Software TBC

[jmac698]

Link updated.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162726

[Perepandel]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

jmac698, you're my hero!!

I wish I had a bit more free time and the knowledge to had helped somehow with this.

I haven't had time even to try to capture the full signal with the instructions given by you on the past weeks. That's a shame.

But I've never forget at all about this, so I came in to check if there were any news and voilà! You've already done it. Wow!

Maybe one day I can help in anything else. It would be great to get those compiles of the btwincap drivers usable in windows 7 64 bit, etc. But that seems difficult too. In the meantime, I'm trying to learning more about avisynth development.

Impressive results, jmac698!

Also I could try one day to compare the results of your script with those offered by the SVHS player with integrated TBC I'm using to make my captures now.

[markanini]

It would be great to get those compiles of the btwincap drivers usable in windows 7 64 bit, etc. But that seems difficult too.

http://pctuner.ru/page-al-btwdmdrv_signed.html

[jmac698]

I was just going to say that :)
Yes, good link.

[Perepandel]

http://pctuner.ru/page-al-btwdmdrv_signed.html

usable in windows 7 64 bit

I already knew that page.

I said it before: these drivers don't work in Windows 7 64 bit.

I found it about a couple of months ago and tried the driver by myself. I even wrote the (correct) .inf file for my AverMedia TvCapture 98. I have yet to be sure that WDM drivers can be used in Win 7 64 bit at all.

If you read the comments in the link you posted (I used Google Translate), you'll notice there is people reporting that it don't works.

[jmac698]

@per
Perhaps these can help
http://www.sevenforums.com/drivers/31303-leadtek-winfast-tv2000xp-rm-drivers.html

http://www.vistax64.com/drivers/184889-looking-bt848-chip-tv-cards-driver.html

http://www.sevenforums.com/attachments/drivers/88292d1280483625-leadtek-winfast-tv2000xp-rm-drivers-tv2000-xp-rm-drivers-win7-x64-.zip

[Perepandel]

Thanks for the links, jmac698, but believe me: I already tried that (besides my tv-card is an Avermedia, not a Leadtek).

I've spent 30 minutes reading carefully the entire thread in your 1st link, to ensure I wasn't missing anything new or that I didn't notice before, just to realize that it is one of the stupidest threads I've ever read on the Internet: they are installing the russian drivers, they don't work (the maximum success they get is getting the device with a yellow exclamation - that's exactly what I got, to be exact in the video module - the audio part showed no exclamation... but with a yellow exclamation no device will run in Windows)... then they run dScaler, which has an integrated driver and runs entirely by itself... and they think they've got the driver installed!!!

I can use my bt878 card in Win 7 64 bit alone with dScaler and no half-installed driver hack. That's the only way I've found to use in in Win7x64. I even have done my analog captures with it, and I'm almost fine with that. But that's not the point.

If the driver isn't installed, I cannot use any other program of my choice. Virtualdub, for instance, or whatever PVR you like. Nor can I use the bt878 tweaker and, so, I'm unable to test your TBC in my operating system.

Again, I installed WinXP in another partition and also last Ubuntu, so I have plenty software options to use my card :P. But again, that's not the point: the point is getting the card working in Win7x64 "for pleasure", if it is possible (and it should - the fact that dScaler works demonstrates it).

PS: I'm about to register at that forum just to make them realize the ugly truth abouth their "illusions" :P

[jmac698]

oh,
I read the solution to that in one of those links. win7 is blacklisting the driver, there's a procedure to fix that. Did you try the security catalog trick?
Also in the 2nd link someone reports it working.

[markanini]

Perepandel, your symptoms indicate that you are using the unsigned BT8xx driver which requires 'Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider' to work. A better solution is the the signed version that requires manual editing of an .ini file upon installation.

[NoX1911]

Can someone sum it up? What (hardware) requirements are exactly needed?
Most drivers are well cross referenced and clearly readable. Maybe its possible to get more cards in the boat.

[jmac698]

You should go here instead
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162832

cx and bt chip based cards so far.

[Perepandel]

oh,
I read the solution to that in one of those links. win7 is blacklisting the driver, there's a procedure to fix that. Did you try the security catalog trick?
Also in the 2nd link someone reports it working.

I found no need to try that because the message explaining that method is on the 1st page on the thread (there are 8), and there is an immediate reply from some user saying that it seems that card isn't bt878 based (well, it is Cx2388x, which we could call it a "cousing", but that don't mean the driver should be compatible "out of the box"), and then a reply from the original poster admiting that he was wrong and posted on the wrong thread, but that

However, users can still follow the same steps to circumvent blocked drivers for any hardware

Then in the remaining of the thread there are three or four reports of failure with that method and only of success, which a couple of users haven't been able to reproduce.

By the way, the user claiming success names the card as

TV2000 XP RM (I think RM)

which doesn't make me feel very confident about is claims...

I even doubt there are "blocked drivers" in the Win 7 x64 for the bt878 chip.

But yeah, I have yet to test this procedure by myself.

Perepandel, your symptoms indicate that you are using the unsigned BT8xx driver which requires 'Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider' to work. A better solution is the the signed version that requires manual editing of an .ini file upon installation.

Sorry to sound rude but again you're giving advance without having read the posts. I'M USING THE SIGNED VERSION. The link posted by jmac698 is for the signed version, so it makes no sense to assume I'm doing the opposite.

To be exact, I tried both versions, and months ago, when I discovered that page by myself.

Oh, and by the way, it's not ".ini" modification, but ".inf", and yeah, I also did it by myself, and I'm 99.99% sure I did it right, since I've been owning my card for so many years that I know well its parameters after configuring it for loads of tasks and programs.

Markanini, I've read in another thread that you've got success with this driver and Win 7 x64. For now, it's the 1st time I read any success report with it. Can you tell us, please, which program or programs are you using to capture/watch TV with your card? I need to confirm that you are using some other appart from dScaler, which works without the need for a driver.

[markanini]

My card is a Pinnacle PCTV Rave. It works as expected in VirtualVCR but I haven't really made much use of it. I remember some of the values the .inf file needed to be "padded out" to work properly even though there wasn't any such instruction in the readme specifically. If it still doesnt work maybe your card happens to be one those that wasn't well implemented into the original btwincap driver. There's plenty of 2nd hand bt8x8 cards out there if all else fails.

[Perepandel]

My card is a Pinnacle PCTV Rave. It works as expected in VirtualVCR but I haven't really made much use of it. I remember some of the values the .inf file needed to be "padded out" to work properly even though there wasn't any such instruction in the readme specifically. If it still doesnt work maybe your card happens to be one those that wasn't well implemented into the original btwincap driver. There's plenty of 2nd hand bt8x8 cards out there if all else fails.

My card is an Avermedia TvCapture 98. It was well supported in BTWincap 32; I've always used the driver succesfully in Windows XP 32 bit the card was detected during the install and it always went flawless; didn't have to patch or edit anything by hand.

[Ghitulescu]

Could you post a sample? I might look at it.

Got finally the DVD.

Now the sample -> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RW073OZ0

[markanini]

My card is an Avermedia TvCapture 98. It was well supported in BTWincap 32; I've always used the driver succesfully in Windows XP 32 bit the card was detected during the install and it always went flawless; didn't have to patch or edit anything by hand.

Try the unsigned version, enable test mode in Driver signature overrider. I've used this myself for months without issues.

[jmac698]

Just wanted to update this thread 4 years later because it comes up in searches for "software TBC". So hello internet! Yes a software TBC is fully possible and has been done in various proof of concepts by various individuals. Let me give you an overview of the concept.

First of all, you need access to the video signal in some type of raw form. There are two raw forms, the composite output from the laserdisc/VCR, or the RF signal from the optical pickup/ VCR head.

The next step is to digitize that signal. The two approaches most common so far, are special drivers for a CX or BT based capture card, or an oscilloscope. I've personally tried both methods, but the capture card had better specs than my digital oscilloscope. The special drivers required to use capture cards in this mode are very rare and experimental in windows, but much more developed in Linux, especially recently as there is a new hobby called Software Defined Radio, and people from that area are using the old video capture cards for their this new purpose, so that development work is indirectly helping the efforts of software TBC also.

The last step is simply software: understand the signal as video, and apply processing to improve it in various ways which are not well addressed by even the best VCRs/Laserdiscs/hardware TBCs. Now I can tell you the final conclusion here: the video doesn't look better than good analog equipment under ideal conditions. The real potential of software decoding is to avoid a) damages from poor analog electronics (not really an issue, if you just used better hardware) b) perfect TBC, less noise, less dropouts, this is the real need of restoration. And it's done (as proof of concept), and it works. What is needed now is to make this technology useable in the hands of the archivists.

So I say this is done, and here's the videos to prove it. First, this is what I used to consider the ultimate idea possible: pure software decoding of VHS, directly from the RF signal of the VCR head. This is as direct and raw as it gets, and due to all the decoding being in software, can extract the maximum theoretical quality ever possible. And the result is a bit disapointing, like I say it's not much better than a high-end VCR under ideal conditions - but bear in mind, this is a consistent level of quality, and could work even on currently "broken" tapes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0eLxQY6-RI
software decoding of raw RF signal from VCR head

And here is a perfectly software TBCd VHS video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPG2THCxODg
you can see that it's perfectly stable, as would be expected.

Now here is video decoded by a portable USB oscilloscope, which is convenient since no special drivers are needed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5UQBVi5Xac

If you're tired of seeing sample in grey, here is a fully colour sample:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEpt5nQwIaw
laserdisc decoded in a fairly advanced software. In this case, certain problems of ghosting, noise, dropout, and jitter are solved by using this technology.

I hope this overview gives you some idea of the potential of the technology/concept. Make no doubt however, software TBC is 100% possible, all the ideas you've had from hardware boxes and their poorly working is obsolete. Of course, this still needs to be demonstrated in a very clear form before people will realize it.