Echo Off
FOR /F "tokens=*" %%k IN ('dir /b *.iso') DO scarletbook.exe -c -i"%%k"
Echo Extraction Completed
Pause

[Music Fan]

OK

That seems alot for a dummy like me , so if i can ill steer clear of the dst multichannels and just go with the dsd stereo ,i dont have a surround system anyhow , will this save me this step ? It seems like way over my head

Cheers
Simply extract the stereo part with the bat file.

i have never ran a command line in my life , i have no idea where to even start on such a thing
Double-click on the bat file, it will launch the command line written in it.

[leperlord]

I guess it doesn't work because your files are still in Dst, thus decompress correctly the album (from the original Iso) with scarletbook.
Use the bat named "Extract DST Stereo Files", here is its content (open it as a text file, change its extension if needed) ;
@Echo Off
FOR /F "tokens=*" %%k IN ('dir /b *.iso') DO scarletbook.exe -c -i"%%k"
Echo Extraction Completed
Pause

OK i ate , and im a tad smarter LOL

So yes i opened Extract DST Stereo Files in notepad , but i have no clue what do do next , or what exactly to change

Thanks for your advice and patience for hanging in there mate

I see this as well

@Echo Off
FOR /F "tokens=*" %%k IN ('dir /b *.iso') DO scarletbook.exe -c -i"%%k"
Echo Extraction Completed
Pause


Cheers

[Music Fan]

So this file is good, simply run it. But the decompression takes time.

[leperlord]

will the torture never stop lol

The only bat that works is Extract DSD Stereo Files , the Extract DST Stereo Files creates only all the files as 1Kb in size each

Do i need to txt edit that bat somehow ?

Cheers

[Music Fan]

No, if the stereo part of this sacd is Dst compressed, this should work.
Otherwise, it's not compressed thus I don't understand why DsdMerge can't create a big dff.
If you got this file with scarletbook, double-click on it ;
ClickMeBeforeFirstRunOrAfterPathChange.cmd
And if you got pthreadVC2.dll and DecoderComp.dll, I guess you have to put them in your system32 folder and register them.

[leperlord]

No, if the stereo part of this sacd is Dst compressed, this should work.
Otherwise, it's not compressed thus I don't understand why DsdMerge can't create a big dff.
If you got this file with scarletbook, double-click on it ;
ClickMeBeforeFirstRunOrAfterPathChange.cmd
And if you got pthreadVC2.dll and DecoderComp.dll, I guess you have to put them in your system32 folder and register them.

Im red faced embarrassed now, you wont even believe how red .

I didnt do that in system32 folder , nor do i have ClickMeBeforeFirstRunOrAfterPathChange.cmd file , NOR do i know how to register those mentioned .dlls , i put them in system32 folder , but when i click on them im asked what to open them with . How do i register them and do i need the ClickMeBeforeFirstRunOrAfterPathChange.cmd file ?

Cheers

[leperlord]

OK i found scarletbook r268 qnd i have ClickMeBeforeFirstRunOrAfterPathChange.cmd file in there , i double click it and error i get says "the module was loaded but the call to .dllregister server failed with error code....

Am i close yet ?

[Music Fan]

nor do i have ClickMeBeforeFirstRunOrAfterPathChange.cmd file
This cmd file was maybe given with only one version and thus may not be useful if you didn't get it.
For the dlls, put them where you want (actually I believe they do not have to be absolutely in system32), for example in C: (which makes => C:\DecoderComp.dll), and then go in start, run, and type regsvr32 C:\DecoderComp.dll, ok, do it for both dlls and it should be ok.
Then try again Extract DST Stereo Files.bat.

[Music Fan]

OK i found scarletbook r268 qnd i have ClickMeBeforeFirstRunOrAfterPathChange.cmd file in there , i double click it and error i get says "the module was loaded but the call to .dllregister server failed with error code....

Am i close yet ?
Register first the dlls as I said just above, then try this cmd.
If there is again this error message, it may not be a problem, sometimes the registration works even when an error message appears.
Then try again scarletbook.

[leperlord]

Damn again

This is hell

I put the dlls directly in c and ran the command ,but dll was loaded but the entry point dllserver not found , im almost in laughing tears at this point

A thought , im on 64 bit win 7 , maybe the dlls are 32 bit , so will they ever work ?
Cheers

[leperlord]

Register first the dlls as I said just above, then try this cmd.
If there is again this error message, it may not be a problem, sometimes the registration works even when an error message appears.
Then try again scarletbook.

Nope Still creates 1 kb files for each track

UGH

[Music Fan]

im on 64 bit win 7
This could be the problem.
As said in the readme file, "on Windows 7 or Vista, make sure you're running as administrator".
And if you are already running as administrator, I don't know why this does not work.

[leperlord]

I dropped the dlls as mentioned directly in c:/

then at regsvr32 C:\pthreadVC2.dll that worked

But the other dll and click me first wont work

But im slowly extracting the Extract DST Stereo Files now , wohoot

Now should dsd merge , merge files from this now ? or is there YET another step ?

Cheers

[Music Fan]

At the end of this process, you should get several dff (one by track).
I believe there's a way to extract the whole album in one file, but in this case, I don't know if a cue with the timecodes is created. Anyway, this mode is not very useful for what you wanna do.
When the decompression of this album will be done, you can try Dsdmerge which should work (try with only 2 tracks just to see what happens).
And then use again scarletbook for other albums, gather the tracks in the order you need (by adding numbers in file names from 01 to xx) and run Dsdmerge. Don't forget to remove tracks you don't need from this folder.

[leperlord]

OK mate man this ways so slow , any particular reason ?

Ill post results as soon as i have em

PS im sending u a personal msg mate in a sec

[leperlord]

Wooohooot

DSD merge did it , i have a large file and a cue

So whats the next step to make this an sacd ? Yipes

i prob dont have time tonite,but im curious as heck

Cheers

[Music Fan]

So whats the next step to make this an sacd ?
After merging files with DsdMerge, you need Super Author (or another tool of this kind, there are rare).
Super Author creates some files, including a big DAT ; you can open it in UltraIso which can burn it or convert it to iso.
I read that in UltraIso's options/burn tab, Use NeroAPI had to be UNticked.

[leperlord]

After merging files with DsdMerge, you need Super Author (or another tool of this kind, there are rare).
Super Author creates some files, including a big DAT ; you can open it in UltraIso which can burn it or convert it to iso.
I read that in UltraIso's options/burn tab, Use NeroAPI had to be UNticked.

And will this big dat file at some point be made an sacd/iso ?

Cheers

[Music Fan]

I'm not sure to understand your question, this will become an sacd when burnt on dvd with Ultra Iso.
I believe it's better to burn the DAT with Ultra Iso, I'm not sure the ISO it can create would be recognized by other tools (including imgburn).

[leperlord]

I'm not sure to understand your question, this will become an sacd when burnt on dvd with Ultra Iso.
I believe it's better to burn the DAT with Ultra Iso, I'm not sure the ISO it can create would be recognized by other tools (including imgburn).

OK maybe i understand

Super Author creates some files, including a big DAT
and that big DAT i burn to dvd , which results in an sacd ?

[leperlord]

I may have to finally rest now , maybe LOL

Im on step 4) Compress the merged DSD with Philips DST Encoder

I get a 800+mb file from an original dsdmerged 3+ Gig file . Is this normal ? Have i lost some information , or done something wrong ? It seems a radical reduction in size ,tho in foobar it displays the same track time ,and plays as well

Cheers

[Music Fan]

If foobar plays it correctly, I guess it's good, the compression is maybe more important than what I remembered.

OK maybe i understand

Super Author creates some files, including a big DAT
and that big DAT i burn to dvd , which results in an sacd ?
Yes, but you could still have a bad surprise after all these efforts : some players don't play sacd-r.:o
Here is an incomplete list of tested players ;
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/wiki/SACDRCompatiblePlayers
The messages below this list include some other players.

[leperlord]

Hey mate

Im up and back at it ( a multi task kinda day here tho )

We left off where i created the philips dst encoded from the DSD merged file (PS the DSD merge wasnt only 1.7 gig not 3 ,sorry i made an error in reading. philips dst encoded creates a 804 MB file from that . In foobar DSD merge file is DSD64/5645 kbps/176400 .philips dst encoded is DST64/2400+kbps/176400. DSD merge creates a cue file , but philips dst encoded does not .

Now im onto the Philips superauthor step ,and YIPES , i have no idea where to even start ,where and what to choose and load . It seems obvious i somehow put the philips dst encoded in superauthor ,but thats as far as my brain takes me . Can you please walk me thru this as you did the other steps ?

Cheers

[Music Fan]

I didn't use it for 1 year and it's not even installed on my pc anymore.
But don't worry, it's not very difficult, I discovered it myself without explanations.
Anyway, you will need to read a little bit the help.

[leperlord]

If foobar plays it correctly, I guess it's good, the compression is maybe more important than what I remembered.


Yes, but you could still have a bad surprise after all these efforts : some players don't play sacd-r.:o
Here is an incomplete list of tested players ;
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/wiki/SACDRCompatiblePlayers
The messages below this list include some other players.


Thanks again mate

i thought i should update you as i seem completed now . Well it appears i met the bad surprise you spoke of . After many painful hours i managed to get success with superauthor ,i burned a disc from that info ,BUT my Oppo 105 didnt recognize it UGH !!!! Can i ask how old that list of supported players is ? Maybe it came out before the 105 ?As i see older Opps on the support list . I was assured it will support this type ,but perhaps i was misinformed ,or i made some error ? Perhaps i need DVD+R ? Just guessing

Thanks mate its been fun to learn anyhow

Cheers

[Music Fan]

my Oppo 105 didnt recognize it UGH
Astonishing, as the BDP-83 plays Sacd-r.

perhaps i was misinformed ,or i made some error ? Perhaps i need DVD+R ?
I can't answer to this, continue your tests and, if possible, try to play your disc on another player supposed to play sacd-r. If it doesn't work, it means you failed somewhere.
Did you untick Use NeroAPI in Ultra Iso's options ?

You can try to burn the original ISO with Ultra Iso or ImgBurn on a dvd-rw to see what happens.

In the comments below this french test, the tester says the 105 plays Sacd Iso burned on dvd-r ;
http://www.hdfever.fr/2012/12/08/test-oppo-bdp-105eu/comment-page-5/#comment-24426
Oui, les ISO S.A.CD gravées sur DVD-R sont lues
=> written in the post of january 16 @ 15H05.

[leperlord]

Astonishing, as the BDP-83 plays Sacd-r.


I can't answer to this, continue your tests and, if possible, try to play your disc on another player supposed to play sacd-r. If it doesn't work, it means you failed somewhere.
Did you untick Use NeroAPI in Ultra Iso's options ?

You can try to burn the original ISO with Ultra Iso or ImgBurn on a dvd-rw to see what happens.

In the comments below this french test, the tester says the 105 plays Sacd Iso burned on dvd-r ;
http://www.hdfever.fr/2012/12/08/test-oppo-bdp-105eu/comment-page-5/#comment-24426

=> written in the post of january 16 @ 15H05.


SUCCESS at last

My error was using nero ,i retried with imgburn , and Bobs yr uncle LOL , im so tired , yet so pleased . Wohoott !!!!

What a long tedious process that is,sure is harder than an mp3 rip HAHAHAHA

i hope i remember how to do it again ,getting the time codes correct at the verify stage is the hardest , i kept guessing and after a few hours got it right

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

After many painful hours i managed to get success with superauthor ,i burned a disc from that info ,BUT my Oppo 105 didnt recognize it UGH !!!! Can i ask how old that list of supported players is ? Maybe it came out before the 105 ?As i see older Opps on the support list .
Out of interest, what happens if you transfer the SACD compliant files to USB pen-drive. Will the Oppo play them?

[leperlord]

Out of interest, what happens if you transfer the SACD compliant files to USB pen-drive. Will the Oppo play them?

Which files do you mean ? The original dffs ? Or ? Apparently Oppo has firmware coming that will make 105 a usb dac..so i can play dffs from my laptop to Oppo .Nice .

[leperlord]

PS

Heres something i just noticed , please advise me if theres need for alarm .

The files i successfully authoured show a much lower kbps than the original .dffs ,Ie originals are 5600+ kbps , where the authoured are 2200+ kbps , and those fluctuate up and down , where as the originals hold at a steady kbps .

At the risk of sounding alarmingly new , is this detrimental to the SACD sound atall ? And so much im better off sticking with the originals , and suffering the loss of having select tracks ?

Also a small thought , is this discrepancy caused by the philips dst encoding step ? And is the philips dst encoding a necessary step ? Its benefits seem to me to compress and fit more on a disc ? But is that worth any trade off in possible sound quality loss ?

Cheers

[Music Fan]

No loss, that's of course a lossless compression.
And yes, it allows to fit more on a disc, which is the aim of a compression.

originals are 5600+ kbps , where the authoured are 2200+ kbps , and those fluctuate up and down , where as the originals hold at a steady kbps .
I guess it means DST is VBR (not CBR), but don't worry ; if Super Author accepted these files, it means there are compliant with the Sacd norm (the scarlet book).

[leperlord]

Thanks for clearing that worrisome matter up mate

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have just given Sony's 'DSDtoPCM Playback Plug-in' a try (which works with Windows Media Player and Media Player Classic). But sadly its limited to stereo and its transcoding abilities are not great.

I'm aware that Foobar and J River offer DSD decoding but their applications are, well 'huge'. As they offer encoding, decoding along with loads of other functions!

So... Does anybody know if someone's working on a stereo/multi-channel DSD decoder filter with maybe even bit-streaming capabilities?


Cheers

[Ghitulescu]

The first thing to do is to copy the Sacd with a PS3 with Sacd Extract which makes an ISO.
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/list
Instructions ;
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/source/browse/trunk/readme
Then you extract the dff files from the ISO with scarletbook.exe.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/Audio/scarletbook.rar
Then you can convert Dsd to PCM (2.0 and 5.1) with several programs like Weiss Saracon, KORG AudioGate, Philips ProTECH Audio Format Converter, Pyramix Virtual Studio, maybe DiscWelder and maybe Foobar with foo_input_sacd.dll ;
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/
More informations there ;
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/36026-SACD-DFF-file-extraction-backups

I wonder whether there is a guide for gapless discs (live, electronic music etc.), sort of BIN+CUE....

[Wilbert]

I moved all the posts about gapless playback to this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171666.

[jz1276]

Hey guys.
Looking to convert a ripped ISO from a SACD to multichannel flac files.
Is this possible on a Windows PC?
Any help is appreciated, thanks!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hey guys.
Looking to convert a ripped ISO from a SACD to multichannel flac files.
Is this possible on a Windows PC?
Any help is appreciated, thanks!Things have moved on quite a lot since this topic was started, way back in 2011...

In order to unpack the .iso image file to either dsd.dsf or dsd.dff audio streams, you can use 'Sonore ISO2DSD GUI' (http://www.sonore.us/iso2dsd.html).

Once you have the dsd.dsf or dsd.dff audio streams (which can be played using MPC-BE by-the-way), you can then use FFmpeg to encode them to FLAC. I have converted all mine to FLAC at 88.2Khz @ 24-bits (for use with my OPPO SoC hardware media player), using the following command line: -

ffmpeg -i input.dff -ar 88200 output.flac

[jz1276]

Things have moved on quite a lot since this topic was started, way back in 2011...

In order to unpack the .iso image file to either dsd.dsf or dsd.dff audio streams, you can use 'Sonore ISO2DSD GUI' (http://www.sonore.us/iso2dsd.html).

Once you have the dsd.dsf or dsd.dff audio streams (which can be played using MPC-BE by-the-way), you can then use FFmpeg to encode them to FLAC. I have converted all mine to FLAC at 88.2Khz @ 24-bits (for use with my OPPO SoC hardware media player), using the following command line: -

ffmpeg -i input.dff -ar 88200 output.flac

Great. I'll give that a shot, thanks!

[NanoBot]

Another way would be to use Foobar2000 and the foo_input_sacd component, available here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/

[chainring]

Yet another way is extracting from the ISO using XRecode3 and encoding to WavPack, which is completely lossless if that's your goal.

[binaryflow]

Sorry for being the weirdo necroposter...

What about this in 2023?

What about Open Source tools? What about doing this under Linux?

Thanks in advance!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sorry for being the weirdo necroposter...

What about this in 2023?

What about Open Source tools? What about doing this under Linux?

Thanks in advance!What exactly do you want to do?