Chroma Jaggies in Animated Clip (R1 DVD Source)

[Shinji-kun]

I used this script Dgdecode_mpeg2source("C:\Users\user\dvd rip\Ed, Edd n Eddy\Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1.d2v", info=3)
tfm(order=-1, mode=5, pp=7, field=-1, slow=1, mchroma=false, d2v="C:\Users\user\dvd rip\Ed, Edd n Eddy\Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1.d2v")
tdecimate(mode=1)

to IVTC the attached Ed Edd n Eddy clip. The IVTC seems fine but there is major grain and noise in the VOB. I tried using MVDegrain and it gave an error. I tried using TemporalDegrain and it gave an error. Can anyone help with how to use these filters and fix the problem in general?

Sample 1 (Opening) (http://www.mediafire.com/?beucu3q6x321a2n)
Sample 2 (Episode Footage) (http://www.mediafire.com/?nw4ljrn5nj592n3)

EDIT:
The other major problem is apparently chroma subsampling, which causes the edges of bright objects to appear jagged like this:

Original VOB
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/EVA-Unit01/popgoestheed.png

With TemporalDegrain()
http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/EVA-Unit01/popgoestheedtempdegrain.png

Zoom to 550% to see jagged edges.

[Didée]

Name the error messages. Post the script that caused the error/s.

[Shinji-kun]

I used: Dgdecode_mpeg2source("C:\Users\user\dvd rip\Ed, Edd n Eddy\Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1.d2v", info=3)
tfm(order=-1, mode=5, pp=7, field=-1, slow=1, mchroma=false, d2v="C:\Users\user\dvd rip\Ed, Edd n Eddy\Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1.d2v")
tdecimate(mode=1)
MVdergain()


Error: "There is no function called MVAnalyze". Maybe there is a problem with the version of mvtools; I have both the dll's for 1 and 2.

When I used TemporalDegrain() instead of MVDegrain, the error said that fftw3.dll could not be loaded, even though it was in the plugins folder.

[Didée]

"MVdergain()" impossibly can be right. Looks pretty much like a typo. :p

Probably you have a imported a script written for MVTools v1.x, but use MVTools2.dll. Syntax of MVTools v1.x was "MVAnalyse", "MVDegrain", etc. Syntax of MVTools v2.x is "MAnalyse", "MDegrain", etc.

For getting FFT3DFilter to function, you need "fftw3.dll" in your /system32 folder (WinXP, Vista/7 32bit), or in the /SYSWOW64 folder (Vista/7 64bit).

[Shinji-kun]

"MVdergain()" impossibly can be right. Looks pretty much like a typo. :p

Probably you have a imported a script written for MVTools v1.x, but use MVTools2.dll. Syntax of MVTools v1.x was "MVAnalyse", "MVDegrain", etc. Syntax of MVTools v2.x is "MAnalyse", "MDegrain", etc.

I used LoadPlugin for the MVTools v 1.x and the script still didn't work.

I tried using MDegrain2 and am stuck. Can someone explain the parameters and if an avsi is needed? The MVTools guide was to complicated to understand.

[Didée]

Documentation of MVTools has a nice section with practical examples. I quote an excerpt for you:

To denoise by MDegrain2 with overlapped blocks (blksize=8) and subpixel precision:

AVISource("c:\test.avi") # or MPEG2Source, DirectShowSource, some previous filter, etc
super = MSuper(pel=2, sharp=1)
backward_vec2 = MAnalyse(super, isb = true, delta = 2, overlap=4)
backward_vec1 = MAnalyse(super, isb = true, delta = 1, overlap=4)
forward_vec1 = MAnalyse(super, isb = false, delta = 1, overlap=4)
forward_vec2 = MAnalyse(super, isb = false, delta = 2, overlap=4)
MDegrain2(super, backward_vec1,forward_vec1,backward_vec2,forward_vec2,thSAD=400)

C'mon! It's really not THAT hard to integrate this accordingly into your script!

[Didée]

By the way ... the sample you posted is progressive. You should not IVTC that. There is no telecine that would need to be undone.

[Shinji-kun]

By the way ... the sample you posted is progressive. You should not IVTC that. There is no telecine that would need to be undone.

What would I do then, deinterlace? I can see that every ~1 of 5 frames is interlaced. Wouldn't that suggest it is Telecine?

Like here:

[Didée]

That's because you have "Honor pulldown flags" enabled in DGIndex. This source uses soft pulldown: it is encoded progressive, but contains pulldown flags for interlaced NTSC display devices.

For this source, set DGIndex to "forced film", then re-create the *.d2v index file.

[Shinji-kun]

That's because you have "Honor pulldown flags" enabled in DGIndex. This source uses soft pulldown: it is encoded progressive, but contains pulldown flags for interlaced NTSC display devices.

For this source, set DGIndex to "forced film", then re-create the *.d2v index file.

How were you able to determine this? If the sample I gave (episode 1 of disc 1) is progressive, should I assume that all the episode VOB files are progressive and chose forced film for all of them? How can I determine in the future if the source is Interlaced or Progressive in DGindex?

MDegrain2() causes blocking on edges. Would Deblock_QED remove this?

[Didée]

When you let DGIndex "preview" this source, the Information window states "Video Type: Film" and the "Frame Type:" is constantly at "progressive".

On a clip with standard hard pulldown, the "Video Type" will typically show "Film xx%" (with xx usually a high 90-ish number), and "Frame Type" will very rapidly switch between "interlaced" and "progressive".

[Shinji-kun]

OK. What about the blurring of edges? Would a deblocker help?

[Usedocne]

OK. What about the blurring of edges? Would a deblocker help?

Nope. You'll probably need a line darkener and maybe a sharpener. Here's what I use for anime/toons:
LSFmod(Strength=50)
vmToon(sharpen=false,thinning=0,strength=35,luma_cap=203,threshold=8)

[Shinji-kun]

LSFmod(Strength=50)


Got an error: "Removegrain invalid mode (19)".

[Usedocne]

Got an error: "Removegrain invalid mode (19)".

Wrong removegrain version. Here's (http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar) the one I'm using.

[Shinji-kun]

Wrong removegrain version. Here's (http://home.arcor.de/kassandro/RemoveGrain/RemoveGrain.rar) the one I'm using.

I got the script you suggested to work finally. The blurring on edges are still there.


Dgdecode_mpeg2source("C:\Users\user\dvd rip\Ed, Edd n Eddy\Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1.d2v", info=3)
super = MSuper(pel=2, sharp=1)
backward_vec2 = MAnalyse(super, isb = true, delta = 2, overlap=4)
backward_vec1 = MAnalyse(super, isb = true, delta = 1, overlap=4)
forward_vec1 = MAnalyse(super, isb = false, delta = 1, overlap=4)
forward_vec2 = MAnalyse(super, isb = false, delta = 2, overlap=4)
MDegrain2(super, backward_vec1,forward_vec1,backward_vec2,forward_vec2,thSAD=400)
LoadPlugin("C:\program files (x86)\avisynth 2.5\plugins\removegrain.dll")
LSFmod(strength=50)
Loadplugin("C:\users\user\downloads\warpsharp.dll")
vmtoon(sharpen=false,thinning=0,strength=35,luma_cap=203,threshold=8)

and here's an image from the resulting video:

[Shinji-kun]

I have not been able to get a clear or helpful answer for my question, which is: what are the artifacts on the edges of figures in animated footage called, how can they be removed and with which avisynth filters?

Eventually I just researched the question and found some indirect advice.

1. The artifacts are blocking artifacts and can be removed with deblockers like Deblock, Deblock_QED or Sharpeners like LSFmod, edgecleaner etc.

2. The artifacts are caused by haloing and can be removed with dehalo_alpha.

I get errors when trying to run Dehalo_alpha and edgecleaner and awarpsharp.

Dehalo_alpha: There is no function called expand. (I don't even know which plugin has the parameter "expand")

Edgecleaner: There is no function called awarpsharp. (even though awarpsharp.dll IS in the plugins folder)


Lastly, it is apparent that no one who replied in this thread is giving or plans to give any helpful and truthful advice. The fact is the identity obvious of these artifacts can be easily found on this very forum, yet no one could just say so in this thread. Didee even replied at the begining of this thread and then suddenly dropped out. This is odd, seeing as how he's the CREATOR of many if not all of the filters that are recommended for deblocking, dehaloing and sharpening animated footage on this site (which are the very operations I am trying to perform from knowledge obtained in this thread).

:fed up:

[stpdrgstr]

Lastly, it is apparent that no one who replied in this thread is giving or plans to give any helpful and truthful advice

So, in short, you want people to spoon feed you? What about doing some research and see what works best for you? You're not even trying.

[Shinji-kun]

So, in short, you want people to spoon feed you?

Recurring saying, same lame, cowardly behavior. I could say to you: so you want to waste my time posting your pretentious, asinine and especially UNHELPFUL drivel?

I've said this before and I'll say it again: EITHER POST POSITIVE HELPFUL ADVICE OR DON'T POST ANYTHING. SO KINDLY DO SO OR F' OFF.

You're not even trying.

You have no reason to post in this thread, so look at my response to your first statement and GTFO.

[Didée]

Seriously, you sound a little demanding. I understand you have a problem, I understand you want to get it solved, and I understand one can get alittle impatient on the way. Now, would you please understand that you're not the only one having problems, it's not all about you.

See, my learning curve started a long time ago ... I started pixel juggling about 25 years ago, and it's more than 20 years since I implemented my first own anti-aliasing algorithm. Era of CBM-64 ... chances are you weren't even born back then. Now it's been 10 years that I'm using avisynth. Experience comes with time.
Now there are you, having registered one month ago, and want to know everything immediately? Sorry to tell, but I fear you must invest a little more time. :)

Also, in the other thread you told that you swapped TGMC for tdeint+TemporalDenoise. What do you expect, now I'm in a snit and act like a prima donna. :p :D


Further, and more technical ...
you complain about "blocking" and show screenshots. But in those shots I can't see any blocking that would be caused by any of the named filters. What I see is lots of Gibbs noise and DCT artifacts ... but since you used JPEG for the screenies, which in turn are of rather small filesize, it's not even possible to tell what noise already was there, and what has been caused by the JPEG compression. (Hint: when it's about image quality and artifacts, using lossless compression formats like PNG is recommended.)

For low-complexity animation like that what you're showing here, I could imagine good old Deen filter can do a respectable job. Also HQDering (or any of its faster spin-offs) for the mosquito noise around edges.

[Guest]

Knock it off, Shinji-kun, or you'll get a rule 4 strike.

[Shinji-kun]

...you're not the only one having problems, it's not all about you. etc.

I never said it was 'all about me' so don't put words in my mouth.

I post a few threads asking for advice on fixing X artifact. I wait a while. Days and days later there I check the threads to find no replies whatsoever in any of them. Hmmmmm. That doesn't seem suspicious to me at all. I don't expect an instant reply, I expect A reply. Ever. It seems a bit hypocritical of you (and others who have done so) to judge my character when you, often times, act hostile and without the slightest shred of common decency.

Maybe it's just me but I was under the impression that the primary purpose of this forum's very creation was to spread knowledge and information of DVD conversion and digital video manipulation ,to the whoever so sought it, by means of public discussion.

Logically speaking, one of the main ways in which individuals learn is by communicating with others who posses the knowledge they wish to attain. Seeing how this website is a FORUM, I took it upon myself to assume that collective sharing of the skills that this site is based upon through written discussion is how the users here learn said skills. Assuming this, I had questions about some of these video editing skills and so I asked them. You say that, in asking such questions and expecting to discuss them, I am exhibiting some sort of audacity or selfishness? Well I suggest you take a better look at YOUR behavior and keep your negative statements to yourself. This does not however, mean that I am not thankful for the helpful information you did give. It means exactly what it says.

Knock it off, Shinji-kun, or you'll get a rule 4 strike.

4) Be nice to each other and respect the moderator. Profanity and insults will not be tolerated. If you have a problem with another member turn to the respective moderator and if the moderator can't help you send a private message to Doom9.

I do not intend any profanity or insults. In this post I only intend to request that all those who have made statements about me look at rule#4 themselves and act accordingly.

[Didée]

Well okay ... if that's how you see my style, then so be it.

In that case, I don't need to speak anymore to you. Because I can give you a simple direction:

Search the few thousands posts I have made. I'm confident that by doing so, you'll find answers to all of your questions posed here.


when you, often times, act hostile and without the slightest shred of common decency
Well ... to me, *you* are behaving in exactly that way which you accuse me of.

Seriously - I was only trying to say "hey, calm down a little." But now it's you who is jumping up and scold me being an inpolite man.

What a pity ... the time used for this useless debating could've been used to try out and advise some filtering. But alas, available time is exhausted now. As is interest.

[tengo6dedos]

@Shinji-kun

You are over complicating this too much, this is not a complex source at all, is not even interlaced. You are just throwing "fancy" lines for the hope it does the job but you dont seem to understand what they do. Start with simple filters and then move forward, you dont really need more for this source, do antialiasing and pull a good old fft3d or even Deen and a cpu=4 in dgdecode line, should be more than fine.

Something for you to start:

DGDecode_Mpeg2Source("D:\Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1.d2v",cpu=4,idct=7)

ediaa()
Deen("a2d",4,7,9,min=0.5)


function ediaa(clip a) {return a.EEDI2(field=1).TurnRight().EEDI2(field=1).TurnLeft().spline36resize(a.width,a.height,-0.5,-0.5)}


ediaa() is function from animeivtc script need EEDI2 plugin and this is an old version of Deen that you can get here (http://www.aquilinestudios.org/scripts/) (is the last)



Good Luck!

[Shinji-kun]

Dgdecode_mpeg2source("C:\Users\?\dvd rip\Ed, Edd n Eddy\Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1.d2v", cpu=4, idct=7, info=3)
TemporalDegrain()
ediaa()
LoadPlugin("C:\Users\?\Downloads\deen.dll")
Deen("a2d",4,7,9,min=0.5)
function ediaa(clip a) {return a.EEDI2(field=1).TurnRight().EEDI2(field=1).TurnLeft().spline36resize(a.width,a.height,-0.5,-0.5)}


After running this script I still see the same blurring.

[Ghitulescu]

I post a few threads asking for advice on fixing X artifact. I wait a while. Days and days later there I check the threads to find no replies whatsoever in any of them. Hmmmmm. That doesn't seem suspicious to me at all. I don't expect an instant reply, I expect A reply. Ever. It seems a bit hypocritical of you (and others who have done so) to judge my character when you, often times, act hostile and without the slightest shred of common decency.

Maybe it's just me but I was under the impression that the primary purpose of this forum's very creation was to spread knowledge and information of DVD conversion and digital video manipulation ,to the whoever so sought it, by means of public discussion.

Logically speaking, one of the main ways in which individuals learn is by communicating with others who posses the knowledge they wish to attain. Seeing how this website is a FORUM, I took it upon myself to assume that collective sharing of the skills that this site is based upon through written discussion is how the users here learn said skills. Assuming this, I had questions about some of these video editing skills and so I asked them. You say that, in asking such questions and expecting to discuss them, I am exhibiting some sort of audacity or selfishness? Well I suggest you take a better look at YOUR behavior and keep your negative statements to yourself. This does not however, mean that I am not thankful for the helpful information you did give. It means exactly what it says.

I do not intend any profanity or insults. In this post I only intend to request that all those who have made statements about me look at rule#4 themselves and act accordingly.

I'm afraid you didn't fully understood the meaning of this forum or any other one.
It's not a forum where one can asks and receives an answer because he asks. He may receive an answer. Nobody is obliged to use his time and expertise to help rude people. It's a free consulting. If you're unhappy with the answers, why don't you go and search for a specialist in video to solve your problem. But you have to pay for this, and not peanuts, and even then you cannot be rude.

Spreading info is one, spoon feeding is another (God gives you, but not fills your pockets ;)). BTW, what knowledge had you shared with us so far?

[tengo6dedos]

What are you using to preview the script?, what you are doing to show the problem is wrong, you put a compressed image to show the problem but this compression create even more problems. Use something like AvsPmod to preview the script and to get a .PNG lossless cap of the video. When script previewed go to video->save image as..->cap.png, and there you go. Then upload it to a web like imageshack or whatever.

[Shinji-kun]

@Ghitulescu

Lowbrow statement is lowbrow. No one asked YOU anything. If you don't have anything positive to say and can't even use correct grammar while typing, then don't bother posting in any of my threads (and that goes for anyone else attempting to do so). It's insecure lame-o's like you that waste everyones' time with negative statements. Frankly get out and stay out.



Now for everyone who is willing to give any positive advice, I added in the OP post that the problem with the chroma "jaggies" on edges of bright objects might be from "terrible chroma SUBsampling" not upsampling. It was suggested that

The chroma issue can be fixed with EdgeCleaner I guess, although contrasharpening might be a better option.

And

The blocking you need to find the golden settings of whatever your favourite deblocker is but I would consider dfttest masking or highly tweaked FFT3D as another option; I ended up using a dfttest mask on Cobra which had similar issues and it turned out pretty sugoi.


Does anyone know what settings might work to eliminate the chroma jaggies in Edgecleaner? When I add ConvertToRGB32() at the end of the script for the Ed, Edd n Eddy video and view it, the jagged edges are gone. So I assume the problem is with the way the colorspace is being converted to RGB.

Basically, of the above quoted suggestions, which one would be best at eliminating the jaggies?

[Didée]

@If you don't have anything positive to say and can't even use correct grammar while typing, then don't bother posting in any of my threads (and that goes for anyone else attempting to do so).
Well, there are very much talented Avisynth script writers having a mother tongue that is not English. If you insist so absolutely on correct grammar, then the next complaint "why nobody is answering?!?" is not far away.

Fact is - your tone IS quite a bit aggressive, and that very well might reduce people's motivation to provide help.
(Those who want to get help, usually don't shout §**$ and b*** m**f** and %*&§$* to the audience.)

* * *

Clicking-together some basic filters:

mpeg2source("Ed Edd n Eddy Episode 1__ForcedFilm.d2v")

frfun7(1.6,12,4)
fluxsmootht(7)
limitedsharpenfaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,soft=24)

Script result: http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7669/ededdeddy.th.png (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/ededdeddy.png/)

If that's too much of aliasing, throw in some NNEDI or aWarpSharp.

In case there are any grammatical errors in this post- sorry, it's the best that I can. :p

[mastrboy]

You could also try LSharpAAF for AA/Sharpening:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=153835

[Shinji-kun]

I posted a better sample that includes the parts I took images from. Check the OP post.

[R3Z]

Its times like these you need minties :)

Seriously though you are on the mark when you state they are probably compression artifacts or ringing from the "gibbs" effect. The bad news is that you wont be able to remove all of them without causing other problems (such as thinning or blotching of lines). Thats just how the filters work, they arent magic.

Short of manually altering each frame with something like Mokey, you wont be able to get rid of all the issues. Thats life.

For what its worth Didée's script;


frfun7(1.6,12,4)
fluxsmootht(7)
limitedsharpenfaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,soft=24)


Works very well. I prefer a bit of supersampling ie ss_x=1.5, ss_y=1.5 but thats me.

People are only trying to help, just remember where you are. Being nice gets better results, trust me.