HD DVB-T specifications

[jumpjack]

Where could I find HD DVB-T specifications?
Integrated DVB-T decoder of my Samsung TV set is capable of tuning HD channels and it also plays the sound, but it shows black screen, so I wonder if it could be justy reprogrammed with a new codec to be able to decode HD streams.

[pandy]

something like HD DVB-T not exist - DVB-T is a type of RF modulation for terrestial DTV transmission - Your TV decoder is MPEG-2 or H.264? - most (if not all)HD videos on DVB-T/T2 is a H.264 not MPEG-2 - older TV are capable only to decode MPEG-2 then channel with HD can be added to the list available channels but can't be decoded.

[jumpjack]

something like HD DVB-T not exist - DVB-T is a type of RF modulation for terrestial DTV transmission - Your TV decoder is MPEG-2 or H.264?

Don't know: it's an HD TV with SD DTT...

- most (if not all) DVB-T video is a H.264 not MPEG-2 - older TV are capable only to decode MPEG-2

So, as I said, it's a matter of codec.

[Gser]

Really?? There is no HD DVB-T as the specification and the limited trasmission capacity do not support high definition content. What you are looking for is DVB-T2. As of now there are no integrated DVB-T2 solutions, hence your Samsung only supports HD DVB-C transmissions. DVB-T2 is in testing and should be more broadly available threw Europe this year but you will need to purhase an external receiver. No it is not "just" a matter of codec.

[kieranrk]

There are some places with H.264 over DVB-T. France iirc.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Where could I find HD DVB-T specifications?
Integrated DVB-T decoder of my Samsung TV set is capable of tuning HD channels and it also plays the sound, but it shows black screen, so I wonder if it could be justy reprogrammed with a new codec to be able to decode HD streams.If you're in the UK, your TV's DVB-T decoder will support standard-def MPEG-2 sources only... All high-def DVB-T2 transmissions in the UK will be broadcast in MPEG-4 AVC.

For more info, look here: http://www.dtg.org.uk/consumer/dvbt2.html

[jumpjack]

Really?? There is no HD DVB-T as the specification and the limited trasmission capacity do not support high definition content. What you are looking for is DVB-T2. As of now there are no integrated DVB-T2 solutions, hence your Samsung only supports HD DVB-C transmissions. DVB-T2 is in testing and should be more broadly available threw Europe this year but you will need to purhase an external receiver. No it is not "just" a matter of codec.
here in italy we HAVE tv-sets capable of receiving HD DTT signals! Do I really need to buy a new TVjust to have a new codec?!? :confused:

[SeeMoreDigital]

here in italy we HAVE tv-sets capable of receiving HD DTT signals! Do I really need to buy a new TVjust to have a new codec?!? :confused:If Italy decides to broadcast HDTV in MPEG-4 AVC and your TV only supports MPEG-2, then yes, you'll have to buy a new TV (or set-top box).

[jumpjack]

great.

[Gser]

here in italy we HAVE tv-sets capable of receiving HD DTT signals! Do I really need to buy a new TVjust to have a new codec?!? :confused:
*sighs* Did you not bother reading my post at all? There is no HD DVB-T, only DVB-T2 which your tv does not support. DVB-T Does not support high definition broadcasts. Your tv supports only high definition CABLE broadcasts threw DVB-C. Even if your tv supports MPEG4 it will not be able to read DVB-T2 broadcasts.

[pandy]

Don't know: it's an HD TV with SD DTT...


So You have clear answer - if this is SD then it will no support for HD content (MPEG-2 or H.264 or any similar)


So, as I said, it's a matter of codec.

There a two things:

RF modulation - ie DVB-T or DVB-T2 - receiver MUST be capable to receive DVB-T and DVB-T2 (usually DVB-T2 capable receivers support DVB-T)

Video compression (codec) - HD MPEG-2 decoder usually support SD MPEG-2, maybe MPEG-1 and nothing else. H.264 is far more complex for typical MPEG-2 hardware to decode (more processing power, more RAM, more MHz, more logic gates)

Conclusion is quite simple - You need to change TV or buy external DTV decoder capable to receive, demodulate DVB-T and DVB-T2 also it must be capable to decode H.264 HP@L4.1

HD can be transmitted even on DVB-T - RF modulation and video compression are not related in any way (until bitrate of transmission is sufficient from compressed video stream point of view).

[burfadel]

How old is the tv? Every manufacturer out there worldwide has whacked the HDTV description on basically any tv that can accept HD input. Years ago when plasmas were a new thing, most of them were 848x480 and they claimed they were HD. In actual fact, 848x480 is lower resolution than standard def here in Australia!

If your TV has only got a SD digital tuner it won't work with HD tv channels. The HD acceptance of the tv would be through HDMI or component, but the actual res of the tv is probably 1024x768 or something similar (that is, not true HD which is 1920x1080.

The reason why that is important is if there is an SD channel broadcasting the same material as the HD channel, you won't notice too much difference between the two unless the broadcaster has crippled the SD bandwidth or processing. Samsung make great TV's, the picture quality is probably better even in SD mode than many lower quality true HD tv's!

Check the Samsung Italy website (since thats where you are), there may be a software update for your TV. This won't change your issue, but may improve other areas.

[trondmm]

*sighs* Did you not bother reading my post at all? There is no HD DVB-T, only DVB-T2 which your tv does not support. DVB-T Does not support high definition broadcasts. Your tv supports only high definition CABLE broadcasts threw DVB-C. Even if your tv supports MPEG4 it will not be able to read DVB-T2 broadcasts.

While I agree that there's nothing called "HD DVB-T", you're plain wrong about DVB-T not being able to support HD broadcasts. It's simply a matter of codecs and how much bitrate you want to dedicate to a single channel.

A single 8MHz wide DVB-T channel will give you an effective datarate of about 22Mbps, and this is enough for HD broadcasts, even when using MPEG2.

In Norway, we're using DVB-T (not DVB-T2), and all channels use h.264 and HE-AAC codecs. Currently two channels broadcast in HD (one in 1080i and one in 720p). TVs with a DVB-T tuner, that supports MPEG4, can be used to view HD broadcasts without an external decoder (you need a CAM to view the subscription channels, of course).

I've successfully decoded and recorded HD broadcasts using a Hauppauge HVR-900 (http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_hvr900.html) DVB-T USB stick. I highly doubt that this stick is DVB-T2 compliant, so I really don't think we're secretly using DVB-T2 here.

[Przemek_Sperling]

Can anyone tell me if there are any formal regulations how DVB-T AVC signal should be broadcasted? I mean any specific AVC profile (high profile?)?

BTW, even such backwarded countries like Poland broadcasted HDTV AVC DVB-T programs. The name of the channel was TVP HD (state television). It will come back in early autumn. I received it with an Avermedia DVB-T card (http://www.avermedia.com/avertv/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=21) I used both the bundled software and Mirillis Splash Lite http://www.mirillis.com/splash.html

[kieranrk]

Can anyone tell me if there are any formal regulations how DVB-T AVC signal should be broadcasted? I mean any specific AVC profile (high profile?)?


ETSI TS 101 154 and sometimes some country-specific regulations. (e.g. DTG Blue-book in the UK)

[daWsOn_s]

Really?? There is no HD DVB-T as the specification and the limited trasmission capacity do not support high definition content. What you are looking for is DVB-T2. As of now there are no integrated DVB-T2 solutions, hence your Samsung only supports HD DVB-C transmissions. DVB-T2 is in testing and should be more broadly available threw Europe this year but you will need to purhase an external receiver. No it is not "just" a matter of codec.

you're wrong both Italy and France (and others) are using HD over DVB-T1, no need for second version!

So jumpjack, if your TV says it has an HD tuner it means it supports AVC HD streams, otherwise the tuner will only support MPEG-2 SD streams

[mariush]

In Romania there are tests done and some tv stations broadcast more or less 24 hours a day using plain old DVB-T and AVC 1080i ... It's only in the capital of the country and I believe some cities close to some emitters for now but by 2012 all analogic broadcasts should end.

You can use Google Translate on this forum if you care to read more about it : http://www.rdi-board.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29

As far as I know a 8 Mhz channel can hold about 24 mbps ... looking at this page (http://www.digitalbitrate.com/dbr.php?link=0&sat=1&lang=en#10788) it looks like most "serious" channels use about 7-12 mbps for 720p and 10-14mbps for 1080p. But it's satellite - they may not care that much for terrestrial broadcasts and use lower bitrates.

It wouldn't surprise me for some tv channels here to remain at SD resolutions at about 2 mbps, news channels to stay at 720p @ about 4-5 mbps and the rest at 1080i 8-10 mbps... i think there'll be 3 or 4 8 Mhz channels so unless they squeeze the bitrate they won't fit the 10-15 channels we have here in Romania.