How can I clean this up?

[helplessandlost]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD2uKFXCHl4

Please look at this video, I'm seeing this "noise" "blocking" "dot crawl" (not sure what to call it) on many of my HD2SD conversions and not sure how to correct it.

The video in HD is not this bad but when I convert it with HD2SD it gets like this.

What filterss etc can I use to correct it?

Thanks!

[Vitaliy Gorbatenko]

:search: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134078

[Nightshiver]

A youtube video is of no help. Post an unprocessed sample for us to look at.

[helplessandlost]

Thanks more then happy to post a sample - can you recommend somewhere that I can do so?

The downconverted sample is 168mb

P.S. this is also progressive scan footage not interlaced

Thanks again!

[manono]

Cut it because no one need the entire 168 MB. 40-50 MB should be plenty to get an idea of what to do. Upload to SendSpace or MediaFire and post the link.

[helplessandlost]

Here is the download link 10sec at 90mb

http://www.sendspace.com/file/k2j6t4

Here is the script I used to feed through Virtualdub which I then saved out with LAGS RGB


SetMTMode(2,0)
MPEG2Source("F:\Whatis.d2v")
hd2sd(interlaced=false, OutputColorSpace="YUY2")


Log from DGindex(original 1min clip)

Stream Type: Elementary
Profile: high@high
Frame Size: 1920x1080
Display Size: 1920x1080
Aspect Ratio: 1:1 [1]
Frame Rate: 29.970030 fps
Video Type: NTSC
Frame Type: Progressive
Coding Type: B
Colorimetry: BT.470-2 B,G
Frame Structure: Frame
Field Order:
Coded Number: 1011
Playback Number: 2
Frame Repeats: 0
Field Repeats: 0
VOB ID:
Cell ID:
Bitrate:
Bitrate (Avg):
Bitrate (Max):
Timestamp:
Elapsed: 0:00:01
Remain: FINISH
FPS:
Info:

.d2v file info (I didn't change any default settings in DGIndex)


DGIndexProjectFile16
1
F:\Whatis.m2v

Stream_Type=0
MPEG_Type=2
iDCT_Algorithm=6
YUVRGB_Scale=1
Luminance_Filter=0,0
Clipping=0,0,0,0
Aspect_Ratio=1:1
Picture_Size=1920x1080
Field_Operation=0
Frame_Rate=29970 (30000/1001)
Location=0,0,0,2833b

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FINISHED 100.00% VIDEO


P.S I also usually do my final .m2v for DVD with TMPGenc xpress 4.0 so any assitance there would also be appreciated as well as Vimeo/YouTube settings for the same

:thanks:

[manono]

The source is Hi-Def, but I don't see the resize in the script. I think it would probably be best to use a temporal cleaner like FFT3DFilter or some such on it, but before the downsize. It may take longer to do, but the output quality should be better. Also, since most AviSynth filters don't work in RGB, that's another reason not to do it on the Lagarith AVI, because 2 more colorspace conversions will have to be done.

Does this HD2SD filter (which I've never heard of) also take care of the colorimetry conversion from Rec.709 to Rec.601?

But others know much more about filtering this type of source than I do.

[helplessandlost]

Thanks, I'm not tied to this method I'm willing to try anything that will give me the best results...

I originally found this script here: http://www.precomposed.com/blog/2009/07/hd-to-sd-dvd-best-methods/

[helplessandlost]

Also for more information,

NLE=Sony Vegas 9c
Outputing as Cineform .AVI Progressive, High HD, Progressive

General
Complete name : F:\MakPlayWorking\MakPlayorig.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 24.0 GiB
Duration : 26mn 4s
Overall bit rate : 132 Mbps
TCOD : 0
TCDO : 15645630000

Video
Format : CineForm HD
Codec ID : CFHD
Codec ID/Info : CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)
Duration : 26mn 4s
Bit rate : 10.6 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.171
Stream size : 1.94 GiB (8%)

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Unsigned
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 2mn 14s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 24.6 MiB (0%)
Interleave, duration : 33 ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 33 ms

[helplessandlost]

Here also is a clip of the original file converted with Cineform from AVCHD using 709 High HD Square pixels

http://www.sendspace.com/file/aka586


And same clip run through Vegas and saved as the same as above

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6hoe0y

Both ~93MB as well....

Thanks for all help!

[poisondeathray]

Are you seeing the noise artifacts on the file you upload to youtube? I think it's youtube causing it , or whatever you are encoding to is causing it.

There is a bit of grain/noise that dances about, but that's normal for consumer level cameras, and it's there on the HD file as well. You could denoise it with some filters if it bothers you

I tried the hd2sd script on your cineform file, and it looks fine.

Your cineform file is progressive 30p. hd2sd was developed for interlaced resizing (deinterlace=>resize=>reinterlace)

There is no special treatment for progressive resizing (you can do a straight resize), except for maybe color coefficients (rec.601)

[helplessandlost]

I'm using TMPGENC 4.0 Xpress to encode for you tube and DVD and see some of this on either one...

And yes I would like to get rid of the noise - although this wasn't a consumer camera actually a Pany HMC-150 but I believe I used the wrong scene file which caused some of that - so suggestions on filters for that would be helpful.

As for TMPGenc any help there would be great as well as their defaults - none for web - aren't very good.

[poisondeathray]

You will see more grain with lower light shooting, although HMC150 is quite sensitive. I was referring to very high bitrate acquisition with larger 2/3 sensors and using something like HDCAM-SR or nanoflash or kipro, or uncompressed for compression. Otherwise you will see a bit of grain in the native hd video. This is also the result of the acquisition codec (HMC150 only shoots at 21Mb/s AVCHD) and smaller sensors

You can do a light denoise with any of dozens of avisynth filters, just do a simple search. Some are stronger than others, and you can adjust the strength to your tastes

This isn't an all inclusive list, but scroll down
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/External_filters

Just to be clear are we talking about the same thing in regards to the noise? Because I see it on the HD cineform file as well. And your earlier comments: "The video in HD is not this bad but when I convert it with HD2SD it gets like this" are confusing. Don't judge the quality by youtube, because it will re-encode using a low bitrate, and the grain (which requires more bitrate to encode) will look even worse.

As for TMPGEnc, it's not related to avisynth , so maybe start a thread in the appropriate section

[helplessandlost]

Understood about YouTube and the lower bit rates...

I think we are talking about the same thing and it's the "artifacting" that is evident in the you tube video as well as an increase in the noise plus "artifacting" in DVD that I see (but sadly can't show easily) but your beginning to make me think it's more of my encoding... I assume though that the "Cleanest" file I can feed to my encoder the better encode I'm going to get.

[poisondeathray]

Yes this is true, a light denoise and a "clean" file fed to the encoder will lower your bitrate requirements and help compressibility.

You can check the DVD section for more tips, but usually you want to maximzie the legal DVD MPEG2 video bitrate (if your running time is too long, split it up to several DVD5's or use DVD9)

Also for your SD youtube uploads, you might consier using 1:1 pixel and 16:9 AR . The 720x480 that the script uses is meant for DVD and anamorphic display (non square pixels). You can see the pillarboxing on the youtube SD display because of this

[helplessandlost]

Thanks, should the denoiser be done before or after the down convert? Same with any sharpening?

[poisondeathray]

In general, you would denoise first in the chain of processing, otherwise the noise/grain artifacts will be resized and/or sharpened

[helplessandlost]

Thanks you've given me a lot to think about, hopefully you can answer one more question:

Display aspect ratio : 16:9 from my media info above, I've been setting all my project properties (Vegas, TMPG etc) to Square Pixels - is this correct or incorrect?

This is just a straight Cineform encode from my .mts files...

Would it be better to run it through VDub with denoising and then outputing it to Cineform Codec with Square pixels? Leave it at 16.9 or what?

If running it through VDUB is the best choice can you recommend a script?

Sorry for all the questions but for a Noob this stuff is difficult to grasp and I understand there are different forums for different questions but it's hard when you don't know where your question really hits.

[poisondeathray]

Display aspect ratio : 16:9 from my media info above, I've been setting all my project properties (Vegas, TMPG etc) to Square Pixels - is this correct or incorrect?


1920x1080 is square pixel (1:1 PAR) , and 16:9 Display Aspect Ratio

16/9 = 1920/1080 x 1/1

When you did the resize, you resized to 720x480 square pixel, which has a DAR of 1.5 (youtube assumes square pixel , as do most flash streaming sites)

For the DVD, the 720x480 is correct and legal frame size, but the pixels are not square. The 16:9 flag means 32:27 pixels w:h

Instead you might use 848x480 or 704x400 or something for youtube (i forget what the recommended format is for youtube sd) - these are mod16 and not quite, but close to 1.778 DAR


This is just a straight Cineform encode from my .mts files...

Would it be better to run it through VDub with denoising and then outputing it to Cineform Codec with Square pixels? Leave it at 16.9 or what?

If running it through VDUB is the best choice can you recommend a script?


Assuming you're using cineform for the purpose of editing in vegas , it might be easier/faster to use a script to convert your native avchd files with a denoise filter to cineform, then import that into vegas

If your files are all 30p (or 30000/1001 or about 29.97 fps) , then you don't need hd2sd script. The only time special treatment is required is for interlaced resizing. (and you might want to use rec.601)

As an illustrative example, I used FFT3DFilter (but you can use any other and adjust the strength as you desire)
e.g.


DirectShowSource("file.mts")
FFT3DFilter(sigma=1.5)


Then open that .avs in vdub, and use that to encode to cineform (which will now be a denoised 1920x1080p30 cineform intermediate) , which you could import into vegas. This assumes you have directshow filters working (you probably need haali media splitter, ffdshow installed)

I strongly suggest you expermient with different denoise filters, because some will destroy detail, some are specific and suitable for certain types of noise etc....

[helplessandlost]

Hrm...

Tried this,

installed haali media splitter, ffdshow but when I try to run the .avs in VDub (sorry they are m2ts files)

Avisynth open failure:
Evaluate System exception - Access Violation - no number just that.

When I try to use GSpot I get this:


Warning: DirectShow crashed while attempting to render this file.

This is usually due to damaged, misconfigured, conflicting, or poorly written codec drivers. It is possible, perhaps even likely, that other media players will crash when they attempt to play this file as well, as most of them will also use DirectShow. GSpot was able to intercept the crash, and has attempted to identify the codec or filter involved; uninstalling or reinstalling this codec or filter may solve the problem.

The codec was tentatively identified as:

C:\Program Files (x86)\CyberLink\PowerDVD\VideoFilter\CL264dec.ax

[poisondeathray]

You will have to get your directshow filters in order to be able to use directshowsource() as a source filter in avisynth. I don't think newer cyberlink .dll's can be run outside of their program

If you render the file in graphstudio it will show you the filter graph and whether or not pins connect to filters. You could use tools like radlight filter manager to raise or lower the merit of various filters , in this case lower cyberlink, and raise ffdshow

Another option is to use ffms2 as a source filter. You have to download the package and read the bundled instructions. Sometimes it gets the fps wrong, so double check , you can use info() at the end of the script, comment it out (#) if you don't need it. I commented them all out in this example. If you want audio included in the script (instead of doing it separately, use atrack=-1) , this is explained in the documentation

FFMpegSource2("file.m2ts",atrack=-1)
#AssumeFPS(30000,1001)
#Some denoiser e.g. FFT3DFilter()
#Info()



If your source is progressive, another option is to use DGAVCIndex. There are instructions bundled. Beware not to use with interlaced content.

AVCSource("file.dga")
#Some denoiser

[helplessandlost]

Thanks, how about DGindexNV? I was able to get it to open the file with

LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Thomas\Downloads\dgdecnv200b3\DGDecodeNV.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\NicAudio.dll")



video=DGSource("f:\TESTING\MakPlaydgindex.dga")
audio=NicAC3Source("f:\TESTING\MakPlaydgindex PID 1100 2_0ch 48KHz 384Kbps DELAY 0ms.ac3")
AudioDub(video,audio)
ConvertToYUY2
FFT3DFilter(sigma=1.5)

But it was real choppy - and the output file stuck on the first few frames.

I tried to render with Graphedit but it doesn't seem to recognize .m2ts files? When I told it to open all files and selected one it bombed :(

[helplessandlost]

Hrm, the DGAVCIndex seems to work much better except I'm getting no audio?

loadplugin("C:\Users\Thomas\Downloads\dgavcdec109\DGAVCDecode.dll")
AVCSource("00013.dga")
FFT3DFilter(sigma=1.5)

[poisondeathray]

Hrm, the DGAVCIndex seems to work much better except I'm getting no audio?

loadplugin("C:\Users\Thomas\Downloads\dgavcdec109\DGAVCDecode.dll")
AVCSource("00013.dga")
FFT3DFilter(sigma=1.5)


You have to use nicac3source() and audiodub(), just like your script for dgsource above

Or you can just import the audio separately into vegas

[helplessandlost]

OK, that worked :)

What a difference and the files are about 20% smaller then before!

loadplugin("C:\Users\Thomas\Downloads\dgavcdec109\DGAVCDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\NicAudio.dll")
AVCSource("00013.dga")
audio=NicAC3Source("00013 PID 1100 2_0ch 48KHz 384Kbps DELAY -50ms.ac3")
AudioDub(video,audio)
FFT3DFilter(sigma=1.5)

One more question though - how do I deal with the -50ms delay?

Thanks again for all your help!

[poisondeathray]

OK, that worked :)

What a difference and the files are about 20% smaller then before!

loadplugin("C:\Users\Thomas\Downloads\dgavcdec109\DGAVCDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\NicAudio.dll")
AVCSource("00013.dga")
audio=NicAC3Source("00013 PID 1100 2_0ch 48KHz 384Kbps DELAY -50ms.ac3")
AudioDub(video,audio)
FFT3DFilter(sigma=1.5)

One more question though - how do I deal with the -50ms delay?

Thanks again for all your help!

use DelayAudio() , although -50ms isn't perceptible to most folks

audio=NicAC3Source("00013 PID 1100 2_0ch 48KHz 384Kbps DELAY -50ms.ac3").DelayAudio(-0.05)

[helplessandlost]

Thank you very much for your help poison, it is much appreciated!

[manono]

You could also run the AC3 audio through DelayCut to remove the delay.

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/delaycut