AVCHD lossless editing (inserting transitions)

[bloodem]

Does anyone know which program I could use to insert transitions in AVCHD clips WITHOUT having to reincode the whole video stream, only the transition part? I've tried various programs including Adobe Premiere CS4, Corel Video Studio X3, Pinnacle, and many many more. None of these are able to do that. What I want to do is insert transitions without any quality loss and then load the video in MeGUI with a deinterlace script such as TempGaussMC. Any idea? Thanks!

[audyovydeo]

Does anyone know which program I could use to insert transitions in AVCHD clips WITHOUT having to reincode the whole video stream, only the transition part? I've tried various programs including Adobe Premiere CS4, Corel Video Studio X3, Pinnacle, and many many more. None of these are able to do that. What I want to do is insert transitions without any quality loss and then load the video in MeGUI with a deinterlace script such as TempGaussMC. Any idea? Thanks!

I have no direct answer to your question, but since you mention deinterlacing, be aware that :
- it should come before any editing (transitions included)
- it implies re-encoding your video anyway

cheers
a/v

[PatchWorKs]

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/images/boxshots/prod/vegaspro_r.jpg (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro) :helpful:

[bloodem]

@audyovydeo: Well, with DV, inserting transitions before deinterlacing worked like a charm. But say I would do that... the question remains: how to insert transitions after deinterlacing and converting to x264? I couldn't find any software to do that. Or is there some way to deinterlace and convert into some kind of raw stream which can then be edited without loss by one of the editing programs?

@PatchWorks: The first program I tried was Vegas Pro 9... Total fail!

[Inspector.Gadget]

Deinterlace first. TempGaussMC is a very slow, very high quality filter, so you want to use it only ONCE. What I would do is this:

1) Load the source in Avisynth using DGAVCIndex/DGAVCDec and filter it with only TempGaussMC and (after that) any cropping. Encode to a lossless intermediate file using, say, HuffYUV. It is better to have this intermediate file on another physical hard disk in preparation for the actual encoding pass.
2) Load the intermediate lossless AVI file in Avisynth using Haali's DirectShowSource2 and the audio using NicLPCMSource, NicAC3Source, etc. Make your cuts and joins in Avisynth using Trim() and UnAlignedSplice(). The output of this second script will be double-rate same-length progressive video output and same-length PCM audio data as modified by your cuts and joins. It is ready to pass to your choice of video and audio encoders.

[bloodem]

"It is ready to pass to your choice of video and audio encoders. "

Yeah but that's exactly the point, that's the part I'm having trouble with. The only thing I want to do is INSERT TRANSITIONS. And there isn't a sole program out there that can render the stream to a lossless format in order for me to convert it to X264.
So basically I deinterlace the video stream (I also use TempGaussMC). Cool! Then I save the file in a lossless format, or heck, even in uncompressed AVI. Cool! But then what? I want to open this lossless/uncompressed video in a video editor (Corel Video Studio, Cyberlink PowerDirector 8, Adobe Premiere Pro CS4, Pinnacle, and so on) add transitions, then save the file AGAIN without loss of quality and last but not least, open the file in MeGUI to encode it to x264. Any idea which of those programs is able to do that and what format should I use for the lossless file?

[poisondeathray]

"It is ready to pass to your choice of video and audio encoders. "

Yeah but that's exactly the point, that's the part I'm having trouble with. The only thing I want to do is INSERT TRANSITIONS. And there isn't a sole program out there that can render the stream to a lossless format in order for me to convert it to X264.
So basically I deinterlace the video stream (I also use TempGaussMC). Cool! Then I save the file in a lossless format, or heck, even in uncompressed AVI. Cool! But then what? I want to open this lossless/uncompressed video in a video editor (Corel Video Studio, Cyberlink PowerDirector 8, Adobe Premiere Pro CS4, Pinnacle, and so on) add transitions, then save the file AGAIN without loss of quality and last but not least, open the file in MeGUI to encode it to x264. Any idea which of those programs is able to do that and what format should I use for the lossless file?


They all can.

Examples of lossless codecs: UT video codec, huffyuv, FFV1, Lagarith, many , many more. You can even use uncompressed

With vegas you can use debugmode frameserver, and frameserve directly to MeGUI without the intermediate

Note there is a slight quality loss because you are doing YV12=>RGB=>YV12 colorspace conversion, but there are no lossess from compression if you use lossless compression or uncompressed. (All the editing programs you mentioned work in RGB colorspace)

If you did all your editing in avisynth as Inspector Gadget suggested above, it is possible to stay in YV12 colorspace. You can do simple transitions with the transall plugin and fadeio variants

[Inspector.Gadget]

Do your transitions in Avisynth. If you must have Premiere (which can open Avisynth scripts using a special plugin) or similar:

1) Load your AVCHD source in Avisynth, deinterlace/crop/resize as appropriate. Render this script to a HuffYUV-compressed AVI file (this adds little to processing time but will save you a ton of disc space).
2) Load the lossless AVI in Avisynth and open that script with Premiere or similar. Make your cuts and edits. Save that to whatever lossless format Premiere etc. can do. You must pick another lossless file (and preferably another physical drive), as obviously you don't want to overwrite your input! If there is no suitable lossless codec, very high bitrate MPEG-2 may suffice.
3) Load this second lossless file into an Avisynth script - by now your editing should be all done - and then pass the third and final AVS file to encoders of your choice.

Edit: Also what poisondeathray said.

[bloodem]

Thanks Guys! Looks like with your help I've finally done it. Lagarith + Sony Vegas Pro 9 was the winning combination. But I'll also try the way you suggested, Inspector.Gadget... to see what works for me best (encoding time/quality). Thanks again!