Avatar to use BD+ 5?

[JohnPeterson]

Any news on the rumor that the Avatar Bluray use a new BD+?

[setarip_old]

We'll all know on the day it's released (4/22, a Thursday).

Perhaps (for those who are actually interested in the movie itself) more important than whether it'll have a new iteration of BD+, is that it will be in 2D and the disc will contain no extras, no trailers, no menus, just high quality video...

[JohnPeterson]

Perhaps (for those who are actually interested in the movie itself) more important than whether it'll have a new iteration of BD+, is that it will be in 2D and the disc will contain no extras, no trailers, no menus, just high quality video...
Thanks. But remember that this is the "Decrypting" forum. This type of comment may be considered off-topic.

[setarip_old]

Again, we'll all know on the day it's released (4/22, a Thursday).

[gtrplyr2]

I have a copy and it does use bd+5

[JohnPeterson]

I have a copy and it does use bd+5

I've been watching the slysoft forums but there's no ETA or further information yet. No word from makemkv either.

[setarip_old]

@gtrplyr2

Hi!

Since the official release date is April 22, may I please ask you how I too can purchase it ahead of schedule?

[battscrew]

@gtrplyr2

Hi!

Since the official release date is April 22, may I please ask you how I too can purchase it ahead of schedule?

I have heard the same in other forums - some online retailers shipped early to customers, or work at large video rental companies.

[SamuriHL]

There are a number of sites that break the street date on DVD's and Blu-rays. Several people have posted logs from different countries (regions) for Avatar at this point on the SlySoft forum. There has been no word on when AnyDVD will be updated to handle this disc, but, I'm assuming they're probably working on it or are at least aware of it at this point. I've not seen anyone reporting on whether DVDFab Passkey or MakeMKV works with this title, but, I'm sure it's not widely available until the official release date. I won't have my copy until the official street date, either, so, as of yet I'm not worrying too much about it.

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

Hi!There are a number of sites that break the street date on DVD's and Blu-rays. Several people have posted logs from different countries (regions) for Avatar at this point on the SlySoft forum. Then, as I previously asked of "grtplyr2" earlier in this thread, would you be good enough to share that information, so that I too can legally purchase it ahead of the release date?

Thanks.

[BigDid]

Hi,

@SamuriHL
... would you be good enough to share that information, so that I too can legally purchase it ahead of the release date?


... I won't have my copy until the official street date, either, ...

:confused: :rolleyes:

Did

[SamuriHL]

Hey I never claimed to order my discs from places that break the street date! Only that I know such places exist. :D

DVDWorldUSA.com

For instance, has been mentioned as one possible place.

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

No accusations - I just asked that you share what you spoke of - and you have.

Thank you ;>}

[Guest]

Guys, please take that discussion to PM and stick to technical issues with decrypting Avatar.

@setarip_old

Please do not derail threads in this manner. Thank you.

[Wombler]

There are a number of sites that break the street date on DVD's and Blu-rays. Several people have posted logs from different countries (regions) for Avatar at this point on the SlySoft forum. There has been no word on when AnyDVD will be updated to handle this disc, but, I'm assuming they're probably working on it or are at least aware of it at this point. I've not seen anyone reporting on whether DVDFab Passkey or MakeMKV works with this title, but, I'm sure it's not widely available until the official release date. I won't have my copy until the official street date, either, so, as of yet I'm not worrying too much about it.

I've seen one unconfirmed report so far that DVDFab can't handle the Blu-ray version but I'm not sure about the DVD.


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

I'm sure we'll find out more on Thursday about what can and can't handle it. I've seen nothing so far that suggests any program can handle it at this point. There are even reports that TMT3 build 170 is having pixelation issues when trying to play it which suggests the BD+ isn't being properly removed. (That's without the use of a decrypter...just in general it can't play the disc like it should) So I suspect this one's going to be a pain for everyone for a while.

[bgbop15]

i can confirm DVDFab handled the avatar dvd like a champ, but NOTHING could handle the BD+ ...yet.

[SamuriHL]

All we can do is wait until our favorite program is updated to handle this one. I won't be getting it until Thursday anyway, so, maybe we'll see an update by then to handle it.

[pynux]

nobody know if a newer version of BDMV Debugger exist or for the futur with the new methode for removable BD+ ?

[toytown]

but NOTHING could handle the BD+ ...yet

DVDFab now handles the Avatar BD+

[dirio49]

So can
AnyDVD (HD) 6.6.3.6 beta

[setarip_old]

DVDFab now handles the Avatar BD+Based on postings by "fengtao" and members of the DVDFab Forum, this is not totally correct:

1) A post by "fengtao" acknowledges that UK and Asia versions have not yet been solved

2) Posts by several members indicate no success with regard to other regions' versions that "fengtao" indicated were solved - US ( one of two versions), France, Canada, Germany

3) And a subsequent post by "fengtao" seems to indicate that DVDFab is presently limited to "movie only" backups

[SamuriHL]

AnyDVD is currently having some issues with different regions, as well, so, this seems like a tough little disc.

[b66pak]

the question is: can be played in bd players (and PS3) without updating the firmware?
_

[SamuriHL]

Some, yes. Others will probably need an update.

[Superb]

AnyDVD (HD) 6.6.3.7 beta
6.6.3.7 2010 04 23
- New (Blu-ray): Added support for new BD+ protections, e.g. "Avatar" (US)
- New (HD DVD & Blu-ray): Added events for HD DVD and Blu-ray discs
to the option to start external programs
- New (Blu-ray): Updated decryption keys
- New (DVD): Added support for new protections
- Fix (DVD): DVD video mode detection
- Added more programs to the list requiring "aggressive I/O mode"
- Some minor fixes and improvements
- Updated languages

Note regarding Avatar BD: This version will work with both US versions of the disc (RED_BIRD_2D_WW).
It will work with the European "RED_BIRD_2D_F3" version of the disc (e.g., France, Germany, Switzerland, ...)


Information regarding players:

Now, with the help of AnyDVD, Avatar will play on those players that previously couldn't handle the disc, like ArcSoft TMT3 or older versions of PowerDVD.
Note that PowerDVD 10 build 1516 has a bug due to which Avatar sometimes will not play but get stuck in a black screen. This is not a protection issue.
There is an update available for PowerDVD 10 that handles this.

[setarip_old]

Based on the post by "Superb", it looks like SlySoft is (as mentioned in general terms by "SamuriHL") still having regional problems with the "Avatar" BluRay release - specifically, Canada, Asia, United Kingdom (?)

My guess is that it will take another two days until the "three major players" (Apparently no announcement yet from MakeMKV) have it all sorted out...

[SamuriHL]

Nope. Canada and UK should be fixed now. Asia (Hong Kong, Korea, Japan) seem to be an issue still. Europe, US, Canada, and UK should be fine with AnyDVD 6.5.3.7.

[Fredthefrenchy]

Is that mean that we can't use dumphd to dump the AVATAR bluray ?

When I try to do it, I have this error message :
[W] TRAP_DeviceAccess not implemented!
[W] TRAP_DeviceAccess not implemented!
[W] TRAP_DeviceAccess not implemented!
[W] TRAP_DeviceAccess not implemented!
[Event #00000002] EVENT_PlaybackFile( 00000000, 00000001 )
[I] TRAP_LoadContentCode: Loading BDSVM/00002.svm (block 0)
[I] TRAP_GetConversionTable: Received new subtables: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,
28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,
69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,
107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,
136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149,150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,
165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,Exception in thread "Thread-7" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 700
at bdvm.vm.conv_tab_main.setConversionTable(conv_tab_main.java:43)
at bdvm.vm.decoder.getConversionTable(decoder.java:55)
at bdvm.vm.bdsvm_player_interface.TRAP_handler(bdsvm_player_interface.java:658)
at bdvm.vm.BDVM.step(BDVM.java:391)
at bdvm.vm.BDVM.run(BDVM.java:112)
at dumphd.core.DumpHD.dumpSource(DumpHD.java:589)
at dumphd.gui.MainFrame$5$1.run(MainFrame.java:404)
at dumphd.gui.Manager$3.construct(Manager.java:204)
at dumphd.gui.SwingWorker$2.run(SwingWorker.java:99)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:636)


I use this key :
27ABDD19AE93BC8A8555D734E55318151A2A2230=RED_BIRD_2D_F3 | D | 2010-03-10| M | 11D37B3C04BB5972B8F4EC467D8635D5 | I | 20DD108FA56940FAEA75DEC49EE5E0C5 | V | BF5FE445C0709C22164615CFF806B052 ; mkbv16 BD+

[Doom9]

Is that mean that we can't use dumphd to dump the AVATAR bluray ?I wonder how you could've missed the fact that development of the open source BD+ library has stopped a long time ago.. they couldn't handle titles released starting November 08 (if memory serves me right) and anything after that. You need to go for AnyDVD HD or DVDFab Passkey and even they can't do every version out there right now (at the time I'm typing this at least.. the situation could change any day though).

[Fredthefrenchy]

I wonder how you could've missed the fact that development of the open source BD+ library has stopped a long time ago.. they couldn't handle titles released starting November 08 (if memory serves me right) and anything after that. You need to go for AnyDVD HD or DVDFab Passkey and even they can't do every version out there right now (at the time I'm typing this at least.. the situation could change any day though).

Sorry, but I work only with Linux, not with windows. And some rescent blurays are working with dumphd, but not all for sure. Thanks for your advise.

Regards,

Fred

[cybersharky]

I ripped mine (RED_BIRD_2D_F2) with DVDFab Passkey.

[Doom9]

And some rescent blurays are working with dumphd, but not all for sure.Yeah, those for which you found a VUK and that don't use BD+. Your best bet is waiting for MakeMKV to be updated (handles the latest AACS without needing a key for each disk plus all BD+ minus Avatar) - they have a Linux version as well.

[Fredthefrenchy]

Yeah, those for which you found a VUK and that don't use BD+. Your best bet is waiting for MakeMKV to be updated (handles the latest AACS without needing a key for each disk plus all BD+ minus Avatar) - they have a Linux version as well.

I tried makeMKV, it's a good tool. Unfortunatly it's not free and no AVATAR.

Thanks.

[SamuriHL]

I tried makeMKV, it's a good tool. Unfortunatly it's not free and no AVATAR.

Thanks.

I think you're going to need to come to the realization that for Linux, it's really you're only viable option. There's no free tool out there that's going to do Avatar. I'm all for Linux and free software, but, sometimes the expectations have to be adjusted when dealing with that world.

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL Europe, US, Canada, and UK should be fine with AnyDVD 6.5.3.7. Unless I've misinterpreted some posts I've read at other forums, AnyDVDHD still has problems with some of those releases, as well as Asia.

It's interesting/curious to note that although the majority of the versions use MKBv.16, at least one uses MKBv.15...

[SamuriHL]

@SamuriHL Unless I've misinterpreted some posts I've read at other forums, AnyDVDHD still has problems with some of those releases, as well as Asia.

It's interesting/curious to note that although the majority of the versions use MKBv.16, at least one uses MKBv.15...

There's multiple versions of each disc in each region. So yes, there are still issues spread around. SlySoft is working on it but there is no ETA that I've seen as to when it'll be fixed. A lot of discs work, but, certainly not all at this point.

[x400]

i can't remove the region coding from avatar

i use region code remover 2.5 it says its removed but its still locked

[SamuriHL]

AnyDVD 6.6.3.8 beta has been released. It can handle the following:


Note regarding Avatar BD: This version will work with both US versions of the disc (RED_BIRD_2D_WW) and the UK "RED_BIRD_2D_WW" version of the disc.
It will work with the European "RED_BIRD_2D_F3" version of the disc (e.g., France, Germany, Switzerland, ...)
It will work with the European "RED_BIRD_2D_F2" version of the disc (e.g., Poland, Italy, Spain, ...)
It will work with the Japanese "RED_BIRD_2D_F6" version of the disc.

It will *not* work with other "RED_BIRD_2D_F6" versions (China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, ...). An updated AnyDVD version for these regions will be available soon.
It will *not* work with other "RED_BIRD_2D_WW" versions (South America). An updated AnyDVD version for these regions will be available soon.



As always you can find the latest beta on the SlySoft forum.

[setarip_old]

I believe that what we are seeing with this release is the beginning of an extremely difficult phase for the codebreakers at DVDFab, MakeMKV, and AnyDVDHD.

If, in fact, Rovi (formerly Macrovision) is able to readily create an essentially unlimited number (up to the point that it is, perhaps, not economically feasible to have so many different pressings) of variations and/or permutations of BD+ for a single new BluRay release, manual hacking of them in a timely manner will become infeasible.

It will be both interesting and exciting to see what types of remedies our three favorite backup providers (plus any future arrivals) come up with in the way of what I believe will be either a partially or fully automated method of resolving future versions of BD+ - perhaps finding an inherent, exploitable weakness in Java, or perhaps some kind of personalized for each customer online trace and resolve...

Whatever it proves to be, the dueling match has just gone into high gear - Parry! Thrust!

[SamuriHL]

I'm not even going to try to speculate on this one. Whatever the case may be, Avatar proved to be a uniquely special challenge for all involved. That includes player mfg's, as well, unfortunately. I guess we'll just sit back and enjoy the ride. :D

[Mike Chen]

For the record, the latest version of MakeMKV can handle all 9 avatar versions; it took exactly one week to publish update. At least three updates in BD+ loader code were targeting MakeMKV BD+ engine.

[SamuriHL]

AnyDVD 6.6.4.1 can now handle all versions, as well. What a "fun" disc for everyone! :)

[JimmyBarnes]

I believe that what we are seeing with this release is the beginning of an extremely difficult phase for the codebreakers at DVDFab, MakeMKV, and AnyDVDHD.

If, in fact, Rovi (formerly Macrovision) is able to readily create an essentially unlimited number (up to the point that it is, perhaps, not economically feasible to have so many different pressings) of variations and/or permutations of BD+ for a single new BluRay release, manual hacking of them in a timely manner will become infeasible.


If Rovi did as you say, how would manufacturers of commercial BD hardware players cope?

[SamuriHL]

If Rovi did as you say, how would manufacturers of commercial BD hardware players cope?

By having a complete BD+ implementation. The commercial players have the spec. However, even they are forced to adapt from time to time. You see this with firmware updates or in the case of software players, software updates. TMT3, for example, required an update for Avatar in order to handle it correctly. Numerous hardware players also required an update. That means that until an update is available and installed, a customer will not be able to play their legally purchased or rented disc. In the case of rentals that have time periods associated with them (i.e. it costs you more the longer you have it) I would personally be extremely upset if my player wasn't able to play it. That's off topic, though. In any case, BD+ is able to change and the commercial players have the advantage of being able to lean on Rovi when things don't work to get their players fixed. SlySoft, DVDFab, and MakeMKV do not have such a luxury.

[derbeDeus]

For the record, the latest version of MakeMKV can handle all 9 avatar versions; it took exactly one week to publish update. At least three updates in BD+ loader code were targeting MakeMKV BD+ engine.
In avatar.svq there are 6 SVQs, as reported by makemkv. You mention 9 versions... could you explain, please?

By having a complete BD+ implementation. The commercial players have the spec. However, even they are forced to adapt from time to time.
It seems that the BD+ specifications changes from time to time. So I would not use the word "complete";) Did anyone check the patents lately?

In the case of rentals that have time periods associated with them (i.e. it costs you more the longer you have it) I would personally be extremely upset if my player wasn't able to play it.
Good point. A friend of mine has an LG BD390 with an update from 23rd April 2010 (!) and could not play Avatar. Luckily the disc is bought, not rented, but anyway it was a very unpleasant situation.

[SamuriHL]

In avatar.svq there are 6 SVQs, as reported by makemkv. You mention 9 versions... could you explain, please?


I believe he meant there are 9 distinct versions of the Avatar disc out in the wild with slightly different forms of this particular BD+ protection. And a lot of them have the same disc label making it difficult to determine which version you own.


It seems that the BD+ specifications changes from time to time. So I would not use the word "complete";) Did anyone check the patents lately?


I'd say it certainly evolves. I don't have an intimate knowledge of BD+ myself so I couldn't really tell you, but, when I said "complete" it's more a case of "if it changes, the mfg's can go get the new spec and update their implementation".


Good point. A friend of mine has an LG BD390 with an update from 23rd April 2010 (!) and could not play Avatar. Luckily the disc is bought, not rented, but anyway it was a very unpleasant situation.

Yea, the lack of ability to play legit discs on your legit player is unacceptable to me. Those who purchased or rented Avatar and expected to simply be able to watch it were likely quite upset. I myself have 3 software players + AnyDVD HD and a PS3, so, I'm almost always able to play any disc at any time. However, I feel for those that have issues and it's simply not right IMO.

[derbeDeus]

I believe he meant there are 9 distinct versions of the Avatar disc out in the wild with slightly different forms of this particular BD+ protection. And a lot of them have the same disc label making it difficult to determine which version you own.
I'm quite sure Mike Chen does not tell the difference by looking at the label. ;) There are DISCIDs and BD+ ids and lots of other means to differentiate discs.


I'd say it certainly evolves. I don't have an intimate knowledge of BD+ myself so I couldn't really tell you, but, when I said "complete" it's more a case of "if it changes, the mfg's can go get the new spec and update their implementation".
I'm quite sure it is not easy to update even for player makers. Otherwise they'd have a better response for such widely expected discs as Avatar. I can't believe the amount of players that didn't work on release day! On PC 2/3 worked, but then again, on PC you have solutions...


Yea, the lack of ability to play legit discs on your legit player is unacceptable to me. Those who purchased or rented Avatar and expected to simply be able to watch it were likely quite upset. I myself have 3 software players + AnyDVD HD and a PS3, so, I'm almost always able to play any disc at any time. However, I feel for those that have issues and it's simply not right IMO.
Yeah, not to mention that the release was a movie-only one, no extras no nothing, Fox planning to re-release a 2D with extras and a 3D. I expect the same shameless game to repeat.
Speaking of players, PS3 is one of the best protected blu-ray players, so I would expect to play any disc with a decently not-2-old fw.

[SamuriHL]

I'm quite sure Mike Chen does not tell the difference by looking at the label. ;) There are DISCIDs and BD+ ids and lots of other means to differentiate discs.


LOL! I'm sure. :) I just meant that the average person really has no idea what variant of this annoying protection they have. I would expect Mike, Fengtao, and the SlyGods to know the difference. :D


I'm quite sure it is not easy to update even for player makers. Otherwise they'd have a better response for such widely expected discs as Avatar. I can't believe the amount of players that didn't work on release day! On PC 2/3 worked, but then again, on PC you have solutions...


Yea, I didn't mean to suggest it was easy for them. First they have to know about it, and in many cases the mfg's themselves get blindsided by it. I know this happened in at least one case for this disc. Meaning until they get complaints, they aren't even aware there's a problem. That seems like a communication break down to me. Clearly the player mfg's should be notified weeks, if not months in advance so they can plan for the update and get it out in a more timely manner. You don't see the PS3 having these issues, as that's the gold standard on which almost every disc is tested.


Yeah, not to mention that the release was a movie-only one, no extras no nothing, Fox planning to re-release a 2D with extras and a 3D. I expect the same shameless game to repeat.
Speaking of players, PS3 is one of the best protected blu-ray players, so I would expect to play any disc with a decently not-2-old fw.

Yup. The PS3 is the gold standard and why I bought one when I did. I've actually, to my recollection, not had any problems with any disc on the PS3. It's my go to player for when I have issues on the PC.

[setarip_old]

@derbeDeus

Hi! In avatar.svq there are 6 SVQs, as reported by makemkv. You mention 9 versions... could you explain, please?

Mike also said: At least three updates in BD+ loader code were targeting MakeMKV BD+ engine.I believe that these items required modification of a part of the primary "MakeMKV" program, rather than a simple addition to the SVQ...