a little help with capturing and encoding my home made VHS tapes

[ido2]

After reading hours of posts on the forum...


I have around 60-80 upto 20 year old tapes analog tapes, of them a dozen or so SVHS, and the rest are VHS-C and hi8 PAL home videos.

I'm talking about old home videos, so quality isn't that good, its not catastrophic either. Some of footage was photographed handheld and rather shaky too.


I'll start with the ending result that I want:
I'd like the video's to be watchable on an LCD tv, although sometimes on the computer. I'll burn them on bluray someday for archiving.


I'd like comments/improvements on what I'm planning to do
so here are the questions (marked by letters):


Capturing:
I'll be using a 6-head LG svhs deck and my sony hi8 camera feeding a canopus ADVC 110 and windv/scenalyzer (end resolution will be 704/720)
After a few tests I've done, I am rather happy with the results, Considering they're source and age.


Editing:
I am not sure I'll be editing much, but I would like to preserve as much as quality as possible so editing would be possible in the future (hence also archiving on harddrive - I will later elaborate on this).


Post-processing:
(footage will be kept interlaced ofcourse)
I haven't yet decided what to do, and I need help here too.
I am not sure if I should keep the footage as-is, and not do anything with it besides cropping 8 pixel head scanning noise on the bottom, or process the video with filters, this is mostly because I'm not much of a video guru, so Its hard for me to tell when chroma needs adjustment, or if sharpness is needed.
As I don't know what output is considered to look best, altering these settings might make things worse -
(A) This is a major issue, and I would like help here, what do any of you usually do in your workflow for homemade VHS tapes ?
(B) I would prefer minimal post-processing spite of time, and doing it later over the years, yet I am afraid that after re-encoding this will be a quality issue - is this true ?

Encoding/Archiving:
Since MPEG2 needs a high bitrate to maintain high quality, and also since some of those tapes are 180 min which wouldn't fit well on a single DVD, I had this idea of encoding them with h264, and authoring them to a bluray disc.

(C) I've read a lot about H.264, but it got me even more confused. What encoder and bitrate/settings would you recommend ?


Any help will be appreciated.

[Ghitulescu]

Personally I do the following:

VHS - 352 samples (720 is usually overkill) to MPEG2. If it's important, then I'll have them captured at 720x576i (PAL).
SVHS - they need more than 352 samples, I usually go up to 720.
Hi8 is about the same as SVHS.

There are also intermediate resolutions like 544x or 480x576i, but they don't follow the DVD standards and are not compatible with all players (most recorders would do fine).

For the VHS tapes I personally use a good feeder (a good SVHS player is better than a bad one + 1001 filters in VDub) that sends the video through a TBC and a hardware filter* (color correction, color shift, phase corrector etc.) to a very good DVD recorder and the audio through a mixer with EQ. After a test run the system runs in real time with very good results. I reauthor the DVDR very easy (since I'm planning the filming before the actual filming :)), just simple cuts.

*Since the recordings are made by a single camcorder/VCR, one adjustment is enough for the whole tape (I also use manual controls, so I don't need to worry about contrast, colours, white balance etc.). You can have better processing on a PC, but the quality raises just a bit at the expense of many processing hours.

The ADVC is a good capture card, some may think it's not good to convert the analog into DV first, just to recode it later into MPEG-2/H.264, but the differences are minimal for amateur footage (I mean you'll have bigger issues than DV artefacts).

However, if your videos are shaky, you have to process them on a PC...
-=-
For BD half-resolutions are not allowed, you have to use at least 720x576i (x480i for NTSC).

PS: do a full FF/REW of each tape before recording, maybe with a dust removal if needed. And record everything from the beginning to the very end (you'll edit them later on).

[ido2]

Thanks for the quick answer.


I am not interested in encoding them in mpeg, as i don't like its motion compressed blockiness look

Besides, the canopus captures them in DV format at 720x576i.
From what I understand from your post, I should keep the vids in the above resolution since I'm going to BD them in the future.

Acutally I the tapes are from three different cameras, two VHS-C and a hi8, i'm not sure which tape is which (other then the hi8 of course), but I'll manage.

I do not have access to a TBC, and can't get one cheap enough either, so I will just have to do without it.

What are the most important corrections I should make ?
I tried more then a dozen different plugins in avisynth, but got all mixed up from the results, that is, I'm not a kind of person that has a good eye for this, but artifacts really bother me when I notice them (hence I prefer original and do-it-later fix up, then to go wrong and ruin the vid's instead of fixing them).

How about encoding ? I'd like to have it BD'able right away (no need to reencode), however keep it at maximum quality possible so I can later edit the material, is there such a balance possible with H.264 ?

[Ghitulescu]

I am not interested in encoding them in mpeg, as i don't like its motion compressed blockiness look

Sure, what you like, once the video is correctly digitized
Besides, the canopus captures them in DV format at 720x576i.

I know this ;) This is why I said
...The ADVC is a good capture card, some may think it's not good to convert the analog into DV first, just to recode it later into MPEG-2/H.264...
From what I understand from your post, I should keep the vids in the above resolution since I'm going to BD them in the future.

YES.
I do not have access to a TBC, and can't get one cheap enough either, so I will just have to do without it.

That's bad, you should have one, even if you treat 1st generation tapes. However, a bad/cheap TBC is worse than no TBC.
What are the most important corrections I should make ?
I tried more then a dozen different plugins in avisynth, but got all mixed up from the results, that is, I'm not a kind of person that has a good eye for this, but artifacts really bother me when I notice them (hence I prefer original and do-it-later fix up, then to go wrong and ruin the vid's instead of fixing them).

Nobody (God himself included) could answer your question. It depends on your footage.
However, as a general advice, I do enhance both the contrast and [sometimes] the luma (brightness) since they are the first to get lost. Then, if needed, I'll enhance the high frequencies too (details) most people call it sharpening. And a definitive filter is chroma shift, since the possibility that the colour doesn't match the luma is quite high (well, less for 1st generation).

[ido2]

should the mono audio source be recorded to left, right or both channels ?

[Ghitulescu]

I do this way.

[2Bdecided]

I do not have access to a TBC, and can't get one cheap enough either, so I will just have to do without it.An ADVC110 is a pointlessly expensive and almost useless toy when working with VHS unless you have a line-TBC.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

People worship this little capture device, but for capturing VHS, you need a TBC somewhere - unless you don't care about quality - but if you didn't care about quality, you wouldn't have bought an ADVC110 - and you wouldn't be spending hours filtering it.

There are some Panasonic DVD recorders which do some signal clean-up, including TBC, in their input circuitry. They're not great DVD recorders, so they don't cost too much second hand.

I think there's a list of them on videohelp.com forum somewhere. If not, ask there.

One of those DVD recorders in loop-through mode is a great solution if you want to use a VCR without TBC with an ADVC110.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
David.

[Chainmax]

So what are current buyable recommendations? Are 10bit Philips ADC-based (SAA713x, IIRC) card still the ones to buy for capturing analogue content? Is there anything out there comparable to a good SVHS with full frame (or at least line-based) TBC since they have become so rare and expensive?

[johnmeyer]

I just finished transferring forty-nine VHS and VHS-C tapes, a total of 22.5 hours. I have previously done hundreds of hours of VHS transfer.

1. I now use a VCR which has a built-in TBC and also built-in DV encoder (the JVC VS30U). Previously, I used high-end Panasonic VCRs. The TBC helps on some tapes, but the difference is negligible if your tapes are recorded in SP and are in really good shape. Don't get me wrong, a TBC can help, and in the days when you were transferring from VHS to VHS, it was essential. However, unless you see TBC errors in your transfers (flagging, "teeth" on alternating scan lines), you might not need it.

2. With my older VCRs, I encoded using the pass-through on my DV camera. This provides excellent, easy-to-edit DV 720x480 video. The limited colorspace of DV doesn't matter because VHS color is so screwed up to begin with. The 720x480 resolution is obviously much greater than what VHS or even S-VHS could really capture.

3. After capture, I do levels correction and color correction using Sony Vegas. Really old VHS (taken with Vidicon or Saticon tube-based cameras) usually have serious color and levels issues. To do the color correction requires not only the Color Corrector, but also the secondary color corrector, sometimes with as many as three secondary color correctors. These are used to get rid of purple, green and other artifacts. For the newer cameras, introduced in the late 1980s, this level of color correction is not necessary.

4. I then run the video through a script which kills both the chroma and the dot noise. There is no such thing as a "one script fits all" technique when it comes to noise reduction, but I find that the following is a good starting point, and it runs very fast on a multi-core computer (it requires the multi-core version of AVISynth):

#Denoiser script for interlaced video using MDegrain2
Loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MVTools\mvtools2.dll")
loadPlugin("c:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\CNR\Cnr2.dll")
loadPlugin("c:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MT.dll")

SetMTMode(5)
#Modify this line to point to your video file
source=AVISource("E:\frameserver.avi").killaudio().AssumeBFF()
SetMTMode(2,0)

#Only use chroma restoration for analog source material
chroma=source.Cnr2("oxx",8,16,191,100,255,32,255,false) #VHS
#chroma=source.Cnr2("oxx",8,14,191,75,255,20,255,false) #Laserdisc

output=MDegrain2i2(chroma,2,0)
#stackhorizontal(source.separatefields(),output.separatefields())
return output


function MDegrain2i2(clip source, int "overlap", int "dct")
{
overlap=default(overlap,0) # overlap value (0 to 4 for blksize=8)
dct=default(dct,0) # use dct=1 for clip with light flicker
fields=source.SeparateFields() # separate by fields
super = fields.MSuper()
backward_vec2 = super.MAnalyse(isb = true, delta = 2, overlap=overlap, dct=dct)
forward_vec2 = super.MAnalyse(isb = false, delta = 2, overlap=overlap, dct=dct)
backward_vec4 = super.MAnalyse(isb = true, delta = 4, overlap=overlap, dct=dct)
forward_vec4 = super.MAnalyse(isb = false, delta = 4, overlap=overlap, dct=dct)
fields.MDegrain2(super, backward_vec2,forward_vec2,backward_vec4,forward_vec4,thSAD=400)
Weave()
}

[Ghitulescu]

I just finished transferring forty-nine VHS and VHS-C tapes, a total of 22.5 hours. I have previously done hundreds of hours of VHS transfer.

1. I now use a VCR which has a built-in TBC and also built-in DV encoder (the JVC VS30U). Previously, I used high-end Panasonic VCRs. The TBC helps on some tapes, but the difference is negligible if your tapes are recorded in SP and are in really good shape. Don't get me wrong, a TBC can help, and in the days when you were transferring from VHS to VHS, it was essential. However, unless you see TBC errors in your transfers (flagging, "teeth" on alternating scan lines), you might not need it.

2. With my older VCRs, I encoded using the pass-through on my DV camera. This provides excellent, easy-to-edit DV 720x480 video. The limited colorspace of DV doesn't matter because VHS color is so screwed up to begin with. The 720x480 resolution is obviously much greater than what VHS or even S-VHS could really capture.

3. After capture, I do levels correction and color correction using Sony Vegas. Really old VHS (taken with Vidicon or Saticon tube-based cameras) usually have serious color and levels issues. To do the color correction requires not only the Color Corrector, but also the secondary color corrector, sometimes with as many as three secondary color correctors. These are used to get rid of purple, green and other artifacts. For the newer cameras, introduced in the late 1980s, this level of color correction is not necessary.

4. I then run the video through a script which kills both the chroma and the dot noise. There is no such thing as a "one script fits all" technique when it comes to noise reduction, but I find that the following is a good starting point, and it runs very fast on a multi-core computer (it requires the multi-core version of AVISynth):


1. + 2. it's exactly how I do my tapes. On the other hand, don't forget that your JVC (I have the "civil" granpa, the DVS1 in PAL) already corrects the jitter in the VHS source before sending it to the DV. Just that I send some of them directly to my Pioneer, which is still unbeatable until today in terms of quality (up to 3.5h mode).

3. I do the corrections in hardware with the controls of a TBC and a secondary separate color corrector - The result is usually good, always better than the tape itself. It's not perfect, but I can live with. The audio is corrected separately as well.

4. I spare therefore myself the time and nerves for doing them on a PC. The only editing is the removal of commercials.

Indeed, sometimes a TBC seems not to be necessary. First of all when you look directly on a TV, because the TV is relatively insensible to this jitter (if you see it, then either the tape is a non-TBCed nth generation or it's beyond normal correction). Secondly, if you used a DVD recorder or a DV pass-through, you'll end with a product that is already jitter-free and jitter-corrected. But on problematic tapes these cannot help. That's why I always use a TBC even if it's not aparently needed (it avoids also the frame drops on the recorder side, not on mine, but generally speaking).