My first XviD experience

[rui]

Well, my first XviD experience was…GREAT! :)

I encoded the movie Entrapment (PAL) with both divx4 and XviD, to 1 cd. I used neutral bicubic in the avs file and the resolution, following divx4 comp check, was 640x272. I choosed in gnot a 700MB size for the cd. The XviD file was exactly 700MB in size, while the divx4 file, in spite that I choose for this codec 720MB for the cd size, was 690MB… :rolleyes:
The movie has 1h48m22s. It took divx4 about 1h49m per pass. XviD took 1h42 in the first pass, and 1h48 in the second, maybe because here I turned on Luminance masking.
I used in both passes motion search precision 5 (very high) and quantization type H.263
Maybe my settings made XviD faster than divx4, maybe if I turned search precision to 6 it would be slower, but as –h pointed out, it isn’t worth the increment in encoding time. The second pass in XviD was made using Gnot to calculate the curve.
I used 25% quality encoding in both codecs to do the credits part. XviD credits file was smaller than divx4 one.
And the quality of XviD is a bit superior, IMHO, to divx4. XviD is sharper than divx4, like SBC was, but doesn’t have the blocks in dark scenes that SBC had. Divx4 picture looks a bit washed out in comparison to XviD picture.
So, for this to be a perfect world, I just wished Gnot supported automatic encoding in XviD like it does to divx4 or SBC. Right now it takes a lot of user input to create an XviD movie. One has to make the audio part, then go to Vdub to do the credits part, then do the first pass, the go to Gnot to calculate the curve, then go to Vdub to do the second pass, then go to Nandub to join movie and credits and finally join all movie with audio. Uff…
By the way, Nandub worked great in joining the credits with the movie.
So here it is, XviD has a great future ahead of it, at least in my computer.:D

[Klumsy]

Well I just tried my first movie with xvid.
I took the settings from doom9's guide for 2CDs
i used no filters and sharp bicubic.
with the internal 2nd pass the filesize was about
the filesize i wanted it to be.
the curve correction of gordian knot gave me a 200MB
undersized video.
but the results weren't really good both ways.
lots of blocks, blurry image, smearing.
With the same settings i used Divx4.12 and everything
went okay and goodlooking.
I also tried short scenes (about 10secs) and they all
looked crappy and i tried all the settings.

high-action scenes do look really good and sharp but
low-motion scenes have the problems i mentioned above.
is there some kind of tweaking in the settings of the
codec to solve this?
does lowering the quantizer help? is there still enough
bitrate for high-motion scenes? is there an option to
control how agressive the quants are raised?

[Head Hunter]

I agree with rui. I did my second XviD rip last night and it came out to 700 megs, and looked very good. I don't know why your results were so off. Did you use the most recent build? If not you must have set something in Gknot wrong.

[-h]

but the results weren't really good both ways.
lots of blocks, blurry image, smearing.
With the same settings i used Divx4.12 and everything went okay and goodlooking.
I also tried short scenes (about 10secs) and they all looked crappy and i tried all the settings.

Sounds like you either:
- had lumi masking switched on for both passes
- had motion search precision set below 5
.. or ..
- are using some super new improved build of DivX 4 ;)

What was the DVD you were encoding? And the target bitrate / settings?

-h

[Teegedeck]

Yes, please also tell us your setting for 2-pass in GKnot and your settings for encoding short scenes in detail.

[Klumsy]

The DVD was Terminator2 (i know it hasn't got the best quality and is a bit noisy)

sharp bicubic, no noise filter
Search precision 5, MPEG, no luminance masking in both passes.
resulution: 608*254
target filesize: 1270MB

Yes it kinda looks like luma masking on:
black and bright area are very blocky.

I'll try another one, maybe i get better results
then.

On my slow computer (700MHz) it will take about 12hours
i'll be back with the new results ;)

[Dali Lama]

I have also used the general settings with Xvid.
But I also applying a low temporal filter.

The results from a 2 hour movie on one cd are incredible.
There are very little blocks and lots of details. The results from a 1 1/2 hour movie are also great on one cd. This movie, Rush Hour 2, I have encoded 10 times!!! In different codecs and settings. The best results came from xvid!! Yes, its true.

The only thing I believe is hindering this codec is the decoder, which is not specific to the codec. If the post processing filter is applied then I don't think it helps much except for dumbing down the quality.

Not bad for a developing Codec!

Dali

[Klumsy]

Well, i now tried another movie: heartbreakers

it gave me a much better result
the movie is a bit noisy, so it's a good test for the codec ;)

but there is still something that i don't like:
sometimes the edges of the video are blurry.
(0.5 - 1cm wide on the whole edge)
dark objects on bright backgrounds and vice versa have blurry
edges too. (e.g. text)

i try to use search precision 6 now and hope this will
improve the picture.

i hope i am not too demanding :D

the XviD filters give a much better result than the one by DivX4.12


i'll be back with news soon

[gldblade]

If it's a noisy source, you probably want to add a noise filter in. It will improve the quality depending on the source.

And search precision 6 is really not worth the extra time.

[rui]

Well, i am about to encode my second movie with XviD.
This time i will use the internal second pass.
Later i will publish here the results.

[Klumsy]

No I don't want to use a noise filter cause then the whole movie gets blurry.
I want the picture be as sharp as possible. When I do such noisy sources with DivX4, the noise is taken nearly exactly, so it is still sharp (sharp as DivX4 can be ;))

btw: which one is sharper, h.263 or mpeg?

[rui]

I believe -h said that MPEG is sharper than H.263, but i think MPEG still has some bugs.
Please someone correct me if i am wrong

[Nic]

If you want to use the MPEG quantizer then use the XVID decoder. the DivX decoder does not handle MPEG quantizer correctly.

-Nic

[-h]

MPEG will produce a 'sharper' image with the same given quantizer - I just use it because the frames are so much smaller when MPEG quantization is used.

There aren't any bugs in MPEG quantization in XviD - the bug is in DivX 4.x. The next release of DivX might fix this playback problem (seeing as it's not MPEG4 spec-compatible at the moment), but if you use XviD to decode the video, you'll notice that the artifacts are gone.

That is, unless you use the newest build which seems to introduce some interpolation bugs on 3DNow! machines :)

-h

[Dali Lama]

I'd like to try the Xvid decoder for my 4 Xvid encodes

How do I set it to use that and to use that for default?

Thanks,

Dali

[saVe]

download the fourcc changer and open your video file. type XVID into "fourcc used codec" and apply. maybe the file won't play back in bsplayer but with powerdivx it works perfectly.

[rui]

Originally posted by saVe
download the fourcc changer and open your video file. type XVID into "fourcc used codec" and apply. maybe the file won't play back in bsplayer but with powerdivx it works perfectly.

Damn! :scared:
All my divx are burned into cd's. So i will not be able to change the fourcc, correct? Unless i copy the avi's to HD, change the fourcc and then burn them again, correct?

[-h]

All my divx are burned into cd's. So i will not be able to change the fourcc, correct? Unless i copy the avi's to HD, change the fourcc and then burn them again, correct?

I believe Nic's compiles may have removed DIVX from the available input pins? Haven't checked.

Anyway, if you uninstall the DivX directshow filter, the XviD one should kick in in it's place, thus playing your DivX content (and perhaps your DIV3/DIV4 content some time soon as well..)

-h

[Nic]

I haven't changed anything, but:

In

HRESULT CXvidDecoder::CheckInputType(const CMediaType * mtIn)

There exists this bit of code:
switch(hdr->biCompression)
{
case FOURCC_XVID :
// case FOURCC_DIVX :
break;

default :
return VFW_E_TYPE_NOT_ACCEPTED;
}

if that case statement hadn't been //'d then what -h said would be true. However, the Merit is set to MERIT_PREFERRED which means that if it wasn't commented out, it _might_ always override the DivX decoder. Maybe this should be looked into.....

-Nic

[rui]

O.K.

To Nic: So, i'm no programmer and i didn't quite follow what you said above :(
But, if i did understood you well, i believe that you are saying that if i uninstall divx4 direct show filter, i will not be able to play divx4 avi's with XviD direct show filter, correct? However, XviD avi's would play just fine?
Or you are saying that the only way i have to use the XviD dshow filter with my Xvid avi's was to change the fourcc code directly in the avi's?

Isn't any way to install XviD dshow filter, and automatically detecting if the avi is divx4 or XviD, and then use the corresponding dshow filter, like divx4 does when detecting a divx3 avi?

Ah, life is full of questions :p

[-h]

With DIVX commented out (as above), the XviD dshow filter will not play DivX4 content. It probably shouldn't at the moment either, as post-processing is quite necessary for the kind of bitrates most people seem to target..

As for DivX content playing with the DivX dshow filter and XviD content playing on its own, all without changing any FourCC's, I don't believe it can happen.

When dshow filters are queried as to the FourCC's supported, they are queried on the "description" code. The "description" code contains DIVX, even when encoded by XviD, because this forces the use of a dshow filter that supports DIVX decoding.

Actually I spoke too early - if the XviD vfw frontend is edited to create content with XVID as it's "description" FourCC, then it'll work as you want it to.

At the moment, however, there are many more people who would be inconvenienced by this, than benefited. Setting the "description" to XVID would mean anyone without XviD installed couldn't play the movie, and perhaps this is a higher cost than a some post-encoding FourCC changes ;)

-h

[rui]

First, thanks for your explanations ;)

Now, on to some more questions: :)


Originally posted by -h
As for DivX content playing with the DivX dshow filter and XviD content playing on its own, all without changing any FourCC's, I don't believe it can happen.

Why? If divx4 can do it, why XviD can't, in future? When i first installed divx4, i said no when asked if i wanted divx4 filter to play divx3 content.


Originally posted by -h
Actually I spoke too early - if the XviD vfw frontend is edited to create content with XVID as it's "description" FourCC, then it'll work as you want it to.
At the moment, however, there are many more people who would be inconvenienced by this, than benefited. Setting the "description" to XVID would mean anyone without XviD installed couldn't play the movie, and perhaps this is a higher cost than a some post-encoding FourCC changes ;)
-h

So, regarding my already burned XviD avi's, i am in a dead end, right?

Sorry for keep coming with more and more questions...

P.S Just one more thing. Is there any way to get the XviD logo bitmap or jpeg, like it is in the codec tab, in the "about" tab? Thanks again

[Nic]

Ok, heres the deal, your CD's are burnt with the DIVX FourCC & therefore will be played with the DivX Decoder.

If you want them to be played with anything else, then you've gotta change the FourCC (re-burn them) or I could compile the XVID Decoder to playback DivX. But then all your DivX4 content would be played back with the XVID Decoder. Simple as that. Unless.........How about a registry setting that sets whether the xvid decoder reads divx content or not? what do you think -h?

For now dont worry about it, it will be a while before the Xvid decoder gets good post-processing. The only problem is the DivX decoder when it comes to MPEG quantizer but DivX will eventually change this (theyll have to, to keep MPEG compatability)

-Nic

[rui]

Originally posted by Nic
If you want them to be played with anything else, then you've gotta change the FourCC (re-burn them) or I could compile the XVID Decoder to playback DivX. But then all your DivX4 content would be played back with the XVID Decoder. Simple as that. Unless.........How about a registry setting that sets whether the xvid decoder reads divx content or not? what do you think -h?
-Nic

Hum... That registry ideia. How it would work?
It seems an interesting thought ;)

It would be something like having 2 reg files, one for enabling Xvid to decode every divx4 or XviD avi, and another to restore the divx4 reading divx4 avi's?

[Nic]

It would work just as you specified.... :)

-Nic

[avih]

hi
afaik zoom player (my favourite)let u customize dshow filters and save each setting to different file. i didn't try using it but seems to me u can make it to use xvid decoder (or divx) upon conf, without touching your burned avi files.
imho worth a try.

[rui]

Originally posted by avih
hi
afaik zoom player (my favourite)let u customize dshow filters and save each setting to different file. i didn't try using it but seems to me u can make it to use xvid decoder (or divx) upon conf, without touching your burned avi files.
imho worth a try.

Thanks. If it works, this is a GREAT tip.
I will download Zoom Player right way

[rui]

Originally posted by avih
hi
afaik zoom player (my favourite)let u customize dshow filters and save each setting to different file. i didn't try using it but seems to me u can make it to use xvid decoder (or divx) upon conf, without touching your burned avi files.
imho worth a try.

Hum.. I already downloaded and tried Zoom Player 2.4, but I’m having some difficulties in the filter section.
How can i create a filter file that uses the XviD Fourcc ??

[Nic]

You cant do it using Zoom Player. The XVID decoder wil not allow connect to DIVX files (unless you modify the source & recompile)

Cheers,
-Nic

[rui]

O.K.

To avih: Didn't work, but thanks anyway.

[-h]

Re: registry key - this is possible (a checkbox that says "decode DIVX content as well as XVID"), it's just a matter of changing the FourCC association in the registry and system.ini (depending on what version of windows you're on).

I'll stick it on the list of things to do. Hopefully I won't be playing cricket today, free afternoons are rare.

-h

[rui]

Great! Looking forward for that checkbox.

But that would only make sense if it is implemented sooner than later, because the DivX guys will eventually change the decoder and the problem will be gone.

[Klumsy]

Hi there, back again with news :)

I just did Tigerland, 97mins, 720*384 on 2CDs
The video looks very good, though it is a noisy source I used no noise filter in order to keep the picture as sharp as possible.

XviD DSF looks much better than the one of Divx4.12
If post processing will be added soon (i hope so) i hope the quality
will be even better.

The only thing is, that it compresses dark scenes a bit too much for my taste, so blocks come up. I hope this will be gone with the post-processing too.


I keep on testing ;)

[rui]

Klumsy, im am still using the divx DSF. Even without the post processing, you still mantain that XviD picture using Xvid DSf is better than by using the Dvix one, that has post processing?
Not doubting your word, just want your opinion on this, since i haven't tested the Xvid DSF.
To use it, you just choosed to use the XviD fourCC in the encode process, and instaled the DSF using xvid.ax and regsvr32.exe, right?

[Klumsy]

Yes, in my opinion it just looks better, cause with DivX4.12 DSF there are some macroblocks that it can't handle correctly.
And I don't know why but it just looks better to me ;)
Normally, when you install the codec, the dsf is installed too automatically.

Just have a look for yourself. Everyone has a different opinion of good-looking :)

[rui]

Krumsky, thanks for your reply. Now another question:
I read in the XviD faq that Doom9 posted, that without the divx post processing, one could get, when seeing the picture in full screen, more macroblocks.
Also, i believe that you have to drag the xvid.ax file over the regsvr32.exe file to install the XviD DSF.
But, on the other hand, using the XviD DSF we shouldn’t get any bugs with the MPEG quantizer. Did you experienced any problems with the MPEG quantizer?

[Klumsy]

Have a look in the xvid.inf. there you find this:

[MPEG4.DoReg]
;HKLM,Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunOnce\Setup,"Registering XviD Direct Show ;Decoder...",,"%11%\regsvr32.exe /s %11%\xvid_c32.ax"

that registers the filter automatically :)

Yes, there are some macroblocks but they are not that disturbing
in my opinion. A little post-processing filter should eliminate
most of them.

i only face the mpeg problem when i use the DIVX fourcc.
Pink or green pixels or blocks popping up.
Using the XviD DSF evrything is good

[Nic]

Clumsy, the inf doesn't install the xvid.ax
(rui is correct, because he has infinite wisdom & read my ReadMe.txt :) :)

I tried changing the inf so it would on my install, I didn't correct it right, I should try again......

Cheers,
-Nic

[rui]

Thanks for compliment :D

[Klumsy]

Well all I can tell you is that it installs the filter for me. I don't know, what you are doing wrong :p

I used to use uManiac's binarys and the last few from Koepi.

Well rui, did you try the filters or not?
cause seeing fot yourself may give you the best conclusions ;)

[Nic]

Im surprised Klumsy, because the .inf refers to xvid_c32.ax and the file is xvid.ax.....

-Nic

[rui]

Hi, Klumsy, sorry for taking so long to reply, i have been way.
Yes, i already tried the XviD DSF, but there is one problem: the majority of my encodings are 1 cd rip. So, if i don't have any post processing, i noticed much more the blocks.:(
So, at least for now, i will remain using the divx4 post processing.

[Ripe73]

Well i use DivX DSfilter to watch the quality and before i burn the movie i change it to Xvid Dsfilter.

[Klumsy]

Oooops nic... that was my mistake...

all i can tell you is that i never installed the filter manually... at least i think so... hmmm i really can't remember... damn i'm getting old *g*

rui: yes, for 1CD rips post processing might be very valuable... as i want the best quality i always go for 2CDs or sometimes for 3 if the movie is too long or too badly compressible.