Motion Based Curve Mod. and Symetric settings

[MaNguS]

hey guys i was wondering what are some good settings for a 98min movie, with high bitrate of 910,low of 350.. i was using res of 576x240 and temp. smoother of 3..i tried using motion based curve modulation of 0 and symetric of 15 but there were still some blocks on high motion scenes.. i also tried motion based curve modulation of 25-30 and symetric of 20 or 10... what am i doing wrong because i have seen the matrix a group release of 2hr5mins come out great at high action scenes and no blocks... i dont know why im still getting them... i also use antishit settings of 16,0,0, i tried none, and tried antifreeze.. im stuck guys please help me... i am doin the movie The Lost Boys.. thx later

[praying mantis]

personally i dont use motion based curve modulation. i leave it at 0, and aim for 20-25% Symmetric Curve Compression for 1cd backups, and 10-15% for 2 cd's.

i sometimes use the calc button (curve compression just to see how far out my settings may be. ie if i press calc and it gives me -50% or 75% then i play around with my resolution, compression levels and bitrate until i can get it to arrive close to my aim. (note the calc button will work more accurately if you have your crosspoint set correctly ie 230-280 for 1cd and 360-460 for 2 cds)

i believe doom also suggests enabling bitrate reservoir modulation for 1cd rips, but if this is enabled, motion based curve modulation should zero.

i also found i was producing some blocky scenes if my motion based DLL switch were both left at 300, so i tried reducing the FM switch to 250, and LM at 300.

6 times out of 10 i achieve my desired quality on my first attempt, but if not i just run the 2nd pass again after fooling with the above settings, and get some damn fine results.

hope this helps

[LotionBoy]

Try Motion Based Curve modulation at about 25 or thirty and then asymetirc of like 22,18 (if you're losing quality on the high-motion scenes. remember that this is going to make the mid-range scenes look worse). bitrate modulation is unnecessary and outmoded with MBCM. Try boosting the Low Pass up to something like 2000, that might help, as 910 just seems way to low to me. Besides that, how did you choose your resolution?

LotionBoy

[MaNguS]

Lotion boy i chose my resolution because 10 thing i hate about u is 1.85 ratio and that would be 576x304 and i did the resizing and cropping in nandub.. i went by what praying mantis said and am still getting blocky scenes.. i am using the temporal smoother but dont know whats goin on.. i have bitrate of 910 and low or 400 and high pass of 270 and low of 2500 or maybe vice versa i forget...i am also having problems when i fast forward to a certain part of the movie or wherever in the movie the audio is not in sync with the movie.. i chose a lower resolution to possibly get rid of the blocks but the motion at all times isnt that good... i dont know whats up.. i lowered fm dll to 250 and left lm dll at 300 .. i tried everything praying mantis said... maybe i am missing something.. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated... thanks guys later

[praying mantis]

sorry....i'm no expert. i was just reffering you to methods that worked for me.
i am assuming you are doing 2 passes.
i have my low pass set at 6000 kbps and 270 for high. since no avi is generated on the first pass this does not create a large avi.
The bitrate is variable on the movie length as i use a calculator, and i dont worry about setting this until the 2nd pass, but generally it is between 700 and 1000 for 1 cd rips and 1300+ for 2 cds.
i have resolution around 640x384 (around). i visually find the right resolution for each movie.
i also have crispness modulation set at 30%

maybe try using the default_1stpass settings which you can find in your nandub plugins folder. just load processing settings and find the file that says 'default 1st pass'

what compression settings do you use?
are any of the hacks activated? (KF Boost and Freeze)

i have the lost boys on dvd. i might give it a try on the weekend. if it works ok i will post my settings.

[LotionBoy]

Magnus, you say you're ripping Lost Boys or 10 Things I hate about you? I ripped Ten Things a while ago and don't remember having any problems with it. Bitrate was 987. Resolution was 576x256 (which is probably slightly off. That was before GKnot cropped movies and before I actually did the math right :-). Audio was VBR-MP3. If you can tell me what scenes/frames you are having trouble with, I can check my copy and tell you if I had the same problem. If I didn't have the problem, I'll try to find my settings, but no promises.

LotionBoy

[MaNguS]

Lotion Boy if u can please try to find those settings... i am using 910 bitrate, 400 min bitrate and resolution of 576x304, how did u get 256?? can u help me man? also im doin 10 things i hate about you now mantis...i have kf boost at 5... when i load the default 1 pass settings they are all really high which i dont think will make it a 1 cd rip... i am confused about how these groups get great quality rips with lower bitrates... there must be something goin on with the settings... i finally the other day got Lost Boys to look group release quality but now 10things is annoying me... hope u guys can help.. thx

[praying mantis]

setting low pass to 6000 has bever pushed my 1 cd rips to 2 cds.
the bitrate and compression settings can control this.

the higher the bitrate the bigger the file!
the lower the compression settings the bigger the file!


anyways i think i will leave this to lotionboy.

too many cooks spoil the broth!!!!

good luck

[LotionBoy]

Well, I can't find the settings, I don't think I saved those. grr. But I will try to recreate them for you. (PS, do tell me what frames you are having problems with so I can make sure my rip is okay in those spots). Oh, and I did say my resolution was probably off because I wasn't doing the math completely right back then. Still very watchable.

Bitrate = No idea. But probably around whatever you are using. I used VBR 100kb/s audio (this was before the days of the --alt preset, so I was using a custom Lame command line.), so I assume the math is easy to do from there.

Keyframe interval = 12. I just like 12 :-)
Min. Bitrate: 300. I use 300 for most 1 CD rips and 450 for most 2CD rips.
Internal SCD: 100. Disabled.
Space KF: 24. always worked fine so I see no reason to change it.

Antishit on: setting 16. Min quality = 1. Motion Mod = 0.

Curve Tab:

Motion based curve modulation. Now I did this encode before Motion based curve modulation, so I used bit reservoir modulation. It is probably better to use MBCM of 30 and leave bit reservoir modulation off.

Compression. Used a crosspoint of 280 and hit the calc button.

Luma on and set to the default settings.

End Credits = 150. I never go above this for 1CD.

High Pass: 300. I always set this to the min. bitrate as it seems to be more accurate in terms of file size.

Low-Pass: probably 1200 or 1600. I usually use one or the other for 1CD unless I suspect there is going to be problems. Then I'll go to 2500. But I don't think this movie gave me that sort of trouble.

Bitrate redistribution: proportional.

Smoother = 3 or 4.

Motion Tab:
Span and sensitivity to the default. Both sliders at 300
Crispness to 25 or 30.
bit reservoir modulation: I used this for my encode, but MBCM is probably better, so I'd use that for your encode.

Gauge: enable correction on. modulated on.
min = 30
start = 40
Max = 70
No boost.

Compression level: 2 to 7, probably. maybe 2 to 8
Keyframe at 2 to 31.

That's most likely how I did it. You can try a light smoother on it to make it more compressible, that is what most 'pro' groups do (although I've seen lots of really shitty 'pro' rips). I know there are people who hate this, but in a lot of cases, I don't mind the effect that filters have and think they actually make the video look better (especially on 1CD). You can try a light temporal smoother or a light spatial smoother, or both. I'd apply the filters in VDub, not avisynth, because it is much easier to tweak filter settings in VDub to make sure the result is not to extreme.

If you got any more questions feel free to ask.

LotionBoy

[Ripe73]

HI!
I encoded Lost boys 640*256 cropped and resized with GKnot so must be right

[FreierGeist]

LotionBoy, wich one you preffer: temporal smoother, spatial smoother or smart smoother?
and what is a "light" setting for one of those?

thanks
[]s

[LotionBoy]

Well, temporal smoothers seem to a decent job of killing noise without hurting detail too much, but I have not seen huge compression differences with temporal smoothing. I've gotten much better compression with spatial smoothers (smart smoother is a spatial smoother, as is 2D Cleaner), but they seem to kill detail and noise. I can't (and won't) give you settings because they are different for every source. In almost every case (assuming a clean source. A Bad source is a completely different issue), less filtering is better, because your video is going to look more like the original. So always err on the side of less filtering. When I encoded Sleepy Hollow, I used a spatial smoother, because this made the Fog less sharp, making it encode much better. I set the strength by finding a scene that had Casper Van Dien in a close-up. Then I smoothed to the point where I could still see his stubble clearly. This gave me a nice indication of the effect of the smoother that made it easy to clearly set the level. Find a shot that is going to do that for you. Once you set what you think is a good level, use the playback output setting in Nandub to watch the filtered video and make sure it doesn't look too blurry. Hope that helps

LotionBoy

[FreierGeist]

thanks very much!
it helped a lot!
:):)
i'll begin my experiences with these filters!

[]s