4:3>crop>16:9

[Testament]

hi, in my country tv format is 4:3 PAL. i ripped tv show in 4:3, but video is 16:9 (Screen below). And i need to crop it, but i dont know how to make 16:9, earlier i just made suppositions of Aspect ratio, and i worried of rezolution enlarge and decrease. sorry my language.
Original rezolution 720x576. I need to decrease it to 624x352. what Crop number should i use?
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1915/snapshot20091113161452.th.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/snapshot20091113161452.jpg/) http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9421/cropedd.th.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/cropedd.jpg/)

EDIT: its .ts

[Ghitulescu]

Why you need to crop it? If your TV is 16:9 it must have a sort of zoom. If your TV is 4:3 it will restore the image as it was (43LB) but not before scaling it twice (one done by you, the other done by the TV). If the borders bother you, you can matte them in avisynth. And don't forget about the overscan, which is why the studio made the actual image less than 720 pixels wide.

The cropping depends on the intended target: PC or TV.

[Testament]

my tv is 4:3, not 16:9. target is PC, TV, whatever. i know how to test croped file with avisync.
i just need numbers of crop sides (how much crop them to get perfect 16:9 rip). and how to get them.

[Keiyakusha]

If you need 624x352, crop all black borders and resize to 624x352. I don't get what is the problem...

[Testament]

i dont know how much i need to crop, cuz if to much(or less), it may strech out

[Keiyakusha]

lanczosresize(624,352,10,75,-13,-80)
if it looks stretched with that, then this is not 16x9
With this one screenshot it looks fine.

[Testament]

ok, thanks i written 10, 76, -14, -80 and it looks nice

[smok3]

http://resizecalc.somestuff.org/index.php?ssmw=720&sar=1.06667&sar2=&ssmh=576&CT=76&CL=10&CR=14&CB=82&mplayCrop=&trw=640&dar=1&dar2=&modw=&modh=&padw=&padh=&css=&doit=true&trw=624

[Ghitulescu]

If you need 624x352, crop all black borders and resize to 624x352. I don't get what is the problem...

The problem is that not all software players respect the PAR (I don't use it but there are lots of threads form people having hard days trying to make MPC display the correct image using DAR/PAR), so the universal solution to that is to use computer PAR (1:1) instead of TV (PAL or NTSC PAR). So simply cropping an image that was made for TV will still display egghead people, unless some resizing is performed thereupon.

This is why I asked about the viewing target. For PC you may crop the black borders.

[Keiyakusha]

Ghitulescu
Sorry, I don't understand what you trying to say. I don't asked you why you asked about the viewing target...
Anyway it was pretty obvious that Testament wants 1:1 par. I think this is super easy case, thats why I wondered what is so hard here.

P.S.
Every normal player respects PAR. The problems some peoples have - this is another story.

[Ghitulescu]

Ghitulescu
Sorry, I don't understand what you trying to say. I don't asked you why you asked about the viewing target...
Anyway it was pretty obvious that Testament wants 1:1 par. I think this is super easy case, thats why I wondered what is so hard here.

P.S.
Every normal player respects PAR. The problems some peoples have - this is another story.

No, that the OP wanted a PAR=1 is your assumption. Also that every normal player should respect the PAR is again a maybe; BTW what is a normal player? There are also people that convert TV rip into AVIs for having them watched on a hardware media player (MediaTanks) - again it remains to be established if they respect the PAR. So again you assumed that he wants to watch them on a PC. Because he stated in his second message that PC, TV whatever.

Secondly, the issue is if people have problems with a particular player then they usually try to patch the video instead of updating their player or changing it. They don't see the difference between a computer monitor and a real TV. You can't imagine how many people I've seen in my life kicking their innocent TV sets for VCR faults ... nothing new under the sun, it was always the messenger that suffered the consequences for the bad news he brought with :(

To put an end to this, one can't change a video that was made for TV into a PC video solely by cropping with no resizing at all, and viceversa. One hopes that the player respects the PAR/DAR.

Sometimes a newbie has problems in identifying the real problem and search for solutions in a different place. I gave him all the info he needed to have a correct decision. Or to ask specific questions.

[Keiyakusha]

Ghitulescu
No, that the OP wanted a PAR=1 is your assumption.
Yes. My assumption. So what?

Also that every normal player should respect the PAR is again a maybe; BTW what is a normal player?
Not "maybe" but should. Normal - known to be working as expected. MPC-HC, ZoomPlayer, KMPlayer etc.

There are also people that convert TV rip into AVIs for having them watched on a hardware media player (MediaTanks) - again it remains to be established if they respect the PAR. So again you assumed that he wants to watch them on a PC. Because he stated in his second message that PC, TV whatever.
He also stated what resolution exactly he wants to get. Since this is 16x9 resolution this also confirms he wants par 1:1

Secondly, the issue is if people have problems with a particular player then they usually try to patch the video instead of updating their player or changing it. They don't see the difference between a computer monitor and a real TV. You can't imagine how many people I've seen in my life kicking their innocent TV sets for VCR faults ... nothing new under the sun, it was always the messenger that suffered the consequences for the bad news he brought with
Playback problems is not my problems. There was a simple question, I answered to that question.

Sometimes a newbie has problems in identifying the real problem and search for solutions in a different place. I gave him all the info he needed to have a correct decision. Or to ask specific questions.
I don't see any problems here, I see only question "how to do it right". Yes, you gave him some info, maybe you wanted to hear something from him, but how this concerns me? What do you want from me?

[Ghitulescu]

He also stated what resolution exactly he wants to get. Since this is 16x9 resolution this also confirms he wants par 1:1

You're wrong here, 16:9 does not imply a PAR of 1:1. Because a WS PAL has the same frame size of 720x756i as a LB one and a true 4:3 one.
You may be right for HDTV (1440x1080i eg HDV has not a PAR of 1:1).
Playback problems is not my problems. There was a simple question, I answered to that question.
I don't see any problems here, I see only question "how to do it right". Yes, you gave him some info, maybe you wanted to hear something from him, but how this concerns me? What do you want from me?
It never occured to me that the OP simply looked for something to occupy his mind and free time, my mistake, I thought that he wanted to watch the clips = playback.

This has nothing to do you you personaly, it just pointed out the your answer was not the correct one, due to playback issues. I don't want anything from you, I just quoted your message.

@Testament
After you decide what to do with your clips, have a look here -> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtechbeta/aspectratios.html and in the stickies for capturing and editing video. Based on your actual clips you can figure it yourself or use the calculator smok3 gave you.

[Keiyakusha]

You're wrong here, 16:9 does not imply a PAR of 1:1. Because a WS PAL has the same frame size of 720x756i as a LB one and a true 4:3 one.
I don't understand what do you mean here, sorry. Maybe because of my bad English. Testament said he wants 624x352. What PAR this can be if not 1:1? EDIT: I'm talking about PAR of the result. The source PAR of course will not be 1:1.

Looking at the picture at the 1st post I see anamorphic letterboxed video. After applying right par, cropping horizontal and vertical black bas. Result is exactly 16x9. Thats the same as smok3 suggested in his example with only one difference. To simplify things I just said "crop black bars and resize to 624x352" which gives the same result.

it just pointed out the your answer was not the correct one, due to playback issues
Please explain more. By my suggestion OP will ends up with 624x352 resolution and with right aspect ratio. What playback issues? And even if there will be some, you can't say my answer is not correct because of that! Thats already another problem and OP can create another thread to solve it.

[Ghitulescu]

720x576 is just the frame size. A video that has 720x576 pixels can either be
WideScreen (WS) - in this case the player automatically enlarges the image for a 16:9 TV or adds borders top and bottom for 4:3 TVs;
or LetterBoxed (LB) - in which case the player sends the image zoomed to a 16:9 TV or as it is to a 4:3 one;
or FullScreen (FS) that means pure 4:3.
The resulting image is called display size and differs, logically!, for case WS and LB/FS. Practically LB is a pure FS image with added mattings to simulate an WS image.

The video standards were established before the PCs were even considered SciFi, that's why a PAL image has an DAR of 4:3 despite 720:576 is hey surprise surprise 5:4 (not to mention NTSC which has a whopping 6:4 ratio). Here comes the PAR. I'm from a PAL region.

So, bottom line, use the software link from smok3 and be happy. As I said before, one still has to input the resulting PAR, which choice is dictated by the main viewing target (TV or PC).

-=-
The reason why I brought this into discussion was that the OP was unaware of PAR/DAR and family.

[Ghitulescu]

Please explain more. By my suggestion OP will ends up with 624x352 resolution and with right aspect ratio. What playback issues? And even if there will be some, you can't say my answer is not correct because of that! Thats already another problem and OP can create another thread to solve it.

You're absolutely right (the right frame size and the right DAR) except that the PAR is still PAL and not 1:1. While this does not pose too many problems for most people (if they're not disturbed by a squeezed 4:3 image on a 16:9 TV, they'll withstand a puny 7% :)), there are people that notice this. Myself included.
Eggheads people onscreen due to the inability of some software players to interpret the PAR/DAR flags is a playback problem in my view.