DGAVCDecDI build 2001

[Guest]

Here's the one you've all been waiting for...a DGDecNV work-alike that uses DiAVC instead of the Nvidia GPU. DiAVC is a very fast multi-threaded AVC decoder.

This is a limited early release for Doom9 people so it is not exposed at my website yet. Your feedback will be appreciated.

http://neuron2.net/dgavcdecdi/dgavcdecdi2001.zip

Please read the Readme.txt carefully to get going. Be aware that this is the first release so don't expect perfection, although it works pretty solidly for me so far.

Thanks to schweinsz for his support and willingness to allow the adaptation of DiAVC for this purpose. (IMHO, that stands in pleasant contrast to another well-known AVC decoder supplier, who is apparently still thinking after more than a year about whether to expose their API for third-party applications.) DiAVC is very reasonably priced at $9.99. Let's support DiAVC so schweinsz can continue to improve it. Maybe we can convince him to make a VC1 decoder too. :)

[Underground78]

Hello,

Thank you for your work ! :)

Just to clarify something, have you change your mind about this : "I am working on a freeware solution that uses DiAVC." ? I am not totaly sure to correctly understand the Readme file.

[audyovydeo]

Thank you for working on this.

As a long-time user of your tools, I've been on the lookout for this.
I have not purchased NVtools only because I'm stuck with a non-CUDA Nvidia card, so I still run DGAVCindex 1.0.9, which performs flawlessly as far as I'm concerned.

Before I click "Buy" on this tool and DiAVC, can you tell me if there is a qualitative (ie : not speed) difference between DGAVCindex and this new tool ?

My unique usage is demuxing AVCHD files from my camera.


thanks
audyovydeo

[Guest]

Just to clarify something, have you change your mind about this : "I am working on a freeware solution that uses DiAVC." ? Yes, I have decided to license it because making it unlicensed would undermine other arrangements that have developed since that was originally written. In any case, it can't be completely free because DiAVC is licensed.

[Guest]

Before I click "Buy" on this tool and DiAVC, can you tell me if there is a qualitative (ie : not speed) difference between DGAVCindex and this new tool ? It has the feature set of DGDecNV 2004. Just a few things that adds is the ability to load multiple files and the ability to do trims at the TS level.

[Underground78]

Yes, I have decided to license it because making it free would undermine other arrangements that have developed since that was originally written. In any case, it can't be completely free because DiAVC is licensed.

Ok, in this case, do you and schweinsz plan to sell a pack "DGAVCDecDI + DiAVC" with a little discount (it would cost a total of $24.9) ? :o

[Guest]

No, there are no such plans. I believe $15.00 for all my licensed tools is reasonable. I believe $9.99 for a fast full-featured AVC DirectShow decoder that also exposes an API for third-party invocation is reasonable.

[Underground78]

No, there are no such plans. I believe $15.00 for all my licensed tools is reasonable. I believe $9.99 for a fast full-featured AVC DirectShow decoder that also exposes an API for third-party invocation is reasonable.

Well, you are probably right. I have just register a DiAVC licence and DG NV Tools licence. ;)

[Gser]

Perhaps I'll wait until it is more mature. But alas this is a welcome addition as I have no plans what-so-ever to buy a Nvidia gpu.

[BetaBoy]

(IMHO, that stands in pleasant contrast to another well-known AVC decoder supplier, who is apparently still thinking after more than a year about whether to expose their API for third-party applications.)

Donald... Nice dig... I'll bite.

The CoreAVC SDK has a full featured API within it and has had for well over 3 years now. What is not allowed (and what has been stated here several times on D9) is the licensing restrictions of use from MPEGLA... If the DiAVC developer wants to legally expose himself and his product to any potential lawsuits that's his prerogative and surely something we will not do with our consumer CoreAVC directshow filter.

Otherwise we openly license our technology, including CoreAVC with regard to the license and restrictions (good or bad) of which we have agreed too and have been very successful at doing.

If your product were 100% closed source and you needed a license for CoreAVC to embed within it, we would not even be having this discussion.

[Disabled]

I wonder what the legal difference is between the Directshow API and a custom API. Why should you be allowed to support the dshow API for other programs, but not be allowed to provide a custom API to be used by other programs?
I never read the terms, so I really don't know, just wondering...

[Guest]

Exactly. If it is legal to invoke the decoder via DirectShow, it is legal to invoke it via a low-level API. I believe that CoreAVC doesn't want to jeopardise their other business licensing a decoder SDK, etc. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is blowing smoke to pretend things are otherwise, or to string people along hoping that one day there will be a usable low-level API, to delay their investigation of alternatives.

...licensing restrictions of use from MPEGLA...

Regarding this MPEGLA FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt), here is the relevant clause:

"For (a) (1) branded encoder and decoder products sold both to end users and on an OEM
basis for incorporation into personal computers but not part of an operating system (a
decoder, encoder, or product consisting of one decoder and one encoder = “unit”),
royalties (beginning January 1, 2005) per legal entity are 0 - 100,000 units per year = no
royalty"

Neither DiAVC nor DGAVCDecDI ship anywhere near 100,000 units per year. I'd love to have to pay the $0.20 royalty, but alas, an Avisynth frame server is a niche market.

If your product were 100% closed source and you needed a license for CoreAVC to embed within it, we would not even be having this discussion. What does this mean? My product is 100% closed source. What kind of license are you offering me to be able to invoke your decoder via a low-level API (there is no need to "embed" it)? I've asked for this several times but always get an answer of "we're still thinking about it", or "we haven't assessed the legal implications". As I pointed out when I first asked you, I planned to invoke your decoder that is independently purchased by end users from you. How could that do anything but increase your sales? Again, if I published the API or my source code it could impact your SDK sales. But we could have signed an NDA regarding that.

Today, DiAVC has an open low-level API. CoreAVC does not.

Nice dig... I'll bite. If the shoe fits, wear it.

[Guest]

Perhaps I'll wait until it is more mature. You'll find that it is already quite mature.

[JoeH]

Nueron2, you said on the Benchmark thread: "FYI, if you change two letters in the first line of the DGI file, you can make an NV index work with DI source filter, and vice versa."

Could you explain this in more detail?

Here's a suggestion. If the files are that similar, it would be great to simply add an option to the AVI script options which determines whether DG decodes it with NV or with DiAVC. That way, for example, I could make one index file, and then just switch freely between NV and DiAVC depending on which works faster for what I'm trying to do. For example, first encode a DVD with DG-DiAVC and then switch to DG-NV to encode 1080p, just switching an option in the AVS script.

[audyovydeo]

It has the feature set of DGDecNV 2004. Just a few things that adds is the ability to load multiple files and the ability to do trims at the TS level.

I don't know DGDecNV, I can't use it.
I was actually thinking in terms of :

- image quality : will DGAVCDecDI + DiAVC yield higher quality than DGAVCDec + libavcodec.dll ?

(ok, I realise this question is really : "is DiAVC better than libavcodec ?", but it's in this thread, inevitably ...)


- scripting : I currently use DGAVCDec in a windows batch file, and it's perfect. Do this new tool have a cmdline interface ? I assume so, but just want to make sure before I click "Buy"

thanks
audyovydeo

[Underground78]

- image quality : will DGAVCDecDI + DiAVC yield higher quality than DGAVCDec + libavcodec.dll ?

(ok, I realise this question is really : "is DiAVC better than libavcodec ?", but it's in this thread, inevitably ...)

I may be wrong but I think all H264 decoders should have the same output. The only thing that can differ is the support of some streams that libavcodec does not support correctly.

[schweinsz]

I may be wrong but I think all H264 decoders should have the same output. The only thing that can differ is the support of some streams that libavcodec does not support correctly.
The DiAVC is remarkablely faster than the libavcodec. And it is faster than the CoreAVC and Divx H.264 decoder.
All H.264 decoders gives same output.

[Guest]

All H.264 decoders gives same output. Yes, except as noted by Underground78: earlier versions of libavcodec do not decode PAFF properly.

[Underground78]

Hi neuron2,

You may be interested by this sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?g2xjd4rwa2n) which produces corrupted (first) frames when decoded by DGAVCDecDi and not when using DGDecNV : screenshot (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0041/test).

[Guest]

Here's a suggestion. If the files are that similar, it would be great to simply add an option to the AVI script options which determines whether DG decodes it with NV or with DiAVC. That way, for example, I could make one index file, and then just switch freely between NV and DiAVC depending on which works faster for what I'm trying to do. For example, first encode a DVD with DG-DiAVC and then switch to DG-NV to encode 1080p, just switching an option in the AVS script. Instead I will probably just make the index files identical in build 2025 and later, and have different names for the source filter.

[audyovydeo]

OK, I'll put my money where my mouth is.

Neuron2, I've just purchased a license for your tools.
15$ (12€) is a more than fair price for tools I've been using for 3+ years.

Schweinsz : I'll purchase DiAVC this weekend from my home computer.


Thanks to you both for your commitment to quality software for We The People.

cheers
audyovydeo

[MythCreator]

Is DGAvcDecDi still need a Nvidia card? I can't use DGDecNV to create license.txt

[audyovydeo]

Is DGAvcDecDi still need a Nvidia card? I can't use DGDecNV to create license.txt

use DGAVCdecDI to get your MachineID

cheers
a/v

[MythCreator]

use DGAVCdecDI to get your MachineID

cheers
a/v

Thanks ~~~~

[Underground78]

OK，I get MachineID & I have already receive my User ID,and next?

DG Tools License Generator (http://neuron2.net/licensing.html)

[audyovydeo]

mmmmhh,


DGAVCdecDI :

"Could not create DiAVC Decoder !"


AppName: dgavcindexdi.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.2024 ModName: diavc.ax
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 0000673c


I installed DG in \bin\dg and DiAVC in \program files\DiAVC

both are registered thru their respective progs.

I copied DiAVC.ax to \bin\dg but same error.

MPC-HC does see DiAVC and plays back videos correctly.
Any suggestions ?

cheers
a/v

[schweinsz]

mmmmhh,


DGAVCdecDI :

"Could not create DiAVC Decoder !"


AppName: dgavcindexdi.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.2024 ModName: diavc.ax
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 0000673c


I installed DG in \bin\dg and DiAVC in \program files\DiAVC

both are registered thru their respective progs.

I copied DiAVC.ax to \bin\dg but same error.

MPC-HC does see DiAVC and plays back videos correctly.
Any suggestions ?

cheers
a/v
You should use the new version of the DiAVC in the package named dgavcdecdi2001.zip. The downloadable version of DiAVC in di-avc.com is an old version. Replace the diavc.ax using the version in dgavcdecdi2001.zip and re-try it.

[olex99]

How does the licence for DiAVC work? Do you have to pay for 1 licence per computer or is it similar to the DG Tools licence where paying once gives you a licence for a few computers? I have a few computers id like to try this on but wanted to know if id have to purchase 1 licence or multiple.

[schweinsz]

How does the licence for DiAVC work? Do you have to pay for 1 licence per computer or is it similar to the DG Tools licence where paying once gives you a licence for a few computers? I have a few computers id like to try this on but wanted to know if id have to purchase 1 licence or multiple.
After you buy one licence for one computer, you can send me all the machine code of your computers at sales@di-avc.com using the e-mail you pay. I will reply you once I get the e-mail.

[audyovydeo]

You should use the new version of the DiAVC in the package named dgavcdecdi2001.zip. The downloadable version of DiAVC in di-avc.com is an old version. Replace the diavc.ax using the version in dgavcdecdi2001.zip and re-try it.

Indeed it works. Thanks.

Neuron2 : I have trouble running DGAVCindexDI from the cmdline. When invoked, it starts the GUI & does nothing.

I simply recycled my script for DGAVCdec with the options I found in the DGtoolsNV documentation :

\bin\DG\DGAVCIndexDI -i !nome! -od !cane!.dgi -a -h

(variable names are my own)
could you possibly check at your end ?

I'm in XP/SP3 for info


thanks
a/v

[paulvdb]

When I try to open a file in DGAVCIndexDI I get the following: DGAVCIndexDI.exe has stopped working. When I click on problem details I get:
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: DGAVCIndexDI.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.2024
Application Timestamp: 4c6a7d3d
Fault Module Name: diavc.ax
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 4c66d860
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000957ef
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.4
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789

This is in Windows 7 x64. I also tried it in Windows XP x64 on the same computer and on my other computer. It also crashed. Any ideas on what caused it and how to fix it? It also crashed when trying to play h264 ts in MPC with DiAVC as directshow decoder.

[Guest]

Neuron2 : I have trouble running DGAVCindexDI from the cmdline. When invoked, it starts the GUI & does nothing. Sorry, haven't checked the CLI yet. Will fix it. Thanks for the report.

[Guest]

This is in Windows 7 x64. I also tried it in Windows XP x64 on the same computer and on my other computer. I suppose DiAVC does not run on x64 yet. schweinsz will have to confirm this. If so, I will add a warning in the distribution.

[audyovydeo]

No sweat, no hurry. I'm back to work, and my holiday .MTS'es will stay shut into my camera until ... the next holiday, as yet unplanned.

I did read the collateral clause yesterday anyhow :

This is a limited early release for Doom9 people so it is not exposed at my website yet. Your feedback will be appreciated.

;-)

ciao
audyovydeo

[Underground78]

I suppose DiAVC does not run on x64 yet. schweinsz will have to confirm this. If so, I will add a warning in the distribution.

DGAVCdecDI 64 bits does not exist for now if I am not mistaken so there is no reason to have a problem with DiAVC not supporting 64 bits right ? I have used DGAVCdecDI (32 bits) under Windows Seven 64 bits without any crash so far ...

PS : Have you seen this : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1427471#post1427471 ?

[Guest]

It also crashed when trying to play h264 ts in MPC with DiAVC as directshow decoder. Ah, missed that bit. So it is a DiAVC issue. Can you please post this problem in the DiAVC thread?

@Underground78

Yes, I saw it. Please be patient for fixes/analyses.

[schweinsz]

Ah, missed that bit. So it is a DiAVC issue. Can you please post this problem in the DiAVC thread?

@Underground78

Yes, I saw it. Please be patient for fixes/analyses.
I will finish the x64 version of the DiAVC. After I finish it, I will try to fix the compatibility problem on 64bit windows.

[Guest]

I have just got off the phone with MPEGLA and now can report:

1. The legal entity "neuron2", provider of DGAVCDecDI including a bundled AVC decoder binary, will shortly be MPEGLA licensed and will appear on the MPEGLA "good standing" list.

2. Due to low volumes, no royalties are payable and "neuron2" can report yearly to MPEGLA.

3. This "good standing" applies to the decoder sourced from neuron2. If you independently obtain a decoder from DiAVC, you and DiAVC need to address any possible licensing concerns. "neuron2" and DiAVC are not the same legal entity.

And now a few observations:

1. Due to low volume, DiAVC can obtain the same status as I am obtaining very easily and without cost. I would assume that schweinsz would do that and I will advise him about it.

2. Interestingly, FFMPEG and related projects stand in blatant violation of the MPEGLA licensing. There is no exception for free or open source products and they ship more than the threshold number of units to be liable for payment of royalties. FFMPEG does not appear on the MPEGLA "good standing" list.

I do not want to have a long discussion about this here, as this thread is for bug reporting, feature ideas, etc. If you want open a new thread dedicated to this discussion, feel free to do so. I include this here only to reassure potential end users of DGAVCDecDI that they are purchasing a fully legal and properly licensed product. Further posts about this here will be deleted.

EDIT: As seen in the new dedicated thread, the FFMPEG project is *not* in violation, to the extent that they do not supply binaries, because source code is not a "product". Please follow up in the new thread dedicated to this subject.

[JoeH]

Instead I will probably just make the index files identical in build 2025 and later, and have different names for the source filter.

Sound like an equally good solution. Thanks!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Congratulations on your success with MPEGLA the Neuron2 ;)

[Guest]

I simply recycled my script for DGAVCdec with the options I found in the DGtoolsNV documentation :

\bin\DG\DGAVCIndexDI -i !nome! -od !cane!.dgi -a -h

(variable names are my own)
could you possibly check at your end ?
Please give the full script because I cannot make any sense out of !nome! and !cane!.dgi

I did a few tests with basic command lines and it worked fine.

[audyovydeo]

Please give the full script because I cannot make any sense out of !nome! and !cane!.dgi

I did a few tests with basic command lines and it worked fine.


Neuron2,

I merely adapted my working script for DGAVCdec by changing the cmdline parameters.


@echo off

SETLOCAL enabledelayedexpansion

for %%z in (*.mts) do (
set nome=%%z
set name=!nome!
set cane=%%~nz
set dog=!cane!
:: c:\bin\avisynth\plugins\DGAVC\DGAVCIndex -i !nome! -f 0 -y 1 -od !cane!.dga -a -h
c:\bin\DG\DGAVCIndexDI -i !nome! -od !cane!.dgi -a -h
)
ENDLOCAL


Even without batch file, invoking DGAVDindexDI from the dos prompt with its options will merely lunch the gui & stop.

cheers
a/v

[Guest]

OK, looks like -od is the culprit (-o is OK). Investigating...

[Guest]

Please re-download and grab the updated DGAVCIndexDI. Let me know if that works OK.

[audyovydeo]

Please re-download and grab the updated DGAVCIndexDI. Let me know if that works OK.

works fine, thanks !

[audyovydeo]

Neuron,

another question : any plans to support mp4 files ?
I remember the debate was on last year for DGAVCdec to support mp4 and/or mkv.


cheers
a/v

[Guest]

another question : any plans to support mp4 files ? It's on my to-do list. Its priority depends on the outcome of some discussions I am involved in.

[Guest]

I've linked the tool at my web site now, as I've received only one small bug report, which has been fixed. Thank you for your test results.

http://neuron2.net/dgavcdecdi/dgavcdecdi.html

Long live DiAVC!

[Daemon404]

Hi neuron2,

You may be interested by this sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?g2xjd4rwa2n) which produces corrupted (first) frames when decoded by DGAVCDecDi and not when using DGDecNV : screenshot (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0041/test).

I'd just like to note that it still does not work with this stream.

[Guest]

I have added the documentation to the release package.