Youtube is butchering my quality!

[fonebone10]

My quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I8Aa7SoIa4&feature=player_embedded

Raw File: http://rapidshare.com/files/380094884/Untitled-muxed.mp4

Where am I going wrong?

[Keiyakusha]

Looks fine to me. Youtube always doing reencoding. Video on youtube has something like 5 times less bitrate than your raw file and encoder probably outdated.

[fonebone10]

Then why does this guy have such good quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X54LEk6RKnA

[Keiyakusha]

I'm not saying the quality can't be better, I'm saying in your case its fine to me. That guy's video on youtube has higher bitrate. Maybe he uploaded video with better quality (or even lossless) and/or higher resolution. His video is much longer which is depending on what mode youtube uses for encoding absolutely can affect quality. It is possible that there is some other little tricks to get a bit better quality. You should use search for this, it was discussed many times.

[fonebone10]

Well, my quality ought to be better, as I'm capturing with a Blackmagic Intensity Pro (Compressed MJPEG, HDMI) and he's recording with a Hauppauge HD-PVR, which encodes all incoming video with H.264. Could you at least recommend some render settings/what you think would make the quality better? As of right now, I'm rendering with MeGUI, and Sony Vegas Pro 9

[CWR03]

I don't see anything wrong with your YouTube video, but I did view the 720p version. The regular one does look pretty bad, which is something you can't control in any way.

[fonebone10]

Compared to the other guy's video, mine seems a lot more choppy, blocky... it's probably a youtube bitrate problem, but it's a problem nonetheless. I would like it fixed, which is why I am asking the guys here in Doom9 to help me out, since I know jack shit about video encoding, other than basic MeGUI stuff.

[Keiyakusha]

fonebone10
As I said you can search for some older threads, maybe there is some tips, workarounds for youtube. Other than that, you have absolutely no control over youtube's quality. All you can do is to upload video with higher quality to begin with, which means higher resolution with higher bitrate or even lossless (but be careful with filesize limit - 2GB if i remember correctly). If this doesn't helps, then that guy is more lucky than you.

[7ekno]

Capturing to H264 will always be better than MJPEG (which requires ~ 4x the bitrate for similar output), plus Vegas is pretty aweful for quality as well ...

He's probably just straight out uploading the H264 encode from the capture ...

Your's is going thru a few various conversions from a pretty aweful (MJPEG) source ...

7
PS as mentioned, you have no control over what youtube decides to butcher the video too ...

[fonebone10]

What if I captured uncompressed instead of MJPEG?

And no, he is not straight uploading the gameplay, as there is color correction, and commentary, and audio adjustments. He had to have used Vegas.




For best quality, do you guys think I should sell my Blackmagic Intensity Pro for a Hauppauge?

[Warperus]

Capturing to MJPEG should keep more details than H264 provided you have enough bitrate. Capturing uncompressed is even better.
I don't think that Hauppauge will give better results for you.
What file type? codec and settings do you use to render your file in Vegas?

[fonebone10]

Sorry about the late delay, I was upgrading/moving my computer, and I've also been busy...

The way I render is as such:

I record with BlackMagic Media Express 2, @720p, 59.97 (Compressed MJPEG) onto a 4 TB RAID 0 Setup.

I import the file into Sony Vegas, and my project settings are:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/ProjectProperties.png

Then, I render the video and audio seperately. I render the video in AVI, with the Lagarith Codec. The settings are as follows:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/render1.png

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/render2.png

This is the Lagarith Codec settings:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/render3.png

So I open meGUI and create a script:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/script.png

Finally, these are my meGUI settings
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/megui1.png

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/MeGui2.png

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/Megui3.png

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/MeGui4.png

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/fonebone10/megui5.png

[Keiyakusha]

Can you record in higher resolution? If yes - do so. EDIT: if you can't, maybe you can upscale video a bit so youtube will think that resolution is higher and will encode with better settings.
Do not capture to mjpeg, use lossless if you can and if you have enough space.
Adjust your megui settings so they won't be very insane but the resulting file size will be little less than 2Gb.
Also if somehow framerate is ~60fps - decimate that down to ~30fps (or better capture at 30 or even 24 fps)

[fonebone10]

Can you record in higher resolution? If yes - do so. EDIT: if you can't, maybe you can upscale video a bit so youtube will think that resolution is higher and will encode with better settings.
Do not capture to mjpeg, use lossless if you can and if you have enough space.
Adjust your megui settings so they won't be very insane but the resulting file size will be little less than 2Gb.
Also if somehow framerate is ~60fps - decimate that down to ~30fps (or better capture at 30 or even 24 fps)

I was under the impression that 720p > 1080i for recording video games? Also, how exactly do I upscale? I can record lossless if necessary. How should I adjust the settings? I will record with 30 fps when my BMIP comes back, since I RMA'd it, it stopped working the other day.

[7ekno]

The decimation is your problem, you haven't defined how it's being done, you have just forced it down via DirectShowSource ... DirectShowSource is also not frame accurate on MP4 ...

Also, I don't understand the purpose of Vegas, MeGUI handles trims and will import MJPEG directly from AVI (with the right codecs) ...

If final aim is 30fps, best to capture losslessly at 30fps and work from there ...

7ek

[Warperus]

fonebone10
Youtube will convert your video to 29,97 so it's good idea to capture, process and code in this framerate.
Ideally 24/25 fps is accepted as well, but due to some bug it's possible they'll be converted to 29.97.

If youtube is your only target you can forget about MeGUI. Simply render file in Vegas using internal Mainconcept AVC codec with high enough bitrate.
Main profile, Variable bitrate 25M average, 40M max should be more than enough for preserving quality. I even think it's an overkill. File size for 10 minutes video will be a bit less than 2Gb - just the limit Youtube accepts.

7ekno
I don't understand the purpose of Vegas
Vegas is convenient and versatile tool for such video editing. It has much more than just trims, crops and color corrections.

[fonebone10]

Unfortunately, the Media Express software will not let you record in 30 fps...

[Warperus]

Unfortunately, the Media Express software will not let you record in 30 fps...
Well, then decimate fps in Vegas.
Set it up in project settings and select "Disable Resample" in event properties for every captured video you import.

By the way, check your video for levels range. In Vegas open Histogram scope (Ctrl+Alt+2, select Histogram) and check mean min/max values on it. It should be in 16-235 range to be processed normally.

[fonebone10]

fonebone10
Youtube will convert your video to 29,97 so it's good idea to capture, process and code in this framerate.
Ideally 24/25 fps is accepted as well, but due to some bug it's possible they'll be converted to 29.97.

If youtube is your only target you can forget about MeGUI. Simply render file in Vegas using internal Mainconcept AVC codec with high enough bitrate.
Main profile, Variable bitrate 25M average, 40M max should be more than enough for preserving quality. I even think it's an overkill. File size for 10 minutes video will be a bit less than 2Gb - just the limit Youtube accepts.

7ekno
Vegas is convenient and versatile tool for such video editing. It has much more than just trims, crops and color corrections.
Results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex_x7OrMKHI

There's still a lot of artifacts, etc...

I also disabled resample.

[Warperus]

fonebone10
Some fragments of your video are way harder for encoding than others.
Google encoded your video with the following settings:

Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1mn 42s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 828 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 7 750 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.917 fps
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.103
Stream size : 34.7 MiB (96%)
Title : (C) 2007 Google Inc. v08.13.2007.
Encoded date : UTC 2010-05-10 01:39:35
Tagged date : UTC 2010-05-10 01:39:36

As you can see maximum bitrate is times more than overall bitrate. Good quality for such cases can eat even more, but bitrate is limited by encoder in order to obey overall bitrate settings.

I see few possibilities for "quality increase":
1) Add some light content to your movie. For example, you can add 10 seconds caption in the beginning. Add 30-60 seconds titles in the end, name youself, thank your mother/father/teacher/friend, name your game, its version, game publisher, developer etc. Well, be creative in words, but make titles as simple for encoding as possible (stationary text on stationary background is best). As stationary images are compressed very well, encoder will be able to borrow bitrate reserved for this light part and give it to hard parts of your movie.
Of cause, this method has its limits and it's hard to expect 25Mbps max bitrate in this case.
2) Reduce details of hard-to-encode pieces to increase their compressibility. Most common way to do so is denoise filter. You can find one though google search. You can also use blur.
3) Trick viewer to avoid hard-to-encode pieces. Add screen freeze or zoom in, make flash/pixelate/push transition etc.

Do you see such artifacts in Vegas rendered movie? I hope not. It's just bitrate limits in youtube.

[2Bdecided]

it's content dependent.

also youtube changes its encoding quite often, seemingly at random.

Cheers,
David.

[Ghitulescu]

My quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I8Aa7SoIa4&feature=player_embedded

Raw File: http://rapidshare.com/files/380094884/Untitled-muxed.mp4

Where am I going wrong?

Sorry if I'm too rude: who cares? Youtube is a presentation portal, not an video exchange platform.

The best way was presented some months(/years??) ago by someone, who found the encoding parameters so that youtube didn't reencode. So you encode with these parameters at the best quality you can be allowed (encoder, configuration) and upload the video.

The second best option is always to use the RAWest quality possible (ie not your encoding of a DVD to MP4, but the DVD itself, or the DV video, and so on). Here you went wrong.

[video_magic]

Rather than starting a new thread then (I was searching for help on encoding for youtube/does youtube always re-encode?):

The best option seems to be just upload the original video if it is a small enough file, you will preserve as much detail as possible then (i.e. inevitable youtube reencode should have better quality).

p.s. Someone asked me to upload a clip from their camera phone of their friends to youtube. I had assumed youtube would have a page for the settings uploaders could use for their video clips - but no, apparantly youtube just encodes its' self whatever you upload. Don't know what will happen yet to an already-poor quality cameraphone clip!

[CWR03]

YouTube won't re-encode all videos - I uploaded a .mov file I took from my digital camera and it's as completely crisp and clear as the original.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Youtube certainly does re-encode all videos, last I heard!

In your case, CWR03, your source may have been good enough to survive their compression. They do use x264 across the board I think.

Derek

[CWR03]

YouTube absolutely did not re-encode my video. The reason I'm certain is that in that particular case it was available to play as soon as it had finished uploading. With every other source I had uploaded, it took some time for it to become available because it said it was encoding it.

[Warperus]

CWR03
Do you by any chance remember file specs?

[Ghitulescu]

They change over time, unfortunately.

[AnonCrow]

YouTube absolutely did not re-encode my video. The reason I'm certain is that in that particular case it was available to play as soon as it had finished uploading.

Well, they just might've transcoded it on the fly.

Did you doublecheck by actually downloading
all resulting flv and mp4 files and checking if any of them
had the same exact video stream as the uploaded mov file ?

[MKVCrazy]

Why are you getting help when I got warned asking for help converting YouTube videos ??

[Guest]

Why are you getting help when I got warned asking for help converting YouTube videos ?? Rule 17: no discussion of forum rules.

@all

Do not respond to this post.

@MKVCrazy

You can clarify questions like that in PM to a moderator. In this case, the files were not copyrighted:

"I uploaded a .mov file I took from my digital camera"

In your case, you were discussing complete anime episodes you downloaded.

You may appeal moderation decisions using the documented process.

[fonebone10]

Sorry if I'm too rude: who cares? Youtube is a presentation portal, not an video exchange platform.

The best way was presented some months(/years??) ago by someone, who found the encoding parameters so that youtube didn't reencode. So you encode with these parameters at the best quality you can be allowed (encoder, configuration) and upload the video.

The second best option is always to use the RAWest quality possible (ie not your encoding of a DVD to MP4, but the DVD itself, or the DV video, and so on). Here you went wrong.

I like to have the best video quality so people can see what's going on when I'm playing. Right now, they can barely make out what's happening. I like having crystal clear quality.

[Ghitulescu]

I like to have the best video quality so people can see what's going on when I'm playing. Right now, they can barely make out what's happening. I like having crystal clear quality.

Send them the Bluray. Or set up your own web page and upload there the best quality clips you have.

Youtube and crystal clear quality doesn't rhyme very well.