How to convert 1920x1080 50i to 1080p 25fps

[jult]

Recently obtained a camera with the strange quirk to store its recorded 1920x1080 pixels full-HD video at 50 fps interlaced, while getting 25 frames/second from its sensor. So, its native format is 1080p (25p), but Panasonic converts the signal to 1080i (for ridiculous reasons like iMovie/TV-set compatibilty and such).
Of course I don't need the 50i .MTS files, and want them to be 25fps progressive.

Example AVCHD Full-HD file unaltered/directly from this camera -> link (http://afluisterland.nl/rawtape/1080i_25fps_Panasonic_GH1.MTS) (10 MB).
(I know, it's not even in focus, I just held the cam out of my studio Window for this)

Media-info of this file:
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : BluRay Video
File size : 10.4 MiB
Duration : 6s 240ms
Overall bit rate : 13.9 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 18.0 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Duration : 6s 200ms
Bit rate : 13.2 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.254
Stream size : 9.75 MiB (94%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 6s 240ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 146 KiB (1%)Can someone here tell me what software (and settings) to use for the mass-conversions I have to do on these files?
I would not like to have anything interlaced before it enters my NLE, just need the 1920x1080 pixel format at 25 fps (PAL), no weird encapsulating in 50i. And preferably no lossy converting of an already compressed source.

(By the way: Why is media-info stating that its Standard is NTSC?)

Thanks in advance for any and all input on this.

[Forteen88]

I'd use this Avisynth-line to deinterlace:
TempGaussMC_beta1mod(tr2=0, EdiMode="NNEDI2").SelectEven()

[jult]

I'd use this Avisynth-line to deinterlace:
TempGaussMC_beta1mod(tr2=0, EdiMode="NNEDI2").SelectEven()And what else? I mean, you would use that together with a re-encode or transcode, or is there a way to avoid any changes to the source and just SelectEven?

[poisondeathray]

I wouldn't deinterlace it because it's not interlaced. You will just lose quality doing that, and take a long long time with TGMC

What NLE are you using? There should be some settings to interpret or conform the footage

[Forteen88]

And what else? I mean, you would use that together with a re-encode or transcode, or is there a way to avoid any changes to the source and just SelectEven?I'd reencode with x264 (but be aware that some users got issues with the new x264). I don't know about just using SelectEven(), but TempGaussMC gives very high-quality deinterlacing.
Of course, the source must be pure interlaced for that.

[Inspector.Gadget]

If it's just progressive frames separated into fields, I would think you just need to have Avisynth treat it as field-based with the proper field order and then weave() them.

[Atak_Snajpera]

I see no horizontal lines! (comb effect) Your camcorder incorrectly flags everything as interlaced. That's all! Unfortunately this is very common. :(

[MatLz]

SelectevenORodd(bob()) ? Is not the simpliest thing to do?

[poisondeathray]

No, there is no reason to use avisynth. The OP just wants to import it into his NLE.

It's 25p progressive content, with interlaced flag as Atak pointed out. Don't trust mediainfo, because it just reads the header. Unfortunately, some NLE's only read the header info as well. This is why you conform/interpret the footage if possible (fastest option, with no re-encoding, and no quality loss). This works in Premiere Pro, for example. Most NLE's will have similar options

Avisynth would be a last resort IMO, because it requires re-encoding. For example, DirectShowSource + Haali + FFDshow decodes it properly as 25fps. You might use this to encode to lossless intermediate, ONLY if your editor couldn't handle the native footage

[roozhou]

I agree with poisondeathray.
This is a 25fps progressive footage encapsulated in 50i H264 stream. It is very common in Panasonic and Canon's AVCHD camcorders. You should decode it as is without any post-processing and set deinterlacing option to "weave" if there is one.

[MatLz]

Hmm I see combing artifacts...(just zoom a little)
After Bobing the clip they disapear...
After cutting a part in the middle of the clip with dgavcindex, this part is always considered as interlaced. I'm not really aware about the headers...but they are not in the middle of the clip, right?

[poisondeathray]

You are probably mistaking the aliasing artifacts for "combing" from interlacing

This is from a euro spec GH1 . It is a DLSR camera. Great photo stills camera, crappy video camera.

The aliasing artifacts are from pixel binning common on all DSLRs. Many people get confused from the aliasing and think it's interlaced - it is not. The sensor is huge for stills. I think it's 12MP. Those artifacts are just from the aliasing from pixel sampling from the large sensor. (Instead of resizing the image down to 1920x1080, it just takes every 4th or 5th pixels or something, that's why you get "jaggies" or aliasing). The circuitry just isn't fast enough for a proper downsize. Note in "burst" mode, most DSLR's only get 6-8fps for stills. In order to get proper "video" framerates, subsampling has to occur.

If you separate the fields in avisynth, and scrub through, you will see each consecutive field is the same temporally (same snapshot in time). Therefore it is progressive.

[jult]

This is from a euro spec GH1 . It is a DSLR camera. Great photo stills camera, crappy video camera.I strongly disagree there, it's not a DSLR (no mirrors, directly to sensor), multi-aspect ratio surface (http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgh1/images/sensordiagram.jpg) of ~14MP in total
And the video from this cam is amazing, OIS and AFC during filming, all-round manual control! I recommend you check some footage here (http://vimeo.com/groups/gh1/videos). Actual imdb movies will be (and are being) shot using the GH1.

that's why you get "jaggies" or aliasing). The circuitry just isn't fast enough for a proper downsize.That's only the case with 1920x1080 pixel recording, all the 720p stuff doesn't suffer from any of that.

But thanks for your advice, I already thought it wasn't actual interlacing, I should be able to open it as is in Vegas Pro x64. Will check and confirm tomorrow.

[poisondeathray]

OK so "technically" it might not be a DSLR but it still suffers from aliasing and moire. It does do a form of pixel binning. I've shot with both GH1, 7D. Have a look at technical reviews with test charts. Aliasing is much worse on 7D, but the GH1 still suffers from it.

I agree that it is possible to make nice looking video. There are lots on the web.

BUT, it doesn't blowup to film or for HD material very nicely. If all you do is shoot for youtube, or the web, then it might be ok. 1080 mode is unusable because of the weak compression. This is the worst part of the camera. It features a low quality baseline h.264 hardware implementation capped at 17Mbps. No b-frames. No CABAC. Compare this to the 7d which shoots 40-50Mbps to compensate for the weak codec. The biggest complaint from all users is "mud" from the weak compression. It completely falls apart. You will see this in all shots that have any type of motion. You have to use it very specifically - very limited motion, avoid shots with stripes (like striped shirts, buildings, fences).

Cheers

[Atak_Snajpera]

I agree. I see no details on pavement. Also grass looks terrible. I would rather buy Canon HF100 than this junk.
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3403/1080i25fpspanasonicgh1m.th.png (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/1080i25fpspanasonicgh1m.png/)

[jult]

BUT, it doesn't blowup to film or for HD material very nicely. If all you do is shoot for youtube, or the web, then it might be ok. 1080 mode is unusable because of the weak compression.Hmm.. "The Bank Job", "RocknRolla", "Crank 2: High Voltage", "Knowing", "Blair Witch Project", and let's not forget (the Academy Award winning feature for Best Cinematography!) "Slumdog Millionaire" have ALL been shot with worse CMOS sensors than this! And this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1503778/ is shot entirely with the GH1. I'm sure it can be better, but it's a start..

This is the worst part of the camera. It features a low quality baseline h.264 hardware implementation capped at 17Mbps. No b-frames. No CABAC.
Canon 7D: 5.5 MB/sec (1080P MOV), 5.5 MB/sec (720P MOV)
Panasonic GH1: 2.8 MB/sec (1080p AVCHD), 4.3 MB/sec (720p Motion JPEG)
but the audio of the 7D is horrible compared to that of the GH1.

Perhaps an update of the GH1 firmware would include improved codec-processing? I'm surprised that Panasonic used a "low quality baseline codec" for its AVCHD 1080p. Why would they? The CPU is fast enough to use a better one.

I agree it's a bit sad they seem to have included the 1080p option as some kind of sales-pitch, instead of an actual pro option. With the rest of the camera (including 720p video) being so good it's really weird to find parts they tried to save money on like that..

[poisondeathray]

Hmm.. "The Bank Job", "RocknRolla", "Crank 2: High Voltage", "Knowing", "Blair Witch Project", and let's not forget (the Academy Award winning feature for Best Cinematography!) "Slumdog Millionaire" have ALL been shot with worse CMOS sensors than this! And this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1503778/ is shot entirely with the GH1. I'm sure it can be better, but it's a start..


It's a start, sure. But the sensor was designed to shoot stills, not video. The CPU isn't powerful enough to resize in realtime 24fps. It has to pixel bin. This is a fact and it's true for all cameras in this class (I'm referring to "DSLR" type, but I'm sure you know what I mean)

The sensor is only part of the equation. If you could do a burst rate at 24fps, with stills, yes, it would be an awesome camera. Then itwould be just like the Red One. And it's price too:) Then you wouldn't have the aliasing issues (or a lot less). Even using $20K lenses, this camera is SEVERELY handicapped by the recording compression.

It's the DSLR revolution. Lot's of high budget movies have have used shitty cameras used for certain shots. Lots of "pro" and "indy" videographers have made shorts with GH1 and other "DSLRs". But they are carefully selected pieces. All these types of cameras have severe limitations, but if you know exactly what the limitations are, you can work around them. Look at the res charts, it's roughly SD in terms of true resolved resolution. Of course, resolution is only 1 factor, there are so many other categories to discuss...but we should limit it to AVC since this is the AVC subforum...

There are pros/cons to every camera. I like GH1's form factor, and like you said audio on 7D sucks. The aliasing on the 7D is very bad, but it doesn't suffer as bad from the "codec mud" that the GH1 has.


Perhaps an update of the GH1 firmware would include improved codec-processing? I'm surprised that Panasonic used a "low quality baseline codec" for its AVCHD 1080p. Why would they? The CPU is fast enough to use a better one.


This is every GH1 users' dream. Read the various message boards. It's not going to happen.

In order to make it a <$2K camera, you need to make trade offs. The biggest ones on the GH1 in terms of video were compression and video image scaling/sampling.

I 100% guarantee that you will agree with me when you begin to shoot some more...

[jult]

I agree. I see no details on pavement. Also grass looks terriblePlease know that this is by no means a well-done shot. I did not focus, and it was set to Manual everything. If you want to 'judge' the GH1, try the vimeo link I posted earlier for some footage. Or check out this review (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/gh1.shtml).

[jult]

Even using $20K lenses, this camera is SEVERELY handicapped by the recording compression.
[...]
I 100% guarantee that you will agree with me when you begin to shoot some more...Don't think so; All cameras and camcorders I own (and have owned before this) don't do a better job than this. Not even remotely close to this, even. The Canon HF10, which I have sold last week, was the best contender in my setups, but it is plain stupid to work with as a pro, I mean, the way Canon thinks we can handle so-called 'manual' control on that thing is idiotic. I've had it with the new 'prosumer' camcorders and their race to oblivion. It's better to wait that H264 revolution out a while, before buying a camcorder.

I've already done a lot of video-recordings with this GH1, and they look simply amazing. What I notice most about this camera, is how true-to-life the images look. Not to mention the fact that I had some more emphasis on photography, which this Panasonic and lens are awesome at.

[poisondeathray]

I agree with you that the standard consumer camcorders usually don't have any proper "manual" controls

I agree that it can look great. Certain shots are very cinematic straight out of the camera, even without grading or post work.

But you have to be very careful on what and how you shoot. The camera is very very unforgiving on certain shots. I don't think you have shot enough, or you have limited yourself stylized shots with minimal motion and low complexity scenes.

Try shooting motion, instead of still depth of field head shots and you will see what I mean. Go shoot grass or trees and do a pan. The image completely falls apart. Every GH1 owner I know says the same thing. It's the #1 gripe.

I say again: Great stills camera. Significant weaknesses as a video camera (but you can work around them). You can put on excellent glass and get depth of field with a body <$2K.


It's better to wait that H264 revolution out a while, before buying a camcorder.


Don't lump h.264 into 1 category. h.264 has the ability to provide excellent compression, even from hardware based chips. There is a wide range from pure crap to excellent. It just happens the GH1 implementation is on the low end. Compare this to the HMC150's h.264 AVCHD implementation, it's is many times more efficient because it uses b-frames, CABAC, AVC high (I8x8 transfrom). It doesn't fall apart like the GH1's compression implementation with motion. The 7D has crappy compression efficiency as well, but it makes up for it by using 2x the bitrate.

[Atak_Snajpera]

Please know that this is by no means a well-done shot. I did not focus, and that it was set on Manual everything.
Image quality is destroyed not by you but by terrible compression.

[jult]

Image quality is destroyed not by you but by terrible compression.
That's just not true. I can do the exact same thing with a whole lot more focuss and attention, and it wouldn't look 'destroyed'.
I've just filmed a moving audiotape with the GH1 at 1080p, and there's no blurring there at all if you check the frames.