WebM Exciting New Video Standard with VP8, Vorbis, Matroska

[CruNcher]

Duclair is out :)
http://blog.webmproject.org/2012/01/vp8-codec-sdk-duclair-released.html

[smok3]

Duclair is out :)
http://blog.webmproject.org/2012/01/vp8-codec-sdk-duclair-released.html

trying to compile git, but getting this at ./configure:
http://pastebin.com/NQWuG6v6
any clues?

edit: tarball did compile, does this look right?;
Included encoders:

vp8 - WebM Project VP8 Encoder v0.9.7-p1-62-g2aa4085

How would a best, good, fast cq based ffmpeg command line look like?

[nakTT]

I have tried this WebM to encode my video. Unfortunately at this stage it still lagging (in video quality - my test was at 500kbps) way behind x264. Hope it will progress fast for the better.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Am I crazy, or is YouTube's 480p config for WebM BETTER quality than their h.264 one? I used this video as my test case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnc-c2SCz_0

Even crazier is that the 480p FLV is 48.7MB while the 480p WebM is 39.7MB! O_o (and apparently the WebM versions even have better audio quality as well)


Also interesting, if you don't have a hardware h.264 decoder, WebM uses less CPU. This is particularly noticable with older PCs, specifically YouTube's 720p WebM files can actually run well on a lowly 2GHz Pentium 4 (that is, assuming you're playing the file in a dedicated media player) while h.264 is a stutter-fest.

[Midzuki]

Am I crazy, or is YouTube's 480p config for WebM BETTER quality than their h.264 one? I used this video as my test case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnc-c2SCz_0

Even crazier is that the 480p FLV is 48.7MB while the 480p WebM is 39.7MB! O_o (and apparently the WebM versions even have better audio quality as well)


Also interesting, if you don't have a hardware h.264 decoder, WebM uses less CPU. This is particularly noticable with older PCs, specifically YouTube's 720p WebM files can actually run well on a lowly 2GHz Pentium 4 (that is, assuming you're playing the file in a dedicated media player) while h.264 is a stutter-fest.

That looks and sounds incredibly weird O_o

So I'd like to know if:

1) which VP8 encoder has become faster && more-efficient lately?

2) which VP8 decoder has finally become decently-fast?

Three months ago (IIRC), last time I tried a WebM file from YouTube on my Pentium-4 through Opera 11.50, the playback dropped tons of frames, and the audio sync was simply impossible. :scared:

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

That looks and sounds incredibly weird O_o

What is this "that" you're referring to? Do you mean the video, the post, the WebM having better quality, or something else?

(note that I do not think I can answer your questions - I specialize in audio, and definitely not video)

[dapperdan]

Looks like Google is ready to go public with work on what will become VP9 (or VP8+, it's not clear to me how radical they intend to be):

https://gerrit.chromium.org/gerrit/#change,17840

[vivan]

Even crazier is that the 480p FLV is 48.7MB while the 480p WebM is 39.7MB! O_oconfig for WebM BETTER quality than their h.264 one?quality? I don't think so. http://www.check2pic.ru/compare/12266/

In other cases youtube gives webm higher bitrate. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APyr48GACzc
21.6 MB for 1080p mp4, 13.6 MB for 720p mp4... And 33.0 MB for 720p webm. Lol.

[Midzuki]

What is this "that" you're referring to? Do you mean the video, the post, the WebM having better quality, or something else?

All of the above, including the "something else". :)

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

quality? I don't think so. http://www.check2pic.ru/compare/12266/

In other cases youtube gives webm higher bitrate. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APyr48GACzc
21.6 MB for 1080p mp4, 13.6 MB for 720p mp4... And 33.0 MB for 720p webm. Lol.

I said at 480p. From what it looks like, the situation is reversed, with WebM having better video, audio, AND a smaller filesize. (unless I AM crazy. :P)

Note that, in particular, 480p h.264 uses 'Main' profile rather than 'High'.

EDIT: Take a look at these two images - I can't read Russian, so I can't make a comparison-thingy like you did (note that both images have 200% nearest neighbor applied to make them easier to see):
WebM (http://i.imgur.com/lRsSD.png)
H.264 (http://i.imgur.com/ke1ah.png)

It would seem that it's not as clear-cut as it is for 720p. The HUD, sky, and building on the left looks better on h.264, but the water and track looks better on WebM. The spires in the distance are a toss-up to me.

[Rumbah]

But aren't the .flv ones H263, only the mp4s are H264?

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

No, only 240p uses h.263. All other resolutions use h.264, but only the HD resolutions use 'High' profile, while the 360p and 480p FLV formats use 'Main'. (the 360p MP4 format uses 'Baseline')

Or at least, that's what it was when I last checked around 6 months ago. (about the same time they added 480p WebM)

[poisondeathray]

Both 480p versions look bad overall.

Some frames are better in the h.264 version, some are worse

A single frame doesn't tell the whole story. You could cherrypick and chose if you had an agenda. eg. You might compare a I frame vs. a P frame for example

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Both 480p versions look bad overall.

F-Zero GX is known to be notoriously hard for video compression due to its extremely high-speed gameplay without using any "softening" post-process effects like bloom lighting and motion blur that many modern games use. This in turn is the exact reason why I like to use it for video quality and performance tests. ;)

A single frame doesn't tell the whole story. You could cherrypick and chose if you had an agenda. eg. You might compare a I frame vs. a P frame for example

That's why I didn't do a single frame comparison originally. However, someone ended up doing one anyway, but with the wrong resolution in question. Therefore I had no choice but to follow up...

[poisondeathray]

Well h.264 has the potential to do a better job.

If this is correct, webm seems gets preferential audio treatment with higher bitrate (vorbis)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Quality_and_codecs

Maybe it's youtube/google's attempt at sabotage , and increasing the relevance of webm? :sly:

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

But my internet bandwidth doesn't have the potential to stream 720p. >_>

As for the audio, at 480p, both audio codecs have the same bitrate, and yet SUPPOSEDLY WebM still had better audio quality.

[poisondeathray]

As for the audio, at 480p, both audio codecs have the same bitrate, and yet SUPPOSEDLY WebM still had better audio quality.

Hmmm, that's not what mediainfo shows

480p h.264

Audio
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 10
Duration : 4mn 19s
Bit rate : 96.7 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 2.99 MiB (6%)



480p webm

udio
ID : 2
Format : Vorbis
Format settings, Floor : 1
Codec ID : A_VORBIS
Duration : 4mn 19s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 3.95 MiB (10%)
Language : English



And in case mediainfo is incorrect, demuxed audio filesize

AAC 3.03MB
vorbis 4.00MB

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Using this as my example video (uploaded only 2 weeks ago):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tel_s-wfsxk

MediaInfo says 129kbps for the 480p FLV and 128kbps for the 480p WebM.

(I have no idea how you did exported that info, so you'll just have to download the videos and see yourself)


EDIT: The FLV's audio by itself in an MKA is 2.25MB while the WebM's is 2.26MB.

[poisondeathray]

Using this as my example video (uploaded only 2 weeks ago):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tel_s-wfsxk

MediaInfo says 129kbps for the 480p FLV and 128kbps for the 480p WebM.

(I have no idea how you did exported that info, so you'll just have to download the videos and see yourself)

Audio bitrate looks to be about the same in this example, but big discrepancy in video bitrate for the 480p versions

WebM 1630kbps
h.264 1182kbps

I don't know what you mean by "export that info", did you mean mediainfo report? use view=>text then copy & paste :)

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Yes, the video bitrate IS a lot higher for WebM. It would seem they've changed a setting between when that first video I linked to was uploaded, because it has the WebM verson have a SMALLER filesize than the FLV.

But about the audio, from what I've read on the internets, even with the same bitrate the WebM's audio is supposedly higher quality due to the AAC encoder YouTube uses or something.