480i to 1080p

[Mounir]

Would a size of 1440x1080p (4/3) work for 480i?

First i will deinterlace and make 60fps (with yadiff) then i will have to upscale to 1080 but i'm not sure if a 16/9 sar would be better. (1920x1080)
At first i thought i would keep the original aspect ratio, i'm unsure now.

The source is a vhs ntsc, 4/3 ratio originally. I have recorded it in huffyuv, 704x480i.

Inputs welcome :thanks:

[EuropeanMan]

What do you want to do exactly?

If input is 4/3, why would you want to transform it to 16/9. It will NOT work properly, unless you crop 2 sides so that your resulting picture LOOKS GOOD. Otherwise, it's distorted.
You recorded a TV show and what is your final destination? What codec? What format. Leave the resolution aside. Tell us what your OBJECTIVE is.

If you bob to 60fps, then what?

[Mounir]

i will use x264 / 60fps then nothing ,why?
It's for a guy, i said i would convert this tape for him.If it was only me i would keep a 4/3 ratio, not sure he'll like it.

[EuropeanMan]

What is the END PRODUCT? mp4/mkv file?

HOW WILL YOUR FRIEND VIEW IT? What is the REASONING for 60fps?

[Inspector.Gadget]

Two thoughts: upscaling is rarely worthwhile, and there is so little spatial information in that VHS recording (it's not even 480i, according to most digital equivalence estimates) that it will be particularly obvious. Second, 1080p60 is not Blu-ray compliant if that's your desired output.

[EuropeanMan]

...1080p60 is not Blu-ray compliant if that's your desired output.

That's what I was looking for in my brain...Thanks.

60fps made no sense for this project.

[Nightshiver]

Upscaling at all makes no sense. Especially since this source is from a cruddy VHS. It'd be easier to just convert the VHS to DVD then let the guy's Blu-ray player do the upscaling if he so desires.

[wonkey_monkey]

(it's not even 480i, according to most digital equivalence estimates)

I think it's only horizontal resolution that is subjective in that way. Even VHS still has 480 discrete lines per video frame.

I think the best bet, unless you need a "computer" format is to keep it as is and encode to MPEG2 for DVD, interlaced. Most TVs do good, if not great (quick plug for Samsung!*) upscaling, and this way you'll always be able to take advantage of better TVs as they improve. Plus it's decades-backwards compatible.

David

*I don't work for Samsung.

[Mounir]

Too late i made it 60 fps 1440x1080. I can't even read it on my pc the frame rate is so slow lol.I desperately need a good graphic card with h264 support..
I'll make a 30 fps version tomorrow , stick to the "old fashion way"

And yes upsampling, makes plenty of sense...when you got the right tools.
Not to mention this video has odd & even lines that go crazy at times i will need to fix that manually.

[2Bdecided]

720p or 1080i make more sense. 1080p30 has less temporal resolution than the original.

960x720p60 pillarboxed to 1280x720 makes some sense. It lets you use AVIsynth's fantastic deinterlacing, and smart upsizing.

Given the VHS source, I can't believe the TV upsizing 720>1080 is going to cause any visible difference compared with you going to 1080 direct yourself.

DVD is still more compatible, even if a poor player and poor TV might make a poorer HD version of it than you can yourself.

Cheers,
David.

[shoopdabloop]

If you absolutely must upscale, do something like this:

#704x480i source
TempGaussMC_beta1mod() # swap for nnedi2() if you don't want 60p
nnedi2_rpow2(rfactor=2,cshift="spline36resize")
Spline36Resize(1056,720)
AddBorders(112,0,112,0)
#1280x720p output

More must be done if you want to sharpen, dehalo, or clean up the video, so the upscale is actually worthwhile.

[Mounir]

1056x720 hmm yeah why not

[SeeMoreDigital]

You could generate a 720x480p60 or 1280x720p60 encode from your 720x480i60 source... They are both Blu-ray compliant.

[shoopdabloop]

1056x720 hmm yeah why not

Clearly you did not notice the AddBorders(112,0,112,0)?

AddBorders(left,top,right,bottom)

1056+112+112 = 1280

[Blue_MiSfit]

Yeah, I think 720p60 is the way to go.

VHS sources almost always have hideous amounts of chroma noise, so I'd probably toss MDegrain2 at it... or at least a robust fft3dgpu. Then of course some nice HD grain - like Grainfactory3

~MiSfit

[2Bdecided]

Clearly you did not notice the AddBorders(112,0,112,0)?

AddBorders(left,top,right,bottom)

1056+112+112 = 1280It might add up to 1280, but since the original is 4x3, then 720*(4/3)=960, not 1056.

Cheers,
David.

[shoopdabloop]

#704x480i source
TempGaussMC_beta1mod() # swap for nnedi2() if you don't want 60p
nnedi2_rpow2(rfactor=2,cshift="spline36resize") # current output: 1408x960
Spline36Resize(1056,720) # resize to 720 height, maintain 704/480 ratio
AddBorders(112,0,112,0) # pillarbox to 1280 width
#1280x720p output

[wonkey_monkey]

Spline36Resize(1056,720) # resize to 720 height, maintain 704/480 ratio

As the 2Bdecided said, the resize should really be to 960x720, because the original video capture (704x480) doesn't have square pixels - if you were to look at it with an aspect-ratio agnostic program, say Virtualdub, you'd see the picture is a little squished, so you don't want to maintain that ratio when going to square pixel HD.

Are there many TVs out there that wouldn't do a better job of upscaling from 480i than nnedi2? I'm not knocking it, but TVs do have dedicated chips for this kind of thing (don't they?).

David

[2Bdecided]

I think TGMC beats most built in de-interlacers (be they in the TV, or in the optical disc player, since that's as likely to be doing the deinterlacing / scaling these days). Depends.

As for upscaling: most decent ones can avoid jaggies; some over sharpen. Beyond this, I can't get excited about differences between different upscaling algorithms. I guess doing it yourself avoids one unknown, even if it doesn't necessarily improve things.

The use I find for these things is including SD footage in HD videos. Then it's a case of doing the least bad thing - I'm never happy with the result, but AVIsynth does a 1000x better job than most NLEs that claim you can drop SD footage onto an HD timeline - yes you can, but it looks awful when rendered! AVIsynth to the rescue every time.

Cheers,
David.

[Ghitulescu]

1440x1080i is not 4:3 but 16:9 - you don't have 4:3 any longer in HD. I'm not sure if there's indeed such an animal (1440x1080p) ... At least not in the standalones' world.

Of course, on a PC you can have any resolution you want - but I'm still wondering why you need upscaling in this case.
Expanding a VHS video (considered to be 352x480i) to 1920x1080 does not make it an IMAX one, it might however help if the upscaler in your TV/BD is bad (and it usually is) and the software algorithm you used is a good one. I personally save all my VHS as 352x576i (only few of them as 720x576i) and they look ok, even on my 50".

[2Bdecided]

i and p don't equate with 16/9 and 4/3.

True that 1440x1080 is still assumed to be 16x9 (anamorphic) - if it's meant to be 4x3 (square pixel), you'd have to pillarbox to 1920x1080 for widespread support.

(Or do 1080x1080, and pillarbox to 1440x1080 16x9 anamorphic!)

Cheers,
David.

[shoopdabloop]

This is a somewhat unrelated question, but what kind of results does the current state-of-the-art commercial upsizing algorithm produce?