MeGUI Presets discussion

[Sharktooth]

Once we used to have multiple presets for multiple target. Today we have the "Quality/speed" slider that adjusts most of the x264 settings... but... I feel the new x264 presests for MeGUI are really... crap.
If you have any suggestions OR you find some errors in current presets, don't hesitate to write them down here.
Thanks

[Atak_Snajpera]

Who needs "100" presets? Look at ripbot. 4 profiles and everybody is happy.
[BASE 3.0] iPOD . iPhone . Zune
[BASE 3.1] AppleTV
[MAIN 3.0] SD . PSP . iPAD
[HIGH 4.0] HD . BluRay . Consoles

[Sharktooth]

i guess you're right but... look at megui and think again.
megui lets you tweak everything (or almost), why would you use simplified/stripped down presests that "works" but cant squeeze the juice out of your device?

[Audionut]

While you were away, the x264 devs changed the behavior of the cli. It now includes --profile --preset and --tune options.

The idea was to do away with gui's. Cause quite frankly, megui fell to shite again when you left for quite awhile and before Zathor took it over.

The slider you are talking about is simply a --preset (read: speed adjuster) of the cli.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7673/x264t.png

There are still hardware based presets available in megui.
BTW, the x264 devs will soon be adding a --device option to the cli.

[Atak_Snajpera]

but cant squeeze the juice out of your device?
examples?

[Sharktooth]

@audionut: i know about the --profile, --preset, --tune... and the addition of --device.
the idea is to move those options in the main configuration page of the encoder and have a checkbox to show the advanced settings to tune up manually.
the problem however is different... look at the xbox360 preset... now, tell me if in your opinion that will work without buffer restrictions... im not even sure xbox360 supports b-pyramid... go figure...

[Audionut]

The only thing that doesn't support b-pyramid from memory was the psp. So it was decided to add it as a default option due to it's benifits, much to the disgust of a few psp owners that complained about having to turn it off manually for that 1 device.

[Atak_Snajpera]

the problem however is different... look at the xbox360 preset... now, tell me if in your opinion that will work without buffer restrictions... im not even sure xbox360 supports b-pyramid... go figure...
HD profile works on every device. BLU-RAY/PS3/XBOX360/DXVA/WD/POPCORN/AND so on ...
BTW . I always disable b-pyramid because it may only cause decoding problems and quality does not suffer at all. (unless you are not human)

The only thing that doesn't support b-pyramid from memory was the psp.
Maybe i'm wrong but i think that b-pyramid belongs to HIGH profile. PSP supports only MAIN. So no wonder that it does not work.

[Audionut]

Oh and yes, I don't own an xbox360 but it's got something like a 10mbps limit right. Where are the buffer restrictions indeed.
Imo all this will be fixed with the --device option.

TBH, I think gui's will be a tool for people who can't enter a simple command line like

x264 --tune film --device xbox360 --crf 20 -o x:\output.mkv x:\input.whatever

BTW, x264 accepts nearly any input now, and will soon have inbuild resize and crop functions.

The devs are also planing to add audio encoding. Personally I think that's beyond the scope, but will make the cli and all in one encoding solution.

[Atak_Snajpera]

The devs are also planing to add audio encoding. Personally I think that's beyond the scope, but will make the cli and all in one encoding solution.
No need to invent a wheel again. FFMPEG does that already ;)

[Audionut]

BTW . I always disable b-pyramid because it may only cause decoding problems and quality does not suffer at all. (unless you are not human)

It was brought to forum consensus ages ago. Virtually every device known was tested and the only thing that failed was the psp.

Why disable something based on an assumption "because it may", particularly considering that it was tested well before being enabled by default.

HD profile works on every device. BLU-RAY/PS3/XBOX360/DXVA/WD/POPCORN/AND so on ...

Yes, but devices have bitrate limits. And if a preset, profile whatever isn't limiting the bitrate?

[Atak_Snajpera]

Virtually every device known was tested and the only thing that failed was the psp.
PSP does not support high profile! ONLY MAIN. I remeber that xbox 360 had some problems with b-pyramid.

Yes, but devices have bitrate limits. And if a preset, profile whatever isn't limiting the bitrate?
Most HD devices are at least 4.0 compatible. Besides who will encode at 25MBps (level 4.0 limit ;)

[Audionut]

PSP does not support high profile! ONLY MAIN.

b-pyramid is enabled in main profile.

Most HD devices
Besides who will encode at 25MBps (level 4.0 limit ;)

That's a large assumption based on the fact that a fair percentage of users using a gui do so cause they don't know or understand x264 options or the cli.

And the xbox360 has a limit of 10mbps right.

[nurbs]

PSP does not support high profile! ONLY MAIN.Which has nothing to do with b-pyramid. I remeber that xbox 360 had some problems with b-pyramid.You remember it wrong (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152761).

[Atak_Snajpera]

You remember it wrong.
So new firmware must fixed that or newer x264.

And the xbox360 has a limit of 10mbps right.
If I had x360 i would just check if 10mbps+ works...

[Sharktooth]

the old preset i made had 24000 bps buffer and maxbitrate limit. but there were several updates to the xbox360 firmware... and it doesnt lack the hardware capabilities...
however, as i said, every device has its own limit. including video cards.
some have DXVA that supports level 4.1 others have no restrictions... in this case, differencies are negligible but an example is you have the same (main) profile for PSP and iPad IIRC supports HIGH profile with some limitations and since the iPad display is way bigger that the one on a PSP you're crippling the iPad quality just coz you want to have 4 presets and no dedicated ones.
that could be acceptable for ripbot or staxrip or easy-to-use GUIs, but megui is not made for that purpouse. it's for the power users and ppl who want to learn.
the subsequent step is CLI (and batch files)...

[Audionut]

If I had x360 i would just check if 10mbps+ works...

Honestly, I personally don't use ripbot, but I'm sure many users are grateful for your contribution with your program.

But seriously, how on earth can you have a console preset that you don't know if it's compatible or not?

And as Sharktooth points out, the ipad supports high profile. I can only guess that you limit it for users who transfer their files with itunes.

[Atak_Snajpera]

But seriously, how on earth can you have a console preset that you don't know if it's compatible or not?
Well I have support from users ;) Personally I have PSP and i had access for some time to PS3 and Samsung blu-ray players.

since the iPad display is way bigger that the one on a PSP
WOW! Shity iPAD has amazing 4:3 resolution of 1024x768. it is not even a HD. I would just save space and used 720x576 (or 1024x576 if you don't like anamorphic resolutions)

[Sharktooth]

That's the reason i created this thread. I wish to know the limitations for several devices and eventually create a preset for megui until the --device option will be available in x264.

[Audionut]

I would just save space and used 720x576 (or 1024x576 if you don't like anamorphic resolutions)

But what if a user wants something different?

Forgive me as i've never developed a gui before, but I would have assumed that you wouldn't limit a users options based on your own ideals.

[Audionut]

create a preset for megui until the --device option will be available in x264.

Honestly, afaik DS is pushing for the support patches for the --device option fairly hard. I wouldn't be surprised to see --device in x264 very soon.

It is worth the effort to compile the list yourself and code the gui for such little time benefit!

[Sharktooth]

But what if a user wants something different?

Forgive me as i've never developed a gui before, but I would have assumed that you wouldn't limit a users options based on your own ideals.
the point is, there is already a GUI for the "tweakers".
Ripbot is fine as it is coz it just fits for the beginner, the average and even some pro users.
MeGUI is not for the beginners... and hardly for the average. So everything fits in its own place.

[Atak_Snajpera]

But what if a user wants something different?
Like stupid 1280x720 which would be always downscaled on iPAD?


Forgive me as i've never developed a gui before, but I would have assumed that you wouldn't limit a users options based on your own ideals.
You can always create your own profile if you are not happy with defaults. Profile in contrast to megui is just a plain .txt file.

but megui is not made for that purpouse. it's for the power users and ppl who want to learn.
Yes I know. Almost everything must be done manually ;)

[Sharktooth]

Exactly. So, look at it as a learning software... it doesnt make it easy for you, but at least it is a tool that connects all what you need in a single program.
If you think at it that way, once you learn how to do things in MeGUI you will automatically know what software you need and what to do if you have to do an encode "manually".
So, MeGUI doesnt "help" you making the biz easy, but just have shortcuts to make you do your stuff faster.

Edit: ... and one of those shortcuts are presets...

[Atak_Snajpera]

My philosophy is that Graphic User Interface is supposed help user with his task. Example. How many of you use command line DVD/CD burning program (cdrecord.exe for example) and how may of you use imgburn/nero/Windows burning system? Another problem is MEGUI also rely on DirectShow codecs but it does nothing to fix any problems with codecs. For example. It does not check if ffdshow is forced in Windows 7 as default decoder for AVC/vc-1/mpeg2/ and so on. For optimal vc-1 decoding ffdshow must be set for wmv9 instead of libavcodec (interlacing decoding is not supported in libavcodec)

[Audionut]

Like stupid 1280x720 which would be always downscaled on iPAD?

You think that's more stupid than,

and used 720x576

And have the device upscale instead:confused: So instead of shrinking any artifacts and making them harder to notice, you propose to enlarge them?

Wow, Just Wow. Bye.

[Sharktooth]

Honestly, afaik DS is pushing for the support patches for the --device option fairly hard. I wouldn't be surprised to see --device in x264 very soon.

It is worth the effort to compile the list yourself and code the gui for such little time benefit!
DS first talked of the --devices support several months ago, even before i had my health problems.
it's still missing... however it would be not a big problem adding a new option and converting the presets.

[Sharktooth]

My philosophy is that Graphic User Interface is supposed help user with his task. Example. How many of you use command line DVD/CD burning program (cdrecord.exe for example) and how may of you use imgburn/nero/Windows burning system?
i usually burn CD/DVDs from linux but it's also hard i burn them... so i hardly use GUIs. i just mount the iso filesystem in a directory and...

edit: however, you know there are 2 philosopies about GUIs... one is yours, the other is mine.
you will find the same differencies about, for example, windows and desktop for linux.
windows makes things easy... kde, for example, exposes a lot of options...
users must have a choice. no one is "right" in this discussion and that's why i always supported other GUIs other than MeGUI... and that's why if a user doesnt understand what to do i usually point him to ripbot or staxrip of auto*** (damn they're too much), etc.

[Atak_Snajpera]

And have the device upscale instead So instead of shrinking any artifacts and making them harder to notice, you propose to enlarge them?
ideally you should use 1024x....

[Audionut]

DS fist talked of the --devices support several months ago,

Yeah, it was planned to be done around the start of march I believe. AFAIK, blu-ray support took precedence and was a PITA.

[Sharktooth]

who wrote the blu-ray specs was a psycho...

[Audionut]

ideally you should use 1024x....

Of course, and getting back to the original discussion, afaik, high profile nets you about %10 better compression.

Which, in turn, if you were shooting for lowest bitrate,

I would just save space and

You would want to enable. Ok, this will cause some, Hey, itunes doesn't support files encoded by your gui. But surely, encouraging users to dump the crap ass apple software in favor of vastly (atleast 10%) increase in quality of their encodes for no effort at all, is a good thing!

[Audionut]

who wrote the blu-ray specs was a psycho...

Yeah, apparently, lol.

Due to a staggering display of braindamage in the Blu-ray spec

http://git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;a=commit;h=40c8c4926a78a705c263e042a780d63ca24687f4

I believe there's a few more references like that in other blu-ray specific commits.

[Sharktooth]

LOL... im not alone then...

@atak_snajpera: i have edited my post after you replied... http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1415122#post1415122

[Atak_Snajpera]

who wrote the blu-ray specs was a psycho...
amen brother! Thank god that AVCHD is not that ridiculous. No need to use slices. Even long gop works :)

[shon3i]

Even long gop worksIt works but not by spec.

AVCHD is more restrictive and ridiculous than Blu-Ray.

Things that worked for you (and other people) is just because most players follow full H264 specs not AVCHD or Blu-Ray

[Atak_Snajpera]

Things that worked for you (and other people) is just because most players follow full H264 specs not AVCHD or Blu-Ray
true. This explains why DTS is still supported in AVCHD by players;) BTW. AVCHD was designed at the begining mainly for HD camcorders.

[FraGTaLiTy]

I can't get my old presets to work after the update even when I re-add them afterwards. Is anyone else having this problem? And if so, will it be fixed in a future update?

[Sharktooth]

The problem comes from a change in the latest build (it's a development build after all...). That's due to the NAL-HRD option that became an integer (it was a boolean). So the OLD presets cant be read.
As i posted in the MeGUI patched build treads that update broke the old presets. However MeGUI should have made a backup of your old presets. So open the presets, find the HRD option and change it from "true" or "false" into ,respectively, "1" or "0", then save the file and put it back into the appropriate folder.

[Zathor]

I can't get my old presets to work after the update even when I re-add them afterwards. Is anyone else having this problem? And if so, will it be fixed in a future update?
Yes, there will be an upgrade path in one of the next builds so that the stable build users wont have this problem.

[Sharktooth]

Just did an overhaul to the x264 presets (that's for the dev version of megui).

[Sharktooth]

A whole bunch of new presets are available for the dev version of MeGUI.

[Emp3r0r]

I like the quality speed slider and don't think it is "crap"

I just want to choose a profile and then choose really slow settings :)

[Sharktooth]

i didnt meant that. i meant the presets are not what they used to be ...

[WorBry]

Thanks for the new Blu-Ray presets in Tx264 version 4.7

Minor typo - Blu-Ray 567p25 probably should be 576p25 ?

Would this preset also be suitable for 576p50 e.g a bob-deinterlaced Pal SD source?

Edit: Might be nice if the SD presets included respective sar values for standard (4:3) and anamorphic (16:9) sources, although easy enough to add to the command line oneself.

Edit2: ...but there again, that would mean 8 separate presets just for SD sources....so probably better to leave (as you have done) at default SAR 1:1 and let folks modify as they wish.

Also, the 576p50 query is maybe misplaced, as these are 'BluRay compliant' presets after all. Although, one wonders why the BluRay spec doesn't make provision for SD 50p/60p streams, as they seem to play OK on many BD standalones.

[Sharktooth]

yep, a typo... new presets are coming though ;)
Sadly 576p50 is not allowed in the BD specs. but maybe you can fool it by adding the --fake-interlaced flag (now there is a checkbox to add it).
About AR, adding them will double the presets... maybe i'll add an AR control in the x264 config window.

[Sharktooth]

New presets uploaded. More Blu-Ray presets and some fixes.

[WorBry]

Sadly 576p50 is not allowed in the BD specs. but maybe you can fool it by adding the --fake-interlaced flag (now there is a checkbox to add it).

I was wondering about that.

... maybe i'll add an AR control in the x264 config window.

Great, that would be useful. While you are at it, any possibility of the same for the colormatrix, colorprim and transfer parameters ?

[Sharktooth]

yes. i was just wondering if there is need for 3 separate controls for colormatrix, colorprim and transfer options or just one that sets those 3 to the same value.

[WorBry]

Separate control might be preferable since the original production color primaries and transfer characteristics of the source may not be known and cannot necessarily be assumed.

I guess that poses a bit of a dilemma for your presets though. Is it 'safer' to 'assume' or 'not assume'? Most of my material is self-produced camcorder footage, in which case it's reasonable to assume that the three parameters are the same. I dunno, what do other folks think?

Edit: Out of interest, what do BD players (typically) 'assume' when the colormatrix is defined, but the colorprim and transfer info is not?