FL, FR, FC, BC layout in FLAC?

[[)370|\|470!2]

...Or any other lossless acceptable by matroska. FLAC that Eac3to produces has improper channel layout: FL, FR, SL, SR.

Could such thing

http://xs1044.xs.to/xs1044/09423/000x0258.jpg

Be possible with flac or wavpack maybe?

[TinTime]

FLAC seems to be pretty rigid in its channel definitions. A 4 channel FLAC implies left, right, back left, back right as you've found.

Don't know if wavpack will work or not - give it a go :)

The other option is splitting the surround channel into SL and SR. A 5 channel FLAC is defined as left, right, center, back/surround left, back/surround right which would be correct in this case. I guess this is how eac3to should behave when transcoding this particular channel configuration to FLAC.

[Midzuki]

Don't forget TTA --- both lossless and Matroska-compatible. :)

[[)370|\|470!2]

Yeah well, the only problem there is to circumvent that finicky 4gb .wav barrier, as both wavpack and trueaudio refuse to deal with it. And there seem to be not a way to feed them with separated mono wavs.

[TinTime]

Of course wav itself is lossless and matroska compatible.

If space doesn't matter...

[TinTime]

Yeah well, the only problem there is to circumvent that finicky 4gb .wav barrier, as both wavpack and trueaudio refuse to deal with it. And there seem to be not a way to feed them with separated mono wavs.

It's been ages since I used wavpack so I thought I'd revisit it. It's got an -i option to ignore the length of the input file, which worked with my test file (FLAC, 48kHz, 24bit, 5.1, 2 hours long, piped into wavpack from eac3to).

Looks like wavpack might be a possibility then, assuming that it stores the channel mask from the original wav and there's a decoder that honours it.

[Skelsgard]

Wavpack defaults to 4.0 channel mask, no matter what you feed it. Tested with 4ch 48kHz file with PCM header, WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE header, and piping thru wavi (with /M 263 option) and avs2raw.
The --channel-order=FL,FR,FC,BR option doesn't work either.
And FLAC reports "4ch.wav: ERROR: WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE chunk with unsupported channel mask=0x0107".
The wav file plays properly with the 4th channel coming out from the BC channel in my soundboard.
TTA nor MLP keep the masking either.

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Sad but true, as i can also tell after some research. It just looks like authors of free software never give a damn about user needs. So i've ended up using DTS-MA and partly recompressing videos to make them fit and came to conclusion that free soft is evil. :devil: Thank you guys for your replies though.

[[)370|\|470!2]

Looks like wavpack might be a possibility then, assuming that it stores the channel mask from the original wav and there's a decoder that honours it.
Yes, i've tried it, but also to no avail.

[Midzuki]

TTA nor MLP keep the masking either.

I could not believe "that", so today I took the time to verify it. Unfortunately, ffdshow too regards 3.1 as 4.0. :(

So, until someone fixes the wrong channel-mapping issue,
we have to depend on an ugly workaround --- compress a 5.1 WAV containing "silent" SL and SR channels. Pros: it works. Cons: the filesize overhead may become huge. :( :( :(

P.S.: On the other hand, the foobar2000 DVD-A plugin identifies the original channel-mask correctly. :D

[Skelsgard]

It just looks like authors of free software never give a damn about user needs. So i've ended up using DTS-MA and partly recompressing videos to make them fit and came to conclusion that free soft is evil. :devil:
Not fair to say that, free software developers don't ask you to give them money for their programs, they just offer it to you. And most of them work in their software precisely to satisfy the needs of the users. for no money. So no benefit for them from the software from which you benefit.
Or what would you say about lame, x264, xvid, aften, eac3to, ffdshow, hc, flac, and thousands of others programs out there that you might be using every day for no cost at all. Even the nero aac encoder is freeware (being Menno one of the developers who provides support for it in this forum).

I could not believe "that", so today I took the time to verify it. Unfortunately, ffdshow too regards 3.1 as 4.0.
Yes, I don't use foobar and sadly ffdshow will default to 4.0, like you said.
The wording in my previous post was wrong. It should read: the DS decoding of MLP won't keep the masking either.

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Not fair to say that, free software developers don't ask you to give them money for their programs, they just offer it to you.
Ok, i've aggravated a bit, no intentional offence was implied there, alright? :)
So no benefit for them from the software from which you benefit.
Don't forget the moral benefit (satisfaction), which may seem not so explicit nor obvious at first, but which :thanks: is always there.
Or what would you say about lame, x264, xvid, aften, eac3to, ffdshow, hc, flac, and thousands of others programs out there that you might be using every day for no cost at all.
Only that these have their cons and pros as well as actually everything human-made. However, when you've paid for soft and weren't satisfied, you're left with your very last option — to whine loudly and to bash them, which isn't the case with free soft. :devil:

[Skelsgard]

It's all cool.
Actually, you can bash at free software developers, if someone posts some program with a "this software is provided AS IS" disclaimer and the thing ends up formatting your HDD every time you click on it, or when someone claims his/her program is the best thing since the invention of the wheel while talking shit about other people's software. Then, it's fair game.
It's just that one can't demand others to fullfil one's every wish when regarding free soft cause you're not paying for the time, effort and knowlegde put into the software.
As you need a FLAC decoder that would properly recognize 3/1 masking, others might complaint that the flac encoder or decoder has to many options and it's difficult to use. You can't please everyone.

[tebasuna51]

You can support my feature request for Flac:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=363478&aid=1949155&group_id=13478

[[)370|\|470!2]

As you need a FLAC decoder that would properly recognize 3/1 masking, others might complaint that the flac encoder or decoder has to many options and it's difficult to use. You can't please everyone.
I think you're slightly wrong there. Proper channel masking supposed to be there by default, and it's not exactly a "feature", more like a neccessity in our case at least, otherwise one should explicitly put that his/her product doesn't really follow the standard, which support of proper channel masking is a part of.

tebasuna51
Omg, your suggestion is there for like... how long?.. Year and a half?! I'd give up hope already. Instead, perhaps we should ask author to mention on his site that multichannel support is a gimmick. :rolleyes:

[Skelsgard]

I was illustrating a point and I guess you've not seen enough people complain about software for having to many settings to configure like, they want easy, not flexible or featureful.
Still, you seem pretty much fixed on considering free software as evil. You should give up on matroska and start using Quicktime Pro with Apple Lossless, it should provide better options for what you need (it accepts 3/1 C-L-R-Cs masking).

[[)370|\|470!2]

That might be a good option, worth a try, thanks for pointing it out. :)

[Midzuki]

Overdue update :)

Regarding MLP and WavPack at least, LAV Audio is working as it should :D Gotta find the time and the will to test TTA though :p

Note: under MPC at least, *LAV Splitter* is not good enough for .wv files --- seeking (is) / (seems to be) broken --- however the filter WavPackDSSplitter.ax has given no troubles to LAV Audio ( so far :devil: ) :)