CINEMA CRAFT HDe Lite Edition

[Davesmitty]

Cinema craft has a lite edition of their HD encoder. From comparing the specs to the full edition it has most of the features but lacks:
Editing for the Quantize Matrix
Preview for filters, Proprietary Pre-filtering, and Multi-functional Filters
Preview for special effects

I have not seen a price for the software.

[Biggiesized]

I've heard it's $15,000, but I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this thread.

[FrontierDK]

$75.000 is not available for anything but Hollywood studios. $15.000 is available for medium size companies...and maybe, one day, via "grey places on the net", to the end users as well.

[G_M_C]

CCE was THE encoder of the DVD-reencoding era. You know, the time when you read remarks like "9 pass CCE" in NFO's. It seems the name CCE has stuck in the minds of many people. People that dont know that its better to use x264.

But this is just my observation of 2 cent worth ;)

[Astrophizz]

The Criterion Collection uses CCE. I would hope they have a good reason for doing so.

[G_M_C]

The Criterion Collection uses CCE. I would hope they have a good reason for doing so.

Yes, they probably have. But for - by far - the most people on this board, x264 should do the trick nicely.

[nm]

The Criterion Collection uses CCE. I would hope they have a good reason for doing so.

They have also sponsored x264's Blu-ray compliancy testing (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1454520#post1454520), so I'd guess some x264-encoded releases are about to come out.

[weasel_]

We all looking forward to that.

[mp3dom]

Disney-Pixar is another 'house' that uses CCE in all their BD. Anyway, like I've said in the past, I haven't found an encoder out there that can handle every footage optimally. Every encoder have its pro and cons points (quality-wise) or footage where it performs better than another.

[kolak]

Blu-code+ CC-HDe+ x264 (for low bitrate) and sorted :)
All major authoring houses use CC-HDe.

Andrew

[cjplay]

Blu-code+ CC-HDe+ x264 (for low bitrate) and sorted :)
All major authoring houses use CC-HDe.

Andrew

Not all. GDMX is using Blu-code.

[Blue_MiSfit]

For those who are interested in why you would use a "pro" encoder as opposed to open source software, it basically boils down to a few things:

1) Support - i.e. being able to point the finger at someone else if there's a problem (this is really sad, but 100% true). Also, being able to hit the ground running without having to learn anything about open source tools like avisynth, ffmpeg, or what have you.

2) Name / Image -i.e "this encoder is what was used for hollywood blockbuster A, B, and C, all of which are noted for excellent picture quality in reviews"

3) The GUI / workflow - i.e. "let's re-encode this short section with special settings, maybe even with manual region-of-interest".

4) (sometimes, and less related to BluRay encoding) Deep support for "pro" formats like MXF, ProRes, DNxHD. Also, deep support for "pro" features like closed captions / VANC data, complex transport stream muxing (though this is kind of unrelated). Finally, support for stitching lots of disparate formats together. Carbon Coder excels here.

These are the big ones. I use x264 and other free/open source tools quite a lot every day in my job, but that's mainly because I come from this world. For most decision makers, this is not the case, and they're all too happy to go with the "pro" solution.

For these privileges, you pay a lot. x264 is AMAZING for many many tasks, but not everything (yet) :)

Derek

[Ghitulescu]

You're right, Derek.
I know lots of people thinking that if they get (how? ;)) a professional tool (be it software or any other physical device) this, by the power of the word professional written on it, will do anything they want, a sort of one-click automatic (no-brain), best-quality, and fast solution. And when they get one, then they realise that there are options to set that they have absolutely no idea what's their meaning, that the formats and/or I/Os differ from "normal" ones, and finally they get into various fora for help (if they paid for it, they would have had the official help, too; and by the time this support ends, they should have learned a lot).

[mp3dom]

I don't think all professionals are searching for one-click brainless solutions. The example is HDe itself. You can say anything about it but you can't say it is easy to setup. IMHO is easier to setup x264 than HDe, even if HDe has a GUI behind. Also 'pro' formats like MXF/ProRes/DNxHD are actually not supported at all. It works mainly with planar YUV 4:2:0 and uncompressed YUY2/v210 (AVI or MOV). It's a lot more user-friendly Blu-Code or CineVision for example (even if they still aren't a one-click solution).

Personally I use AviSynth and x264 daily for my job but I'm asking if all the people here that says all the good about x264 (I'm referring to BD only now) have ever compared/tested the results to HDe or Blu-Code (or other encoders) themself without reading comments online made by other peoples. I had the lucky to made a lot of comparison between different encoders using the same source, so I think to have made a good idea when a job needs x264 or when another encoder would suit better.

Just my 2 cents.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Oh, definitely. I wasn't referring to CC HDe specifically when I mentioned all those special formats - that was more of a Carbon Coder / Flip Factory / Digital Rapids thing - all of which I lump into the "pro encoder" category.

I didn't look too deeply into the quality comparison for x264 versus CC HDe or Blu-Code etc. To be honest my company doesn't deal with BluRay authoring :D

[Ghitulescu]

I don't think all professionals are searching for one-click brainless solutions.

I was wrongly understood.

I said that people tend to think that a professional is a dumb that uses pro tools, and they can do the same good job if they can get his tools (the magic wand). It's not entirely their fault, as this view is aggressively promoted by marketing (I like to call it: The 29.95$ branche).

[pepelugil]

I had the lucky to made a lot of comparison between different encoders using the same source, so I think to have made a good idea when a job needs x264 or when another encoder would suit better.

Could you please share your findings? It would be very interesting to know where x264 fails compared to "pro" encoders in order to know if the great investment is needed when jump to "professionally" work with blu-rays.

Greetings

[mp3dom]

Oh, definitely. I wasn't referring to CC HDe specifically when I mentioned all those special formats - that was more of a Carbon Coder / Flip Factory / Digital Rapids thing - all of which I lump into the "pro encoder" category.


Ah, sorry I misunderstood you. Don't know digital rapids, but Carbon and Flip Factory are more 'farm' oriented. In general they makes sense when you need to ingest a lot of input with lots of output, so the investment is covered by the lot of time savings (watch folders or predefined templates). Those two programs anyway doesn't offer any 'segment encoding' feature (at least not Carbon) but offers multiple audio/video/muxers support which can be really needed based on your main workflow. They aren't cheap but even not too much expansive (Carbon stays in the 5K$). Surely x264 or ffmpeg (something similar to Carbon that can handle lots of formats) at 0$ can be extremely good but it is understandable that not all people can sit down on a chair spending time in compiling .BAT files or writing hundreds of commands at the command prompt


I was wrongly understood.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood you too. Anyway, I've seen lots of 'professional' that simply doesn't understand what they were doing, switching fields on a video and doesn't recognize it and so on...


Could you please share your findings? It would be very interesting to know where x264 fails compared to "pro" encoders in order to know if the great investment is needed when jump to "professionally" work with blu-rays.

I will wrote it when I have a free moment... maybe this weekend.

[Ghitulescu]

I will wrote it when I have a free moment... maybe this weekend.

Even if I can't get my hands on a pro encoder because of its price, it's still interesting to know this freeware competes with big names.

[k-c-ksum]

only thing i can see lacking in x264 is bluray compliant mvc encoding

[kolak]

Cinemacraft HD Lite is discontinued.
List of customers (juts from USA re-seller):

http://www.cinemacraftusa.com/customers.php

There are many more in Europe.

Andrew

[Biggiesized]

Where did you hear that the Lite version was discontinued? You can still download it from the CINEMA CRAFT website...

[kolak]

Discontinued- check Cinemacraft USA site- exclusive seller- product taken off.
It's going to be new product, new name.

[Biggiesized]

Are they changing any of the features in this "new" version?

[kolak]

Don't think so- nothing sure yet.