Correct settings for 16:9 anamorphic DVD?

[helplessandlost]

Please critique and let me know if I'm doing anything wrong :thanks:

NLE Sony Vegas 9C
Render output as:

Video: 29.970 fps, Project Frame Size Progressive
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.000

Cineform settings:

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9894/cineformsettings.jpg




Source file media info:

ideo
Format : CineForm HD
Codec ID : CFHD
Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
Duration : 26mn 4s
Bit rate : 106 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.711
Stream size : 19.4 GiB (99%)


AVISource("F:\MakPlaydenoiseTest\Makdenoised.avi",pixel_type="RGB32")
ConvertToYUY2()
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", clamp=false)
LanczosResize(656,448,0,1,1920,1078)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)
ConvertToYV12

HCEncoder Settigngs:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6460/hc1.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4445/hc2.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3747/hc3t.jpg

Everything else left at default except Fox1 for matrix


Mediainfo for HCencoded file:

Video
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 5mn 33s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 799 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.463
Stream size : 191 MiB (96%)
Writing library : |HCenc 0.23.0.0 - (c) 2004/2008|

This assuming that HCencode is better then TMPGenc 4 xpress which I also have but unsure of proper workflow

Thanks again!

[Guest]

[bump after forum move]

[osgZach]

No experience with HCencode, or working with a lot of anamorphic content + downsizing it. But TMPGenc Xpress 4 should be able to handle it as well if you're more comfortable with that. Although it can be slightly temperamental with AVS scripts, but it still reads them. (Also has a D2V parser). It's basic crop and resize options should do what you need as well I would think.

Following any generic "handling of anamorphic content" guide would work well with it.

[wonkey_monkey]

Funny, could've sworn I replied to this earlier...

Anyway:

AVISource("F:\MakPlaydenoiseTest\Makdenoised.avi",pixel_type="RGB32")
ConvertToYUY2()
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", clamp=false)
LanczosResize(656,448,0,1,1920,1078)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)
ConvertToYV12

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the resize/addborders - I'm pretty sure all you need for that is:

LanczosResize(704,480,0,1,1920,1078)

704px is DVD legal - the other 16 would only be nominal analogue blanking anyway - and that should give you the correct aspect ratio (DVD pixels are not square in either anamorphic 16:9 or 4:3).

David

[helplessandlost]

No experience with HCencode, or working with a lot of anamorphic content + downsizing it. But TMPGenc Xpress 4 should be able to handle it as well if you're more comfortable with that. Although it can be slightly temperamental with AVS scripts, but it still reads them. (Also has a D2V parser). It's basic crop and resize options should do what you need as well I would think.

Following any generic "handling of anamorphic content" guide would work well with it.

Thanks, haven't been able to get TMPGenc to work with .avs scripts and their help has been less then helpful :(

[helplessandlost]

Funny, could've sworn I replied to this earlier...

Anyway:



I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the resize/addborders - I'm pretty sure all you need for that is:

LanczosResize(704,480,0,1,1920,1078)

704px is DVD legal - the other 16 would only be nominal analogue blanking anyway - and that should give you the correct aspect ratio (DVD pixels are not square in either anamorphic 16:9 or 4:3).

David

Read that this would create an Anamorphic DVD and compensate for the Dead Space - it still fills the screen and the divisor is the about the same:


656/488 = 1.4642857142857142857142857142857
704/480= 1.4666666666666666666666666666667

But also why I'm asking if this is "right" :)

[osgZach]

re: TMPgenc what error is it throwing you on trying to load a .AVS ?

IT should stream it into the program and read it like an AVI afaik

[wonkey_monkey]

Read that this would create an Anamorphic DVD and compensate for the Dead Space - it still fills the screen and the divisor is the about the same:

Meh... I assume by "dead space" you mean overscan. It's up to you of course, but the overscan areas are meant not to be seen, or at least to be discardable. If you were to watch the original HD footage, followed by the DVD made with cropping/borders, on the same screen, you would/might/should see more on the DVD (at slightly reduced resolution). Personally I'd say that wasn't right.

David

[poisondeathray]

Did you use a bitrate calculator or did you arbitrarily choose 5Mbps avg? If possible, I would split the DVD to 2 DVD-5's or 1 DVD-9 in order to bump up the bitrate a bit

[helplessandlost]

re: TMPgenc what error is it throwing you on trying to load a .AVS ?

IT should stream it into the program and read it like an AVI afaik

Hrm, well it used to throw an error, but I tried it tonight to see the error and now it works :devil:

I did get rid of some erroring codecs (adobe type not sure where I got them) so maybe that was the issue there.

[helplessandlost]

Meh... I assume by "dead space" you mean overscan. It's up to you of course, but the overscan areas are meant not to be seen, or at least to be discardable. If you were to watch the original HD footage, followed by the DVD made with cropping/borders, on the same screen, you would/might/should see more on the DVD (at slightly reduced resolution). Personally I'd say that wasn't right.

David


Can't say that I saw a difference...

Would you mind trying it with your own footage to see if you see the difference? Or you could use http://www.sendspace.com/file/aka586 which is a chunk of my footage...

[helplessandlost]

Did you use a bitrate calculator or did you arbitrarily choose 5Mbps avg? If possible, I would split the DVD to 2 DVD-5's or 1 DVD-9 in order to bump up the bitrate a bit

Hi Poison...

I took that again from an example that I saw for "proper" output. I did not use a calculator....

[helplessandlost]

Here also is one of my biggest questions:

ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", clamp=false)

Reading the info on this, this would allow full colors 0-255 but my understanding is DVD which is YUY2 only allows 16-235 so I assume this is also an incorrect setting?

I am compensating for this in Vegas before I output though using AAVColorlab which has a "preset" to set 16-235...

is that enough?

[manono]

this would allow full colors 0-255 but my understanding is DVD which is YUY2 only allows 16-235 so I assume this is also an incorrect setting?
Clamp=False is not only not an incorrect setting in my opinion, but an important one to have in there. I don't know where you got the script, but the original script writer was correct to use that Clamp=False setting. I think.

Nor should you have, in my opinion, clipped your video to 16-235 in Vegas. But if it's too late already, I suppose you can leave off the clamp setting in the ColorMatrix filter.
I took that again from an example that I saw for "proper" output.
Assuming you're encoding for a specific size (like to fill a DVD5), then you use a bitrate calc to choose the correct bitrate for the job. If you don't care about the final size, you may as well do a CQ encode.

[helplessandlost]

Clamp=False is not only not an incorrect setting in my opinion, but an important one to have in there. I don't know where you got the script, but the original script writer was correct to use that Clamp=False setting. I think.

Nor should you have, in my opinion, clipped your video to 16-235 in Vegas. But if it's too late already, I suppose you can leave off the clamp setting in the ColorMatrix filter.

Assuming you're encoding for a specific size (like to fill a DVD5), then you use a bitrate calc to choose the correct bitrate for the job. If you don't care about the final size, you may as well do a CQ encode.


I got the script off of the Adobe forums...

Not too late this is a test :) and I misspoke myself I didn't clip the video to 16-235 but rather spread it out to 0-255...

Convert to Studio RGB - Both: This takes black from RGB input value 16 and white from 235. It’s quite often the case that video imported into Vegas looks washed out, and Video Scopes indicate that RGB values stay between 16 and 235. In that case, use this option to stretch the range to the full 0-255.

Above taken from AAV Color lab manual.

[wonkey_monkey]

Can't say that I saw a difference...

Would you mind trying it with your own footage to see if you see the difference? Or you could use http://www.sendspace.com/file/aka586 which is a chunk of my footage...

How are you playing the two clips? No offence, but I'm not going to download 96mb and burn a DVD ;)

David

[2Bdecided]

You resize...

spline36resize(704,480)

...and you change the colour space if you really want to...

ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", clamp=false)

That's it! (Assuming the source really is 30p. Are you sure? You need to handle interlacing if it's not).


This...LanczosResize(656,448,0,1,1920,1078)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)...is nonsense. Making it smaller than it should be and adding borders really is nonsense, and cropping to 1078 before resizing is probably pointless too.

Cheers,
David.

[helplessandlost]

How are you playing the two clips? No offence, but I'm not going to download 96mb and burn a DVD ;)

David

None taken and like you said burning a DVD and then watching it on several TV's...

[helplessandlost]

You resize...

spline36resize(704,480)

...and you change the colour space if you really want to...

ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", clamp=false)

That's it! (Assuming the source really is 30p. Are you sure? You need to handle interlacing if it's not).


This...LanczosResize(656,448,0,1,1920,1078)
AddBorders(32,16,32,16)...is nonsense. Making it smaller than it should be and adding borders really is nonsense, and cropping to 1078 before resizing is probably pointless too.

Cheers,
David.


Thanks, yes I'm certain it's 30p....

One thing about making it smaller and made me think today - you see this all the time with broadcast in fact I was watching several commercials this morning where they sized it to the center of the screen with very large borders - I assume to be sure that you saw the entire picture without losing some in the overscan area. I believe that the script designer's intentions are the same.

[wonkey_monkey]

I was watching several commercials this morning where they sized it to the center of the screen with very large borders - I assume to be sure that you saw the entire picture without losing some in the overscan area.

I've never seen that, but it's more likely to be down to some dodgy bodging to accommodate different aspect ratios and the like. Any properly formatted video, commercials included, should always allow for overscan.

Unless there is some vitally important detail within the outer 5% of the picture (and there should never be), you shouldn't add borders.

and cropping to 1078 before resizing is probably pointless too.

Was there a special reason for that? Garbage lines at top and bottom, I assumed.

David

[helplessandlost]

I've never seen that, but it's more likely to be down to some dodgy bodging to accommodate different aspect ratios and the like. Any properly formatted video, commercials included, should always allow for overscan.

Unless there is some vitally important detail within the outer 5% of the picture (and there should never be), you shouldn't add borders.



Was there a special reason for that? Garbage lines at top and bottom, I assumed.

David

Other then reading from a script elsewhere no...