Standalone vs. PC-enabled mediaplayer

[yetanotherid]

You are now a versed PC user. In 20 years time (or 30 or 40, I don't know your real age, but I'm assuming something like 20) you'll be completely outdated and unwilling to install thousands of patches and hacks on your PC (or whatever this will be called in 20 years). If you're not an American you'll end with an automatic Mercedes and an auto-configurable standalone (the Amis have this already).

When I gave my father a DVD player I had to spend an hour tying to explain to him when to use the extra remote and why he has to change TV inputs and then write it all down in detail so he could switch back to TV again, but that doesn't have any relationship to my PC and whether it functions perfectly as a media player either.

Any software that uses the "obsolete" MPEG-2 codec (used in DVD and DVB among others) has to pay one or more licences (i know there are some tricks not to pay NOW but this precedent would have as consequence the changing in the licensing terms for the next codec) so the programmers cannot distribute free DVD players (at least in the USA) that work out-of-the-box. If one is in business of selling such applications, they must even more obey some criteria or they will be soon out of their business (nobody of their size can stand a trial in court).

The question was:
"How hard is it to install MPC-HC and in what way does it perform illegally?"
I live in Australia.

For my computer, it does create videos and play them only as a control (editing and stuff). Anyone creating audio and video does care about "designed for", their business depends on the correct choose of their tools.


O/T. The subject is playing media.


Concerning the BD case, its specs are evolving, this is why this happens. Besides, the standards are not flawless created and allow such "modifications".

You're just making excuses for your preferred playback device after it was pointed out that your argument against PCs applies to standalone devices too.
It's okay for a standalone device to evolve until for a brief period before becoming obsolete it actually works properly.... that's okay and every other semi-evolved standalone was still designed to perform the same task.... but when it comes to a PC there's no evolving.... it doesn't matter if today's PCs come with surround sound audio cards, video cards enabling them to be hooked up to monitors and TVs using all the normal "standalone" connections, CD and DVD drives (it's funny but I noticed a while ago some PCs these days even come with internal hard drives just like the more expensive personal video recorders) and it doesn't matter whether they're often sold with fully functional media playing software or even if the entire OS is a media playback dedicated version..... for the purposes of this discussion the PC's task is the same now is it was back in the 80's.... to help you balance your cheque book and to make beeping noises while you play Pong. It's fairly hypocritical if you think about it objectively.

[Ghitulescu]

O/T. The subject is playing media.

You accused me of pirating things with my computer. When you knew perfectly well that I use my computers to process and create videos and music.

Considering you live now in Australia, well, let's talk in 10 years from now, the first step has already been made. Maybe you'll move to Tasmania, then to Cook Islands and so on, but you'll get caught eventually even in the middle of the Amazonian rainforest ... The IP offensive is now extremely hard to be stopped, as the lobby of the industry is much more influential to the politicians than their voters. Damn I hate Orwellian scenarios.

[yetanotherid]

You accused me of pirating things with my computer. When you knew perfectly well that I use my computers to process and create videos and music.

No, I only asked because you included a rant on piracy as part of your latest "designed for" rationalisation and I couldn't understand why you'd even mention it in relation to a discussion on whether a PC can function as a media player.

Considering you live now in Australia, well, let's talk in 10 years from now, the first step has already been made. Maybe you'll move to Tasmania, then to Cook Islands and so on, but you'll get caught eventually even in the middle of the Amazonian rainforest ... The IP offensive is now extremely hard to be stopped, as the lobby of the industry is much more influential to the politicians than their voters. Damn I hate Orwellian scenarios.

I was born in Australia, but I assume your "scenario" was offered to accuse me of being a pirate and maybe to additionally show when it comes to the actual topic under discussion you've completely lost the plot?
For the record:
Australian ISP iiNet Wins Piracy Court Case (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/iinet-slays-hollywood-in-landmark-piracy-case-20100204-ndwr.html)

[Ghitulescu]

No, I only asked because you included a rant on piracy as part of your latest "designed for" rationalisation and I couldn't understand why you'd even mention it in relation to a discussion on whether a PC can function as a media player.
Was brought into the discussion as the PC is much more "competitive" in playing downloaded content than any SA (I remember the days when the first Divx-enabled DVD players hit Germany, the great enthusiasm was soon followed by the most deep disappointment: they were not able to play divx-encoded movies that have some options set, like QPEL and some others I don't care to remember because I don't use them; everyone was so happy they could download and see the lastest movies instead of purchasing the DVDs, one can imagine the disillusion).
I was born in Australia, but I assume your "scenario" was offered to accuse me of being a pirate and maybe to additionally show when it comes to the actual topic under discussion you've completely lost the plot?
For the record:
Australian ISP iiNet Wins Piracy Court Case (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/iinet-slays-hollywood-in-landmark-piracy-case-20100204-ndwr.html)
I'm not accusing anyone, I just say that the PC platform was, is and will be the target of the media content industry, as they see in it the ideal hacking tool. While, as you remember what I said earlier, the SAs are manufactured to restrict as much the unauthorised copying (actually, for most people, to restrict the copying as such), they are designed to play (except when they use computer parts, scroll back to see my explanation there).

I don't know whether Murphy collected this law or not, but everything that was successful would be eventually destroyed (would be the victim of its own success).

[yetanotherid]

Was brought into the discussion as the PC is much more "competitive" in playing downloaded content than any SA (I remember the days when the first Divx-enabled DVD players hit Germany, the great enthusiasm was soon followed by the most deep disappointment: they were not able to play divx-encoded movies that have some options set, like QPEL and some others I don't care to remember because I don't use them

I'd be suprised if there's still many DivX DVD players which can play encodes using QPEL or GMC because I don't think they're part of the DivX certified specification, but it's been a long, long time since I've seen an AVI which uses either of them. I think the only real standalone DivX problem you come across these days is trying to play video which has too high a bitrate.

No doubt similar problems while arise with DivX capable BluRay players. I did come across the official DivX "profile" for encoding to HD DivX but I'll have to get around to looking for it again because I think it differed from the actual BluRay "profile" a little.... sigh.... and even though I officially don't care, I know sooner or later I'll probably want to play some encodes on a standalone, or someone else in the house will, and I'm not sure any of my encodes to date would play on a standalone unit.

While, as you remember what I said earlier, the SAs are manufactured to restrict as much the unauthorised copying (actually, for most people, to restrict the copying as such), they are designed to play (except when they use computer parts, scroll back to see my explanation there).

The trouble is, out of this whole discussion on the ability to play media, with the exception of the issue of automatically adjusting refresh rates which was bought up earlier, I've still not heard anything which would indicate a standalone unit.... even when confining the discussion to the limited types of media a standalone can play.... is better at it than a PC.

[Ghitulescu]

Well, let's start again, but please, pay attention this time:

A SA CD player can play copy protected CDs (unless it uses computer optical assemblies - see, even here the computer manages to break an otherwise good thing). A PC can't do this, one has first to rip the CD using tools that under certain jurisdictions are considered illegal. A SA CD player can output both analogue and digital signals of a better quality than a PC (unless one buys special HW and SW, which is rather an exception than a rule). A regular PC, not only costs more (a "designed" HW card is generally as expensive as a good CD player) and consumes maybe 10x more electricity, but generates noise in analog and digital and also resamples the CD audio to 48 before outputting it, again A and D. it also generates ambient noise (fans, HDDs, loud CD drives etc.).
That one does not hear the noise below -50dB and does not sense the distortions in treble, is not an argument, it's a pathetic excuse, and it was used and reused also in the dispute MP3 vs WAV.

I think (I'm not sure) that playing DVDs in analog, would suffer from PAR issues. PAR distortions are anyway small. Playing DVDs in digital (HDMI, DVI) seems to be Ok, as long as one can stand the PC monitor screen.

The BD case is again something that reminds me of the CD case, see 2 § above. The playback of an original BD is a tricky matter, and it's quite difficult for someone less than average to set the system up, that no SD instead of HD video and no 2.0 instead of 5.1/7.1 audio is obtained. One has to rip the BD in order to get an acceptable effort/pleasure ratio. The only set-up an A/V-line needs is the configuration of the AVR and/or BD player to obtain 7.1/5.1 sound. Which set-up is more or less automatised.

PC is better in playing formats that have never been issued from the industry (but obtained therefrom), like MP3 and/or divx (it doesn't matter whether the MP3 conversion is done on the user PC's or done by the industry self, like the music online shops). It is also better (if not being the only device) that can play 1280x544 H.264 coded videos (which do not exist outside the PC world). It can also play strange "little monsters" like VFR coded 641x237 realmedia videos and stuff. Things that would never existed should the PC never existed. If I may: iPhone is better than another XYZ smartphone in that it does play iTunes music. This seems to be one of the pillars of your argumentation.

And a PC cannot play SACDs, it cannot rip them either, then play.

[Blue_MiSfit]

This thread is really dumb, and rather cyclical. If you guys want to continue your discussion, please do so over PM.

Derek