Desperate and drained: please help

[digifruitella]

I have spent the last two days trying to encode a video on which I have spent a month - a month - editing. I am desperate to the point that I am slowly losing any interest in even uploading it and sharing it with the world.

First of all.

I have edited it on Premiere Pro CS5

It plays back just fine IN IT. Full rich colors, perfect audio/video synchronization.

My video relies heavily on audio/video synchronization actually - it's the WHOLE point of it.

I created a sequence that was 23.976fps, with audio 48Khz

My audio was actually 44Khz.

it plays back fine, syncs well.

Upon export, I've tried 44, and 48 I think but there's about 2, or 3 instances where the video lags by a split, millisecond - but enough to tell "something is wrong"

That is Problem 1.

Problem 2, upon export; colors are washed out. I've researched this online and it seems that when you export to h264 in .mp4 container - you're bound to get this "bug"

I've looked online for an answer, an all seems to point to x264 method.

Problem again, I find that anyone who uses FCP gets it easier, as they can download the x264 Encoder.dmg and just move it to a folder and it'll read in Apple Compressor.

I use Premiere Pro - not FCP. I'm just lost.

Is there a way that I can take my video timeline from Premiere Pro, and somehow encode that whole project with x264 ON A PC?

Please help. I know I'm asking for a lot here, and for your time to write up a few answers... but even if not - please at least point me to some tutorial, or a guide where someone tried to encode OUTSIDE of Premiere Pro. It seems that x264 method gets rid of the gamma shift.

I would just hate it to have spent an entire month editing something that I won't be able to share with people. Just blows. Straight up..and it's such an awesome video. Ugh... I hate it when stuff like this happens. It's like on purpose.

Please help.

Thank you in advance

[simps]

For your "color washed out" issue with x264 encoded files, check this thread.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=157023

If you have NVIDIA card, this is the solution for that issue:

NVIDIA Control Panel -> Video & Television -> Adjust video color settings -> Select "With the NVIDIA settings" -> Advanced tab -> Set Dynamic Range to "Full (0-255)".

[Blue_MiSfit]

Hi, and welcome! Don't give up, we can help!!! :)

Problem #1 (audio sync) may be a little tricky to resolve. The moral of the story is that you shouldn't drop 44.1 KHz content in a 48 KHz project! There should be some way to fix this, and preserve sync. My suggestion would be to adjust the project settings back to 44.1 KHz, and then export as 44.1. Premiere is probably using a less than ideal resampling algorithm to interpolate 44.1 to 48.

Problem #2 can be easily fixed by reading the thread simps linked to. The problem isn't the encoding per se, but rather how your player is displaying it. Which player are you seeing the issue on?

You might say "but I don't want my viewers to have to go through this!", and you'd be right to say so :) If necessary, you can export your project as an intermediate format like Lagarith or HuffYUV, and do a TV to PC luma levels conversion in AviSynth, and then do your H.264 encoding using x264. That way, it will look correct "out of the box" in Flash, QuickTime etc...

Derek

[digifruitella]

I'll come back to this thread tomorrow to give a more in depth response to both of your posts.. thanks a lot of responding btw.

But for now I'll post a comparison picture

also, the washed out colors are like that not only when I play it in kmplayer for instance, but they're like that on Vimeo as well

but anyways.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/digifruitella/comparison.jpg

[Blue_MiSfit]

Can you provide a sample of your encoded output?

Derek

[creamyhorror]

What you need is x264vfw, a VfW codec that you may be able to export to from Premiere. Grab it from http://komisar.gin.by/ (get one of the VFW-versions, not the CLI-versions). After installing it it should show up on as one of your export options in Premiere.

There may be compatibility problems (I'm not up to date on its development), but you should definitely give it a try. The discussion/help thread for x264vfw is here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1389681#post1389681).


edit: about the colors being washed out, there's a known bug in the Quicktime exporter that causes a gamma shift during playback. But you're not using Quicktime afaict, so the problem should be something else.

[julius666]

But for now I'll post a comparison picture

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/digifruitella/comparison.jpg

That's definitely PC->TV conversion.
You should try to export it to a lossless format (like UT Video (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Ut_Video_Codec_Suite.htm)). If it looks all right, than feed the video simply to x264.exe.

If not, then the problem is in premiere pro.
Look for "fullrange", "color conversion" or something like that in the video conversion/project settings (sorry but i'm not very familiar with premiere pro).

[Lyris]

I would also look in to exporting it as a lossless AVI file and then sending that to x264 as a separate step.

BTW, you think a month is bad? I've been working on a 30-minute short film for over a year now. (Actors!!!)

[audyovydeo]

I've worked with Premiere from the days of 4.2 to Pro 2.0.
It uses RGB internally, so you have to figure out what / how many colour conversions you have along your production chain.

As many people here have pointed out already, what you have there is *not* a Premiere problem.

As regards audio synch, are you mixing many different sources into premiere ? Taking the cue from Blue_misfit's suggestion you might want to convert (or keep) every source into one same format before working them in premiere.

good luck.
audyovydeo

[Mug Funky]

try to export the timeline in that timeline's native format (ie the codec indicated in the sequence settings dialogs).

with the audio issue, try blue_misfit's suggestion first, and if that doesn't work try resampling your audio externally and dropping it into a new track to sync with the original. without seeing your project i can't tell if this is do-able.

yes, sadly, FCP users have it much easier on this front. but even then, it's a sore point actually getting a project out of it. getting it right requires knowledge of what the program is doing. knowledge that the program's abstraction layer actively attempts to conceal from the user for "ease of use".

basically, don't export end-formats out of an editing program. export a high quality intermediate (uncompressed or barely compressed i-frame format), and encode that on the outside. if disk space is an issue, it shouldn't be - a month's important work should be done on a machine that's up to the task. but i speak in ideals here...

debugmode frameserver or some equivalent may help you here if you trust the program (premiere is crap, as you've no doubt realised by now).

maybe one of these days i'll write an EDL conform tool for avisynth... but that seems like it would be opening a can of worms so big it would destroy us all.

[audyovydeo]

... (premiere is crap, as you've no doubt realised by now)....



Dontcha find it funny that suggesting "best" is forbidden in this forum, but not suggesting "worst" ... ?


I'm a longtime fan of Premiere, and I still prefer using Pro2 (even though it doesnt do H.264). But then ergonomics is a highly subjective science (just like video quality hey ... ;-)

cheers
audyovydeo

[Blue_MiSfit]

Mug Funky has a good idea in externally resampling your audio (eac3to and many other tools will do this), and re-linking it into your 48 KHz project as well - provided resetting the project to 44.1 doesn't work :)

Derek

[digifruitella]

here is the video. http://vimeo.com/15290830

password: 0dessa

Tell me how it plays back for you, or if you see any moments where "it doesn't sync well"

Concerning UT Video - I installed it, how do I find it in Pro? I'm not seeing UT Video anywhere.. only if I go to Microsoft AVI, under Video I can see Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit

[Blue_MiSfit]

Fantastic little video! Really, well done!

The sync does seem a little bit off... I'm assuming you wanted each edit / overlay to time up perfectly with the beats in the audio?

Just so we're clear - the video you posted on vimeo doesn't exactly represent how you see playback inside premiere - at least from a sync perspective.. correct?

Derek

[digifruitella]

Yes correct.

I want the visual to be synced perfectly with the "clap" and the "beats"

in Premiere, when I play it back - it's perfect... but not on Vimeo.. it sucks so much. I hate it, because I don't know the actual problem.

Whether it is output related or stream related.

[digifruitella]

NVIDIA Control Panel -> Video & Television -> Adjust video color settings -> Select "With the NVIDIA settings" -> Advanced tab -> Set Dynamic Range to "Full (0-255)".


Ok so ONE piece of good news is that this solution worked! I double checked. When I apply the full range, and open my exported video in KMplayer (the same one that showed washed out colors before this technique) - it would match the colors in Premiere. So I'm psyched that this has been fixed.

Next on the list is

a) properly exporting from Premiere to an uncompressed format (not sure the best way.. I tried Microsoft AVI > Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit

and

b) how to encode with x264.

I'll have to read this thread fully to see if this has been answered. But so far so good. You guys helped me fix ONE thing. Sooo happy about that! :thanks:

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Next on the list is

a) properly exporting from Premiere to an uncompressed format (not sure the best way.. I tried Microsoft AVI > Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit

If Premiere allows you to choose arbitrary VFW Codecs when exporting to AVI, you should use something like HuffYUV (http://neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley.edu/benrg/huffyuv.html) (lossless compression) to save disk space.


b) how to encode with x264.

If you don't like to use x264 from the command-line, there are plenty of GUI's to choose from:
http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=78

:search:

[Blue_MiSfit]

Indeed. HuffYUV or Lagarith are all excellent choices.

I'd suggest outputting in YUY2 (4:2:2), then letting x264 handle the conversion to 4:2:2.

Derek

[digifruitella]

Ok guys, thanks - I will try this and then report back.

I have also resampled the music track from 44 to 48 (32bit FLOAT - good idea?)

and replaced the 44hz file to 48 file. What I've noticed upon replacement is that the music track when replaced to 48hz, moved leftward by at least a second. So I manually adjusted it back by eye.

[kypec]

I'd suggest outputting in YUY2 (4:2:2), then letting x264 handle the conversion to 4:2:2.
Derek
Didn't you mean to write 4:2:0 instead :confused: Otherwise I wouldn't call it a "conversion".

[digifruitella]

So a couple things. I installed the HuffYUV codec. Reloaded Premiere.

When I go to Uncompressed Microsoft AVI under Format.. I only get V210 and UYVY options.

When I go to Microsoft AVI under Format.. I get Uncompressed UYVY 422 8bit and V210 10-bit YUV options amongst others

I'm not seeing YUY2, or HuffYUV anywhere.

Just as a note, under Microsoft AVI format, I do have ffdshow Video Codec and when I select it and open ffdshow.. under Uncompressed, Encoder - I do see HuffYUV and it has the YUY2 option and YV12 under colorspace options. The problem though is that I've never encoded using ffdshow - so I don't know how to set everything. I mean, yeah I can try.. and I will, though just wanted to bring that out there, maybe someone quickly can teach me how.

[audyovydeo]

As I said before, Premiere (at least upto version Pro 2) uses RGB as internal format. Try do as few color changes as possible. I usually save to Lagarith RGB then encode with x264.

give it a try. You dont have to export your entire timeline to test, you already know that !

cheers
audyovydeo

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Just as a note, under Microsoft AVI format, I do have ffdshow Video Codec and when I select it and open ffdshow.. under Uncompressed, Encoder - I do see HuffYUV and it has the YUY2 option and YV12 under colorspace options. The problem though is that I've never encoded using ffdshow - so I don't know how to set everything. I mean, yeah I can try.. and I will, though just wanted to bring that out there, maybe someone quickly can teach me how.

So wait, you have "ffdshow Video Codec" available from the list in Premiere, but not HuffYUV ???

That would mean Premier does allow you to choose an arbitrary VFW Codec when saving to AVI, but apparently HuffYUV wasn't installed on your system properly.

Anyway, encoding to HuffYUV with ffdshow should be fine! And with HuffYUV you cannot configure anything "wrong", as it always will be 100% lossless.

The different "Predictor" modes available for HuffYUV only effect the file size (compression efficiency), but not the quality.

Moreover I would pick the YV12 format, because x264 will have to convert your data to YV12 anyway. So exporting the video at higher chroma resolution is kind of pointless.

Last but not last, if you use the ffdshow VFW Codec anyway, another lossless format you could try is FFV1. Better compression compared to HuffYUV (but slower).

[Blue_MiSfit]

I've had issues using various encoders inside ffdshow VFW - at least when using apps that don't expose all VFW codecs - like Vegas. In fact, I couldn't get ANYTHING in ffdshow to output properly with Vegas.

I have had good luck with x264vfw and ffdshow in Premiere CS5 though, so hopefully you'll get a good output.

One alternative if ffdshow gives you issues - use x264 targeting qp 0 (lossless)

[digifruitella]

So wait, you have "ffdshow Video Codec" available from the list in Premiere, but not HuffYUV ???

That would mean Premier does allow you to choose an arbitrary VFW Codec when saving to AVI, but apparently HuffYUV wasn't installed on your system properly.

Anyway, encoding to HuffYUV with ffdshow should be fine! And with HuffYUV you cannot configure anything "wrong", as it always will be 100% lossless.

The different "Predictor" modes available for HuffYUV only effect the file size (compression efficiency), but not the quality.

Moreover I would pick the YV12 format, because x264 will have to convert your data to YV12 anyway. So exporting the video at higher chroma resolution is kind of pointless.

Last but not last, if you use the ffdshow VFW Codec anyway, another lossless format you could try is FFV1. Better compression compared to HuffYUV (but slower).

Ok, I'm probably doing something wrong, but the two times I encoded at ffdshow with YV12 format - i get horrific quality, pixelate - aspect ratio all squeezed.

Not only that, but the bitrate is like 2 mbps - I thought this was supposed to be uncompressed.. what is going on

MediaInfo of a 2 second test sample

General
Complete name : C:\Users\iggy\Desktop\VIDEO\uncomp.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 1.43 MiB
Duration : 2s 711ms
Overall bit rate : 4 416 Kbps
Recorded date : 2010-10-03T04:31:26.00008-04:00
Writing application : Adobe Premiere Pro 5.0

Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Simple@L1
Format settings, BVOP : No
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD
Duration : 2s 711ms
Bit rate : 2 412 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.049
Stream size : 798 KiB (55%)
Writing library : Lavc52.79.1

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 2s 711ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 508 KiB (35%)
Interleave, duration : 678 ms (16.25 video frames)

I seem to have fixed the aspect ratio problem - I set the Square Pixel to 1.0 and that fixed it. My bad... however encoding with HuffYUV/YV12 - still results in horrible pixelation. And when I open MediaInfo - why does it say the codec is XVID? and the bitrate again is so small.. Here's an example of the pixelation.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3458/pixel1.png

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9425/77448859.png

Seems like another headache.

[J_Darnley]

Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
...
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD

Doesn't look like uncompressed to me. You should check the settings and try again.

configuration window -> encoder tab -> encoder box

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Ok, I'm probably doing something wrong, but the two times I encoded at ffdshow with YV12 format - i get horrific quality, pixelate - aspect ratio all squeezed.

How did you select "YV12" in ffdshow's VFW encoder configuration window ???

There is an "Encoder" combobox in the upper left corner, but it doesn't offer "YV12". It only offers "Uncompressed". Is that what you did select ???

I would suggest to select either "HuffYUV", "FFV1" or "H.264 lossless" there. "HuffYUV" should be reasonable (speed and compression wise).

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7931/ffdshowvfwenchuffyuv.th.png (http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7931/ffdshowvfwenchuffyuv.png)

[digifruitella]

Don't get me wrong, I checked and double checked the settings on ffdshow - and that screengrab you posted, that is exactly how my settings are left. I make sure I'm on the Encoder option with HuffYUV selected. And the colorspace YUV12 and still nothing. I'll give it a few more tries and report back.

Maybe I need to move the bitrate slider all the way to the right?

[AlekseiV]

Fun facts: The default encoder in FFDShow is XviD. Premiere CS5 is 64-bit only.

My guess: You are selecting HuffYUV in the 32-bit VFW configuration, but as the settings are not mirrored to the 64-bit ffdshow, you are still outputting as XviD.

edit: oh, and to open both configs, put either of these commands into cmd.exe (or run, or the vista/7 start menu...)

32-bit (syswow64):
C:\Windows\SysWOW64\rundll32.exe "C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ff_vfw.dll",configureVFW

64-bit (system32, these aren't typos):
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe "C:\Windows\system32\ff_vfw.dll",configureVFW

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If Premiere is 64-Bit, then it is obvious why it will show only 64-Bit VFW Codecs in the list. And thus it won't show the 32-Bit HuffYUV Codec.

However if you access the "ffdshow video encoder configuration" dialog from within Premiere, then you will get to see the 64-Bit configuration dialog.

But if you access the configuration dialog from the Startmenu, then must take care, of course!

[digifruitella]

Ok, I have a nice full day of free time today.. I'll spend a few hours trying to Encode with ffdshow.

[AlekseiV]

But if you access the configuration dialog from the Startmenu, then must take care, of course!I always use the start menu's dialog to change the settings, and this post made me realize that that is a weird and dumb way to do it.
Now I need to figure out when I became dumb :o