Encoder program for low bitrate anime?

[ProDigit]

Hi,

I have older anime, from the late 80's, with no real 3D effects, just panning, kind of looking like a flash animation of todays web pages named Kinnikuman.

The source anime is encoded in mp3 48kHz, MPEG4 H264 640x480 23.98 fps.

The average filesize is 175MB for a 24:30 min episode.

Since the episodes are humor, old, and the subs are well readable, and they are mainly on my hd for storage, I wanted to recompress them with minimal quality loss to an extremely small filesize without making it unviewable. Reduce the resolution to 320x240 pix, and reconvert the audio to low bitrate aac audio.

I once saw a guy who managed to get several minutes (I think near to 8 minutes of HD anime) in a I believe 1 MB filesize or something... can't clearly remember, where compressed to an older format it would take up much more space. It surprised me so much, and the anime, though clearly shaky (15fps) looked very sharp and detailed!



Which program is easy to use, does a reasonable fast and high quality job in compressing low bitrate anime,and is free?, and which codecs do I need to get and install?

I hope to end up with a visual quality near to the original source (save for the pixels difference), and hope to slash the filesize by 50% or more (perhaps even save them as 35MB files if possible).

The only thing I can't do is manually modify bitrates from every piece of the movie. I prefer dual or n-passes for automatic optimization of the compression. I don't have too much time to spend fiddling on the conversions.

Suggestions?

[Selur]

Suggestions?
best look into the avisynth usage section and the anime related threads to filter you material before reencoding with x264

[Dark Shikari]

The problem at that bitrate is actually the audio, not the video. Once you get down to 50kbps video, the audio starts to eat up tons of your bitrate, and if you make it too low bitrate, it sounds unlistenable.

Here's my low bitrate anime example (http://x264.nl/developers/Dark_Shikari/Flash/lowbitrateanime.html).

[smok3]

based on example from Dark Shikari, it is certainly possible, i'd try with audio at around 45 kbps (i just did a lot of test with low bitrate audio using neroaacenc a few days ago and lower than that is just a pain (for me)), that will lead to 150 kbps left for video (which should do for 320x240).

Shikari probably used :

x264 --crf 42 --preset placebo --tune animation

or something similar

and maybe some preprocessing?

(p.s. go for a crf preset that targets your file size approximately and not for bitrate managed encode)

[Ghitulescu]

Load it on youtube - they will definitively encode it with low bitrate :p

[AnonCrow]

The source anime is encoded in mp3 48kHz, MPEG4 H264 640x480 23.98 fps.
Depends on the bitrates used in the source,
but I find that I get quite adequate audio quality
even with mp3 @ 32 Kbps , after I've downmixed it to mono and 24KHz,

and decent enough video at less than 100 Kbps if I halve the framerate and resolution
and encode with CRF 22-24, even with a fast or faster preset.
Those combined would put it under 1 MB per minute.
Usually I don't reduce the resolution quite as much -
may only downsize the horizontal res to 368/400/480
and vertical to whatever it'll be , depending on source aspect ratio.
Assuming the subs are burned to the video, 320x240 might make the text not so easy to read.

[ProDigit]

Depends on the bitrates used in the source,
but I find that I get quite adequate audio quality
even with mp3 @ 32 Kbps , after I've downmixed it to mono and 24KHz,
....
Assuming the subs are burned to the video, 320x240 might make the text not so easy to read.

First, I find that mp3 with lower than 64kbits is not very good audibly, has a lot of artifacts.

I wanted aac, because I heard of someone who could make the bitrate lower and better sounding than wma.

In my experience WMA (thanks to it's crystallizer technology) sounds better than ogg for bitrates lower than 48khz.
If I had a choice, I would encode audio in ogg format for anything above 80kbps, and anything below with wma.

For movies of TV quality I would have chosen to convert into WMA 9 Pro 42 or 44kbps stereo files. Worst case 32khz 32kbits WMA for like newscasts or things without music.

But seen that AAC has an even better algorythm (perhaps VBR instead of CBR?).

As for the source, it has pretty large subs, so the lowered resolution will not pose a problem in displaying the text clearly.


I will look in the avisynth section. So far little luck on finding out who encoded the anime and which program he used (more than 6 months ago).
I'm not sure I need any other filters on the anime, it would be nice if avisynth would do npasses.

I also would not go for CBR video encoding. My aim is to get it as small as possible, so VBR is preferred (especially since the anime has many passive, non high motion scenes).

[Blue_MiSfit]

Well, of course you'd do VBR encoding! Nothing so far has suggested CBR :)

This would be extremely important at very low bitrates.

Derek

[ProDigit]

after running my first script of avisynth, I decide to keep the resolution, not that it matters that much,but most of the subtitles that used to be white, with a small black border, become white without the black border.

I might be better helped if I'd find a program that allows me to reencode the video to avc and aac.

I used to use flaskmpeg but I don't know if they support avc, seeing it's such an old program..

I also am unsure if I have an avc encoder on my machine.
Decoder yes, but I haven't seen an encoder yet; so I'll be searching for it now..

[ProDigit]

Ow, almost forgot to mention,
the source is mkv file, and Nandub is not able to load mkv files...

Edit: YAMB does not give me enough encoding options,and seems to crash upon processing the video.

[Dark Shikari]

Doing hardsubs while going for low bitrates is generally a horrible idea.

[Blue_MiSfit]

ProDigit,

What's your source here? It sounds like you're trying to re-encode something you downloaded, which we unfortunately cannot help you with (rule 6).

If you're going from a DVD (or other) source that you own, then we can talk.

Derek

[ProDigit]

ProDigit,

What's your source here? It sounds like you're trying to re-encode something you downloaded, which we unfortunately cannot help you with (rule 6)....

That's a ridiculous statement! I'm merely asking for a way to reconvert existing material for personal storing purposes, which has nothing to do with it being legal or not. It just happens to be that the source material is mkv.

2- I assure you that all the materials are not licensed here, and that I haven't broken local laws in obtaining the source material.
Neither am I affiliated with any organization distributing illegal material. The encoded material merely will be a test project for personal development, and at most will remained stored for backup purposes, but will not be shared.


Either way, I'm asking a very legal question, for a way to reconvert mkv files. A program that can load such a container, and convert it into the highest video and audio compression format known.

avc and aac has sparked my interest not as much as what I'm encoding, but to see how well the encoder does it's job, and how flexible it is.

I can always encode my webcam stream into this format, but I wanted to see for myself how less demanding scenes like older anime would compress,and how high of a compression ratio was feasible to achieve with still having reasonable quality.

[nm]

I'm not sure I need any other filters on the anime, it would be nice if avisynth would do npasses.

AviSynth is not an encoder but a video editing and filtering system. Encoders do passes and with x264 you only need one with constant quality (CRF) rate control or two in target bitrate/size mode.

Edit: YAMB does not give me enough encoding options,and seems to crash upon processing the video.

Yamb isn't an encoder either, it's an MP4 muxer that puts previously encoded video and audio streams in an MP4 container.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Well... forgive me for being obtuse but I don't know of any distributors who release their content using the MKV container.

[ProDigit]

Well... forgive me for being obtuse but I don't know of any distributors who release their content using the MKV container.

Bringing up the topic again?
A lot of people content is.

So is there, or isn't there a program that can load mkv to re-encode it. Flaskmpeg and nandub don't seem up for the job...

[Ghitulescu]

So is there, or isn't there a program that can load mkv to re-encode it. Flaskmpeg and nandub don't seem up for the job...
I think you have to find it yourself, as nobody from this forum would help you now, since a mod questioned the legality of your source.

[TheRyuu]

Bringing up the topic again?
A lot of people content is.

Really? Name one.

[ProDigit]

Really, animesuki.com is full of anime that is freely available online, not licensed in USA, and has hundreds of mkv's. Happy now?

But even if, the illegality of my question can not be proven or unproven (which I think is just a childish game)...
Instead the world would be a better place if people would just be allowed to answer a question without thinking bad behind it.
I mean, if you buy anything in a store you don't ask yourself the question if the profit of the store is used for illegal purposes or not; if you give some coins to a beggar, you don't tend to think he's going to use it for drugs..(although a lot of people do, and use it as an excuse to not give to beggars, even if they honestly are going to use the money (invest it) in a good cause, like getting back on track and in getting a job...

I think the whole attitude is just plainly wrong. I think accusing someone,or even questioning him even when he's not guilty of doing any wrong, is just as wrong as doing the wrong!
That's my opinion about it!

Now it is not a concern of legality, I know doom9 forum has never really been helpful in finding answers, especially because 90% of what they do is used for illegal purposes, and anyone with legal questions will be treated as such (as someone who does illegal stuff).

Now that you (finally) may believe that there is a legal use of converting from mkv to avc (mp4), I perhaps can go back to the original topic of the thread; namely best video and audio encoder program to convert mkv to mp4..?... please..?

[nurbs]

I'm curious, since you knew that this forum has an attitude as well as rules you don't agree with and that the people here are never helpful why did you decide to sign up anyway?

[Inspector.Gadget]

I know doom9 forum has never really been helpful in finding answers, especially because 90% of what they do is used for illegal purposes, and anyone with legal questions will be treated as such (as someone who does illegal stuff).

The fact that you and every other person who finds himself on the business end of Rule 6 repeat this nonsense justification ad nauseam doesn't make it true.

[TheRyuu]

Really, animesuki.com is full of anime that is freely available online, not licensed in USA, and has hundreds of mkv's. Happy now?

Berne Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works)

[Emess]

Really, animesuki.com is full of anime that is freely available online, not licensed in USA, and has hundreds of mkv's. Happy now?So because you live in America, it is legal for you to steal from a company overseas? Incidentally, the company that owns the copyright for Kinnikuman, Toei Animation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_Animation), is also a registered company in the USA as of June 12th, 2000. While the material was created before that date, the copyright is still owned by an American company even if it isn't licensed for distribution, so in that regard you are still breaking US law.

E~

[ProDigit]

good excuses, if you don't know the answer it would have been better you told so.
Seems none of you pineheads know the answer, but not that it matters now. I've found more sources that aren't as paranoid as the rest of you.

good night, and to the operator, you may close this thread.
And close my account for what it's worth. It seems there are better sites than this one (full of copyright crap, which none of the promoters follow).

[Profanity removed]

Bye all you fakers and ***** :)

[ProDigit]

bwahahaaa!

[Inspector.Gadget]

Seems none of you pineheads know the answer, but not that it matters now.

Is a person who can't spell "pinhead" really in a position to question others' knowledge?

It seems there are better sites than this one (full of copyright crap, which none of the promoters follow).

♫ They call him Captain Butthurt... ♫