VBV Underflows in x264 (tested with 1281)

[Blue_MiSfit]

Hey devs,

I've got some VBV bugs to report :(

I'm encoding the trailer for "The Prestige" from Apple's trailer park.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/theprestige/

I downloaded the 1080p version, remuxed to MKV, and downscaled it to 480p, with mattes to display properly at 16x9 AR, like this:


dss2("the_prestige_h1080p.mkv")

degrainmedian

spline36resize(720,360)
addborders(0,60,0,60)


When I encode with x264 rev 1281 using the following settings, I get bad results (lots of underflow errors)


x264 "prestige.avs" --pass 1 --bitrate 1500 --vbv-maxr
ate 2000 --vbv-bufsize 2000 --preset slower --tune film --output NUL --stats ".s
tats" --thread-input
avis [info]: 720x480 @ 23.98 fps (3697 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile Main, level 3.0
x264 [info]: frame I:85 Avg QP:13.38 size: 29383
x264 [info]: frame P:1713 Avg QP:14.78 size: 9001
x264 [info]: frame B:1899 Avg QP:15.54 size: 4841
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 14.6% 32.7% 40.0% 12.7%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 46.4% 0.0% 53.6%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 24.8% 0.0% 0.0% P16..4: 30.8% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0
.0% skip:44.3%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 5.5% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 24.6% 0.0% 0.0% direct:
19.8% skip:50.1% L0:33.3% L1:43.0% BI:23.7%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:97.3% temporal:2.7%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 58.7% 52.5% 34.3% inter: 20.4% 14.6% 1.8%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 49% 20% 18% 13%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 27% 16% 16% 6% 7% 8% 6% 8% 6%
x264 [info]: kb/s:1406.41

encoded 3697 frames, 21.61 fps, 1406.41 kb/s

x264 "prestige.avs" --pass 2 --bitrate 2000 --vbv-maxr
ate 2000 --vbv-bufsize 2000 --preset slower --tune film --output "Prestige_2mbps
_1281.mp4" --stats ".stats" --thread-input
avis [info]: 720x480 @ 23.98 fps (3697 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [warning]: target: 2000.00 kbit/s, expected: 1871.24 kbit/s, avg QP: 16.778
1
x264 [info]: profile High, level 3.1
mp4 [info]: initial delay 417083 (scale 10000000)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 664, -54889 bits)0:03:41
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 665, -76199 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 666, -59479 bits)0:03:41
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1284, -17735 bits)0:03:13
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1296, -59497 bits)0:03:12
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1498, -56224 bits)0:02:57
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1500, -18039 bits)0:02:57
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1501, -2423 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1931, -41900 bits)0:02:20
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2422, -4282 bits) 0:01:39
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2508, -97581 bits)0:01:32
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2509, -152007 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2510, -157895 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2526, -57998 bits)0:01:31
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2527, -98359 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2529, -35239 bits)0:01:31
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2567, -21353 bits)0:01:28
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2568, -75847 bits)0:01:28
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2569, -95687 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2570, -42863 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2572, -37367 bits)0:01:27
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2580, -9171 bits) 0:01:27
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2840, -39213 bits)0:01:07
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2841, -5415 bits) 0:01:07
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 3084, -37863 bits)0:00:48
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 3085, -37119 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 3086, -37743 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 3087, -46279 bits)0:00:48
x264 [info]: frame I:85 Avg QP:13.41 size: 35940
x264 [info]: frame P:1713 Avg QP:13.31 size: 11742
x264 [info]: frame B:1899 Avg QP:14.41 size: 6120
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 14.6% 32.7% 40.0% 12.7%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 33.0% 42.1% 24.9%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 4.5% 10.2% 3.7% P16..4: 17.3% 10.0% 8.3% 0.6% 0
.7% skip:44.8%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.8% 2.5% 1.0% B16..8: 24.7% 2.3% 4.0% direct:
10.1% skip:54.6% L0:36.3% L1:42.3% BI:21.4%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:53.4% inter:33.3%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:82.0% temporal:18.0%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 70.8% 70.1% 63.5% inter: 21.6% 15.7% 6.5%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 57% 18% 11% 13%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 19% 11% 19% 7% 8% 10% 8% 10% 10%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 16% 9% 14% 8% 11% 11% 9% 10% 12%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 74.5% 12.4% 5.9% 2.5% 1.7% 1.3% 1.1% 0.7%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 85.4% 7.4% 3.3% 1.5% 1.0% 0.7% 0.6%
x264 [info]: kb/s:1805.03

encoded 3697 frames, 13.11 fps, 1805.03 kb/s


I know my settings are a little strange, but I frequently re-use a firstpass stats file to encode the same source at multiple bitrates.

I've tried this with an older version, and the results were visually much worse. So, it seems some of the VBV improvements made over the last few months help, but don't eliminate this problem.

I also tried encoding this source in pure CBR, and got the following results:

x264 "prestige.avs" --pass 1 --bitrate 2000 --vbv-maxr
ate 2000 --vbv-bufsize 2000 --preset slower --tune film --output NUL --stats ".s
tats" --thread-input
avis [info]: 720x480 @ 23.98 fps (3697 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile Main, level 3.0
x264 [info]: frame I:85 Avg QP:13.10 size: 30778
x264 [info]: frame P:1713 Avg QP:13.44 size: 10282
x264 [info]: frame B:1899 Avg QP:14.44 size: 5936
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 14.6% 32.7% 40.0% 12.7%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 46.2% 0.0% 53.8%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 25.2% 0.0% 0.0% P16..4: 31.2% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0
.0% skip:43.5%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 5.8% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 25.4% 0.0% 0.0% direct:
21.9% skip:46.8% L0:32.6% L1:42.6% BI:24.7%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:97.1% temporal:2.9%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 61.0% 53.9% 37.5% inter: 23.7% 16.1% 2.8%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 48% 20% 19% 14%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 26% 16% 16% 6% 7% 8% 6% 8% 6%
x264 [info]: kb/s:1634.36

encoded 3697 frames, 27.55 fps, 1634.36 kb/s


x264 "prestige.avs" --pass 2 --bitrate 2000 --vbv-maxr
ate 2000 --vbv-bufsize 2000 --preset slower --tune film --output "prestige_2mbps
_2passCBR.mp4" --stats ".stats" --thread-input
avis [info]: 720x480 @ 23.98 fps (3697 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [warning]: target: 2000.00 kbit/s, expected: 1803.02 kbit/s, avg QP: 16.697
1
x264 [info]: profile High, level 3.1
mp4 [info]: initial delay 417083 (scale 10000000)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 664, -51289 bits)0:03:34
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 665, -117575 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 666, -29375 bits)0:03:34
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1284, -53639 bits)0:03:00
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1498, -52968 bits)0:02:43
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1500, -12767 bits)0:02:43
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1923, -44953 bits)0:02:13
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1924, -36871 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1925, -6119 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1931, -4740 bits) 0:02:12
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2274, -59912 bits)0:01:46
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2508, -142551 bits):01:28
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2509, -149047 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2510, -145367 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2526, -36454 bits)0:01:27
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2527, -96687 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2529, -36887 bits)0:01:27
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2568, -46937 bits)0:01:24
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2569, -84703 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2570, -40687 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2572, -13303 bits)0:01:24
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2839, -160336 bits):01:04
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2840, -37847 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 3087, -20532 bits)0:00:46
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 3107, -1908 bits) 0:00:45
x264 [info]: frame I:85 Avg QP:13.24 size: 36950
x264 [info]: frame P:1713 Avg QP:13.48 size: 11690
x264 [info]: frame B:1899 Avg QP:14.52 size: 5995
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 14.6% 32.7% 40.0% 12.7%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 32.5% 42.0% 25.5%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 4.5% 10.4% 3.7% P16..4: 17.0% 10.0% 8.4% 0.6% 0
.7% skip:44.9%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.8% 2.5% 1.0% B16..8: 25.0% 2.3% 4.1% direct:
9.8% skip:54.4% L0:35.9% L1:42.1% BI:22.0%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:53.9% inter:33.3%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:78.0% temporal:22.0%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 71.2% 70.4% 64.1% inter: 21.4% 15.5% 6.4%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 56% 18% 12% 14%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 19% 11% 19% 7% 8% 10% 8% 10% 10%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 16% 9% 14% 8% 11% 11% 9% 10% 12%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 74.5% 12.4% 5.9% 2.6% 1.7% 1.3% 1.1% 0.7%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 85.5% 7.4% 3.2% 1.5% 1.0% 0.7% 0.6%
x264 [info]: kb/s:1792.46

encoded 3697 frames, 13.53 fps, 1792.46 kb/s


~MiSfit

[Dark Shikari]

I know my settings are a little strange, but I frequently re-use a firstpass stats file to encode the same source at multiple bitrates.Atrocious idea if you care at all about VBV compliance.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Granted.

But I got the same results with a standard 2 pass CBR encode.

~MiSfit

[Dark Shikari]

Granted.

But I got the same results with a standard 2 pass CBR encode.

~MiSfitVBV has known issues with Gabriel's 2-pass algorithm. My 1-pass algorithm works fine, and furthermore, gives better results than 2-pass does (in CBR, at least).

Avoid 2-pass if it's causing you issues.

[ACrowley]

Same Problem here as i said in the other Thread. 2 pass VBR with 40Mbit VBV Maxrate. 1 pass works fine.
But it looks like i get only VBV underflows with the Tune-Grain options. Everything works fine without Tune Grain.
And-Or its caused by the excessive Grain in some Scenes of XMen Origins Wolferine BluRay Source.
I can see that the Bitrate rises "very high" Peakes in those Scenes

CRF 1 Pass Mode works fine on this Source

[Dark Shikari]

Have you tried --slow-firstpass to see if the problems go away?

If so, it's a problem with inaccurate bitrate prediction on the first pass and 2-pass VBV's inability to properly adapt.

[Boolsheet]

Have you tried --slow-firstpass to see if the problems go away?
Oh ok, looks like you found something. I tested the Island trailer again (like we did over here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=108571&page=6)). Without first-slowpass it still gives underflow warnings on the second pass. With slow-firstpass it underflows in the first pass, the second completes without warnings.

[Dark Shikari]

Oh ok, looks like you found something. I tested the Island trailer again (like we did over here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=108571&page=6)). Without first-slowpass it still gives underflow warnings on the second pass. With slow-firstpass it underflows in the first pass, the second completes without warnings.I can't find the link to the original Island source--if you can give me it and your exact settings, I can investigate.

1-pass VBV issues are prioritized over 2-pass.

[Boolsheet]

Sure, both passes used the same:
x264.1281.x64.x264nl.exe -p 1 --bitrate 40000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --slow-firstpass -o NUL TheIsland.avs
x264.1281.x64.x264nl.exe -p 2 --bitrate 40000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --slow-firstpass -o NUL TheIsland.avs

The full trailer is still available on bens SkyDrive (http://cid-bee3c9ac9541c85b.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/The%20Island%20Trailer).
This is the part with the last 419 frames Revgen uploaded: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RM8TF0R0. I'm sure this will underflow too, but I did it over the full trailer.

[Dark Shikari]

How many threads are being used?

[Boolsheet]

It's on auto, so 12.

Here's a Island Trailer mirror: http://shimapan.users.sourceforge.net/island/ .

[Blue_MiSfit]

@DS:

So, to use 1-pass VBV mode, I simply encode only once? No "--pass x" parameter?

~MiSfit

[Dark Shikari]

@DS:

So, to use 1-pass VBV mode, I simply encode only once? No "--pass x" parameter?

~MiSfitYes... encoding in one pass means encoding in one pass...

[Audionut]

Wouldn't omitting --pass imply default --crf, or does -B come into affect?

[ACrowley]

Oh, i get massive VBV Underflows in 1 pass CRF Mode too with this Source!
A 1 pass CRF 18 with VBV 30/40 Mbit. So it looks like CRF 1 pass outputs underflows too!


Source: F:\grain.avs
Output: F:\encode.mkv
Preset: Veryslow
Tuning: Grain
Profile: High
Params: --level 4.1 --deblock -3:-3 --ref 5 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --no-fast-pskip --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --subme 9 --bframes 3

Analayzing source file:
F:\grain.avs: 1920x816, 48000/2002 fps, 1782 frames

Resolution: 1920 x 816
Frame No. : 1782
Frame Rate: 24000/1001

x264 0.77.1281M 39f6499
built by techouse on Oct 8 2009, gcc: 4.4.1 (x86_64.core2.Komisar)
Revision: 1281

Commandline for x264:
"C:\AV Tools\x264 Launcher\pipebuf.exe" "C:\AV Tools\x264 Launcher\avs2yuv.exe" F:\grain.avs -raw - : "C:\AV Tools\x264 Launcher\x264_x64.exe" --preset veryslow --tune grain --crf 18.0 --level 4.1 --deblock -3:-3 --ref 5 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --no-fast-pskip --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --subme 9 --bframes 3 --output F:\encode.mkv --frames 1782 --fps 24000/1001 - 1920x816 : 4

x264 : 1920x816 @ 23.98 fps
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.1
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1340, -695124 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1341, -927371 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1342, -380707 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1343, -690475 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1397, -816346 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1398, -639491 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1399, -530731 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1400, -820275 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1402, -738453 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1403, -654243 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1404, -639259 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1405, -746043 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1406, -836539 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1558, -386799 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1560, -721301 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1561, -119731 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1562, -187819 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1568, -162888 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1569, -533915 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1570, -351307 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1571, -334555 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1576, -590030 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1577, -1248691 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1665, -487289 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1666, -1285987 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1667, -707811 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1668, -1186171 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1670, -1055893 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1671, -426819 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1672, -505371 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1674, -375701 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1682, -607622 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1683, -551795 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1684, -743131 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1685, -343635 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1686, -177467 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1687, -351139 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1688, -802547 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1689, -581627 bits)
F:\grain.avs: 1920x816, 48000/2002 fps, 1782 frames

x264 [info]: frame I:131 Avg QP:19.95 size:174030
x264 [info]: frame P:594 Avg QP:20.31 size:174089
x264 [info]: frame B:1057 Avg QP:20.76 size:155463
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 5.3% 17.9% 30.5% 46.3%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 42.1% 48.5% 9.4%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 17.7% 26.0% 9.0% P16..4: 26.7% 11.6% 6.7% 0.0% 0.0% skip: 2.3%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 9.3% 10.9% 6.1% B16..8: 32.9% 2.8% 2.4% direct:20.1% skip:15.7% L0:35.0% L1:34.2% BI:30.8%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:46.2% inter:37.9%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:99.6% temporal:0.4%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 94.7% 85.5% 76.3% inter: 60.2% 44.5% 21.2%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 7% 4% 48% 42%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 7% 7% 16% 10% 12% 10% 11% 11% 14%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 6% 7% 11% 11% 13% 11% 12% 12% 18%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 62.3% 17.9% 10.5% 5.2% 4.1%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 83.0% 9.8% 4.7% 2.5%
x264 [info]: kb/s:31271.74
encoded 1782 frames, 1.62 fps, 31271.74 kb/s

It depends on the Source with a lot of Grain
This one here was Xmen-Origins Wolferine Blruray, Frame 6957 -8737, the Scenes at the Beginning with excessive Grain.
So its impossible to encode this Source with rev1281 and my desired Settings at the Moment. I will try it without Tune Grain now

EDIT:
No,the same Underflows without Tune-Grain in 1 (CRF) and 2 pass Mode

EDIT2:

[I]No Underflows in 2 pass VBR Mode with --slow-firstpass!

[Dark Shikari]

Oh ok, looks like you found something. I tested the Island trailer again (like we did over here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=108571&page=6)). Without first-slowpass it still gives underflow warnings on the second pass. With slow-firstpass it underflows in the first pass, the second completes without warnings.Cannot replicate. No issues here:for pass in 1 2;do ./x264 i:\island.avs -o NUL --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --bitrate 40000 --pass $pass --slow-firstpass --threads 12;doneUntil someone can give me settings that produce the problem, I certainly can't do anything about it.This one here was Xmen-Origins Wolferine Blruray, Frame 6957 -8737, the Scenes at the Beginning with excessive Grain.I do not own a Blu-ray drive and I am not going to spend $500 just because people won't upload minimal test cases. If you don't upload short samples that I can use to replicate the problem, I am not going to bother trying to fix it.

[Dark Shikari]

Replicated the second pass problem with fast firstpass; it happened just as I expected. Still no luck with the supposed first pass problem.

[ACrowley]

Cannot replicate. No issues here:Until someone can give me settings that produce the problem, I certainly can't do anything about it.I do not own a Blu-ray drive and I am not going to spend $500 just because people won't upload minimal test cases. If you don't upload short samples that I can use to replicate the problem, I am not going to bother trying to fix it.

I will upload a sample

But at the moment i can find the right sample to reproduce the Problem.
Is it possible that the underflow doesnt occur everytime at the same Point ? Strange...

[Dark Shikari]

I will upload a sample

But at the moment i can find the right sample to reproduce the Problem.
Is it possible that the underflow doesnt occur everytime at the same Point ? Strange...Yes. VBV analysis is nondeterministic.

[ACrowley]

Yes. VBV analysis is nondeterministic.

Ah that explains why i cant reproduce VBV underflows at the Moment with the the same Sample+264 cmdline where i had those massive underflows in 1 and 2 pass Mode earlier today

EDIT
Ah....now the underflows are back (1pass crf 18 :)
I will upload the sample

[Dark Shikari]

So, uh, guys, I have some spoilers for you.

These 2-pass issues? Yeah...

... they were caused by yet another bug inadvertently introduced in MB-tree.

We are without a doubt going to be fixing bugs in MB-tree until the end of time.

(Locally committed.)

[Blue_MiSfit]

:) Can't wait to see the results.

~MiSft

[ACrowley]

Here is the Sample from X-Men Origins Wolferine BluRay which contains a lot of grain and produce VBV Underflows in 1 Pass CRF and 2 Pass VBR
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V86HB349

[Dark Shikari]

x264 [info]: frame I:131 Avg QP:19.95 size:174030
x264 [info]: frame P:594 Avg QP:20.31 size:174089
x264 [info]: frame B:1057 Avg QP:20.76 size:155463
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 5.3% 17.9% 30.5% 46.3%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 42.1% 48.5% 9.4%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 17.7% 26.0% 9.0% P16..4: 26.7% 11.6% 6.7% 0.0% 0.0% skip: 2.3%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 9.3% 10.9% 6.1% B16..8: 32.9% 2.8% 2.4% direct:20.1% skip:15.7% L0:35.0% L1:34.2% BI:30.8%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:46.2% inter:37.9%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:99.6% temporal:0.4%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 94.7% 85.5% 76.3% inter: 60.2% 44.5% 21.2%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 7% 4% 48% 42%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 7% 7% 16% 10% 12% 10% 11% 11% 14%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 6% 7% 11% 11% 13% 11% 12% 12% 18%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 62.3% 17.9% 10.5% 5.2% 4.1%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 83.0% 9.8% 4.7% 2.5%
x264 [info]: kb/s:31271.74
encoded 1782 frames, 1.62 fps, 31271.74 kb/sCompletely unable to replicate. In fact, I get completely different results:
$ ./x264 e:\input.avs --threads 12 --preset veryslow --tune grain --crf 18 --level 41 --deblock -3:-3 --ref 5 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --no-fast-pskip --subme 9 --bframes 3 -o test.h264 --frames 1782 --fps 24000/1001
avis [info]: 1920x1080 @ 23.98 fps (2860 frames)
x264 [warning]: DPB size (5 frames, 15667200 bytes) > level limit (4 frames, 12582912 bytes)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.1
x264 [info]: frame I:37 Avg QP:16.92 size:148625
x264 [info]: frame P:703 Avg QP:18.91 size: 91952
x264 [info]: frame B:1042 Avg QP:19.11 size: 61184
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 5.3% 34.4% 32.3% 28.0%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 50.0% 43.7% 6.3%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 8.1% 14.2% 2.1% P16..4: 37.3% 7.3% 6.7% 0.1% 0.1% skip:24.2%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 1.4% 4.3% 0.9% B16..8: 33.9% 1.2% 1.1% direct:15.2% skip:42.0% L0:41.2% L1:40.7% BI:18.1%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:57.9% inter:54.5%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:97.4% temporal:2.6%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 90.9% 77.6% 55.5% inter: 32.4% 30.4% 9.4%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 15% 11% 38% 36%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 7% 11% 12% 10% 12% 10% 12% 11% 15%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 7% 9% 9% 10% 13% 11% 13% 12% 17%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 59.0% 16.8% 11.8% 6.7% 5.7%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 78.1% 11.0% 6.8% 4.0%
x264 [info]: kb/s:14411.99

encoded 1782 frames, 0.56 fps, 14411.99 kb/s

Are you sure your build isn't miscompiled?

(Note that this is with my locally changed copy, so there may be slight changes accordingly, but nothing that would account for such an enormous bitrate difference: is it even the same source?)

[ACrowley]

Youve different Results because the Sample was cutted out roughly from the full M2TS. My encode was based on the full M2TS . Chain was M2TS-DGAVC-AVS with Trims-x264.exe
But the Trims in my encode includes the same grainy Scenes as the Sample has, so i thought the Sample will do the same.
The Trims in the AVs are 1782 frames= trim(6957, 8737)
I cant reproduce it on this Sample too!!
But i still get Underflows on the full M2TS with Trims.

So what should i do ? I dont get the underflows everytime at the same Points so its hard to fine the right frames to make a Sample.

I will run the Sample that you have again with the same cmdline with x264 rev1281 Techhouse

EDIT


D:\>x264.exe sample.avs --preset veryslow --tune grain --crf 18 --level 41 --de
block -3:-3 --ref 5 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --no-fast-pskip --su
bme 9 --bframes 3 -o test.h264 --frames 1782 --fps 24000/1001
avis [info]: 1920x816 @ 23.98 fps (2861 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.1
x264 [info]: frame I:124 Avg QP:17.67 size:115656
x264 [info]: frame P:643 Avg QP:18.51 size: 91338
x264 [info]: frame B:1015 Avg QP:18.79 size: 62508
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 5.3% 26.3% 38.7% 29.7%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 45.9% 49.6% 4.5%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 10.0% 17.8% 3.5% P16..4: 44.6% 11.2% 11.1% 0.2% 0
.1% skip: 1.5%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 2.3% 4.8% 1.8% B16..8: 41.4% 1.9% 1.9% direct:
18.6% skip:27.2% L0:39.7% L1:44.0% BI:16.3%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:54.1% inter:51.6%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:99.5% temporal:0.5%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 94.6% 71.8% 54.7% inter: 44.7% 34.4% 12.5%

x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 7% 6% 45% 41%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 7% 9% 9% 11% 13% 11% 13% 12% 15%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 7% 8% 9% 10% 13% 11% 13% 12% 17%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 56.7% 18.5% 12.4% 6.8% 5.6%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 77.8% 11.6% 6.7% 4.0%
x264 [info]: kb/s:14694.20

encoded 1782 frames, 2.16 fps, 14694.20 kb/s


###
no underflows on the Sample..damn1 I have to cut out exactly the same Frames for a Sample.
Ah, rev1271 gives VBV underflows too! Its not rev1281 related

[Boolsheet]

I have the same problem, it only underflows over the full trailer. I'm able to reproduce it on a 2 CPU system with 3 threads:

x264.1281.x86.x264nl.exe --bitrate 40000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --slow-firstpass -o island.mp4 island.y4m
yuv4mpeg: 1920x1080@24000/1001fps, 0:0
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.1
mp4 [info]: initial delay 1001 (scale 24000)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1923, -140889 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2278, -166483 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2279, -504531 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2280, -645691 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2281, -273523 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2282, -408667 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2283, -264835 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 2284, -138011 bits)
x264 [info]: frame I:164 Avg QP:14.45 size:276560
x264 [info]: frame P:1877 Avg QP:16.69 size:200095
x264 [info]: frame B:378 Avg QP:16.76 size:185598
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 68.2% 27.2% 3.3% 1.2%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 8.5% 70.3% 21.1%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 1.7% 34.0% 5.0% P16..4: 25.7% 19.4% 12.3% 0.0% 0.0% skip: 1.9%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.5% 15.0% 2.8% B16..8: 43.3% 4.4% 6.6% direct: 12.6% skip:14.8% L0:38.2% L1:37.1% BI:24.7%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:81.3% inter:68.5%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 96.2% 93.6% 81.0% inter: 68.1% 64.9% 27.2%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 32% 16% 16% 36%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 11% 12% 34% 6% 7% 6% 8% 6% 10%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 15% 15% 19% 8% 10% 7% 10% 6% 10%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 53.4% 28.0% 18.6%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 75.1% 24.9%
x264 [info]: kb/s:38939.71

encoded 2419 frames, 2.42 fps, 38939.71 kb/s

[ACrowley]

Shouldnt it help when we set the VBV Buffer to 40000 insted of 30000? I mean then theres more Room on those frames (=lot of Grain)where the Bitrate exceed very high Peaks(=over 30Mbit), or am i wrong?

EDIT
No, doesnt help
Also i use the fixed rev 1281 techhouse now, nothing misscompiled

[Boolsheet]

More bits to buffer into is always better, however the whole point of VBV is to apply restrictions. A 40 mbit rate and a 30 mbit buffer may be a bit odd, but depending on the algorithm this should be no problem.
And if Dark Shikari doesn't say "use more VBV friendly rates" I'm assuming the algorithms in x264 can (or shoud be able to) handle it. ;)

[ACrowley]

More bits to buffer into is always better, however the whole point of VBV is to apply restrictions. A 40 mbit rate and a 30 mbit buffer may be a bit odd, but depending on the algorithm this should be no problem.
And if Dark Shikari doesn't say "use more VBV friendly rates" I'm assuming the algorithms in x264 can (or shoud be able to) handle it. ;)

30/40Mbit is BluRay Compliant isnt it?


My Sample above was not correct!
Here is the proper Sample from X-Men Origins Wolferine BluRay with exactly those Frames where x264 produces VBV underflows in 1pass CRF and 2pass VBR
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6IYV2M1V

I run the raw .264 trough dgindex and with a simple avs
AVCSource("F:\Grain Test x264 Underflow\Sample.dga")
Crop(0, 132, -0, -132)

Source: F:\Grain Test x264 Underflow\Sample.avs
Output: F:\Grain Test x264 Underflow\Sample.mkv
Preset: Veryslow
Tuning: Grain
Profile: High
Params: --level 4.1 --deblock -3:-3 --ref 5 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --no-fast-pskip --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --subme 9 --bframes 3

Analayzing source file:
F:\Grain Test x264 Underflow\Sample.avs: 1920x816, 48000/2002 fps, 1767 frames

Resolution: 1920 x 816
Frame No. : 1767
Frame Rate: 24000/1001

x264 0.77.1281M 39f6499
built by techouse on Oct 11 2009, gcc: 4.4.1 (x86_64.core2.Komisar)
Revision: 1281

Commandline for x264:
"C:\AV Tools\x264 Launcher\pipebuf.exe" "C:\AV Tools\x264 Launcher\avs2yuv.exe" "F:\Grain Test x264 Underflow\Sample.avs" -raw - : "C:\AV Tools\x264 Launcher\x264_x64.exe" --preset veryslow --tune grain --crf 18.0 --level 4.1 --deblock -3:-3 --ref 5 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --no-fast-pskip --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --subme 9 --bframes 3 --output "F:\Grain Test x264 Underflow\Sample.mkv" --frames 1767 --fps 24000/1001 - 1920x816 : 4

x264 [info]: 1920x816 @ 23.98 fps
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.1
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1330, -699909 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1331, -684299 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1332, -399723 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1333, -678491 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1334, -267403 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1386, -82957 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1387, -493019 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1388, -490147 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1389, -318243 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1390, -451083 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1391, -672099 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1392, -572163 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1393, -555259 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1394, -791331 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1395, -737563 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1396, -964339 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1543, -641449 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1546, -295720 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1547, -491331 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1548, -403827 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1550, -374277 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1551, -154755 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1552, -195995 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1558, -175440 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1560, -84061 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1567, -885299 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1655, -191489 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1656, -1286027 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1657, -715595 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1658, -900603 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1659, -642627 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1660, -834163 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1661, -408835 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1662, -382923 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1664, -396989 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1670, -560776 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1672, -1304621 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1673, -820283 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1674, -996563 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1675, -575971 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1676, -189195 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1677, -726755 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1678, -829131 bits)
x264 [warning]: VBV underflow (frame 1679, -615563 bits)
F:\Grain Test x264 Underflow\Sample.avs: 1920x816, 48000/2002 fps, 1767 frames

x264 [info]: frame I:131 Avg QP:19.98 size:174618
x264 [info]: frame P:586 Avg QP:20.31 size:175412
x264 [info]: frame B:1050 Avg QP:20.76 size:155792
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 5.2% 17.5% 30.6% 46.7%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 41.9% 48.8% 9.2%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 18.0% 26.1% 9.0% P16..4: 26.5% 11.6% 6.7% 0.0% 0.0% skip: 2.2%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 9.2% 10.7% 6.0% B16..8: 32.8% 2.8% 2.4% direct:21.0% skip:15.1% L0:35.0% L1:34.5% BI:30.5%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:46.1% inter:37.7%
x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:99.9% temporal:0.1%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 94.8% 86.6% 75.6% inter: 60.5% 49.0% 20.9%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 7% 4% 48% 42%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 7% 7% 16% 10% 12% 10% 11% 11% 14%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 6% 7% 11% 11% 13% 11% 12% 12% 18%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 62.2% 18.0% 10.4% 5.2% 4.2%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 83.1% 9.7% 4.7% 2.6%
x264 [info]: kb/s:31397.95
encoded 1767 frames, 1.69 fps, 31397.95 kb/s

[shon3i]

30/40Mbit is BluRay Compliant isnt it?Yes it is, but for safetly you maybe use 30/30 to keep CPB Removal buffer @ 0.9.

[ACrowley]

Yes it is, but for safetly you maybe use 30/30 to keep CPB Removal buffer @ 0.9.

I never had Problems with my Sony BDP S350 @ 30/40Mbit

@Darkshikari
Can you test the new Sample above ?
Im sure you must get Underflows in 1 and 2 pass mode

Thx

[shon3i]

Well you now have. I have issues with overflow/underflow when i change CBP removal to 0.4-0.5 with some streams.

[ACrowley]

Well you now have. I have issues with overflow/underflow when i change CBP removal to 0.4-0.5 with some streams.

X men Origins Wolferine is the one and only BluRay Stream until now which produce those vbv underflows.

All other encodes from same builds (and a bit older)with the same Settings are fine without underflows. But i bet there are a lot of grainy Sources which will make the same Problems with x264 and the same Settings now

[shon3i]

I told you i have same problem with maybe one or max two streams IIRC i have same problem with Final Destination 2 BD which is not grainy. Reducing maxrate helped in my case. Anyway i reproduce same behavior with your stream with CRF. So here is trick stream for x264 developers :)

[ACrowley]

I told you i have same problem with maybe one or max two streams IIRC i have same problem with Final Destination 2 BD which is not grainy. Reducing maxrate helped in my case. Anyway i reproduce same behavior with your stream with CRF. So here is trick stream for x264 developers :)

reducing Maxrate ? I thought the underflows are coming from the Restriction . What helps here is encoding without VBV Max.
but i need VBV Max to stay compliant for SA Players

[shon3i]

reducing Maxrate ?
you have underflow, not owerflow.

[ACrowley]

you have underflow, not owerflow.

ah, sorry..but the same underflow with my Sample ..ok

[Dark Shikari]

you have underflow, not owerflow.You have no idea what you're talking about.

Underflow occurs when the encoder runs out of bits--there are no bits left in the buffer, and it exceeds the max rate.

x264 doesn't warn about overflows.

[ACrowley]

i dont want to harry you DarkShikari....but please can you test this new Sample. Im sure you will get VBV underflows
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6IYV2M1V

[Dark Shikari]

i dont want to harry you DarkShikari....but please can you test this new Sample. Im sure you will get VBV underflows
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6IYV2M1VYou don't need to post everything twice.

[ACrowley]

You don't need to post everything twice.

Sorry

By the Way
I get a Bitrate with a maximum Peak of 92Mbit and 38Mbit Average on my Sample without VBV Max @CRF 18
92Mbit Peak cant be right/good ?
The highest Peak with older Builds was 49 Mbit on the Casino Royal Bluray

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I get a Bitrate with a maximum Peak of 92Mbit and 38Mbit Average on my Sample without VBV Max @CRF 18
92Mbit Peak cant be right/good ?

If you don't use VBV, there is absolutely no restriction on the peak bitrate. So 92 Mbit/s certainly isn't illegitimate.

Also I see no reason why that peak bitrate shouldn't be right/good, if x264 decided that the source needs it...

[Chengbin]

If you don't use VBV, there is absolutely no restriction on the peak bitrate. So 92 Mbit/s certainly isn't illegitimate.

Also I see no reason why that peak bitrate shouldn't be right/good, if x264 decided that the source needs it...

But the thing is the source (Blu-ray) does that scene under 40mbps at a better quality than x264's xxx mbps peak (natural for reencodes)

[ACrowley]

If you don't use VBV, there is absolutely no restriction on the peak bitrate. So 92 Mbit/s certainly isn't illegitimate.

Also I see no reason why that peak bitrate shouldn't be right/good, if x264 decided that the source needs it...

i know...i thought the Bitrate is a little bit broken out because i never saw such a high Peak in 3 years of x264 encoding...in not one single case. Only now with CRF and latest builds

Also the Peak in 2pass VBR Mode is only 34Mbit "without" VBV limit:) So i dont think it could be normal that CRF 18 reaches 92Mbit, looks like a bit strange/broken to me,particularly 2pass VBR doesnt output VBV underflows here !!??

92Mbps Peak should not running smooth on SA Player,and BluRay H264 Disc doesnt need/use 92 Mbit too, only 40Mbit

Im not a coder, so DarkShikari etc should take a look at it, but for sure theres something wrong here

[LoRd_MuldeR]

i know...i thought the Bitrate is a little bit broken out because i never saw such a high Peak in 3 years of x264 encoding...in not one single case. Only now with CRF and latest builds

Still there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, unless the newer build produces visually worse results at the same size (same average bitrate), compared to the older build.

But I'd assume that the newer (MB-Tree-enabled) build gives better quality :D

Also the Peak in 2pass VBR Mode is only 34Mbit :) So i dont think it could be normal that CRF 18 reaches 92Mbit, looks like a bit strange/broken to me ? ?

Did your 2-Pass encode come out at the same average bitrate as your CRF encode ???

If not, you can't compare them!

92Mbps Peak should not running smooth on SA Player,and BluRay H264 Disc doesnt need/use 92 Mbit too, only 40Mbit

That's why x264 offers VBV for exactly that purpose. If you don't use VBV, this implies that the peak bitrate is unrestricted!

You can't encode with unrestricted peak bitrate and then complain about bitrate peaks ;)

I'm not a coder, so DarkShikari etc should take a look at it, but for sure theres something wrong here

So far I see no indication of something being wrong...

[ACrowley]

yeah, but VBV dosnt work here properly :)

AND:
crf 18 output is bigger then the source:rolleyes:

Source 209 MB
encode crf 18 275 MB

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I get a Bitrate with a maximum Peak of 92Mbit and 38Mbit Average on my Sample without VBV Max @CRF 18
yeah, but VBV dosnt work here properly :)

You contradict yourself. How can VBV not work peroperly, if VBV isn't enabled at all ???

AND:
crf 18 output is bigger then the source:rolleyes:

Source 209 MB
encode crf 18 275 MB

So what? If you only lower the CRF value enough, your re-encoded file will be bigger than any lossy compressed source for sure!

Again: Absoultely nothing unusual so far...

[Dark Shikari]

yeah, but VBV dosnt work here properly :)So far, unable to replicate the problem here on your source...crf 18 output is bigger then the source:rolleyes:Well obviously, if you encode at a quality higher than that of the source, the file will get bigger? :rolleyes:

[shon3i]

So far, unable to replicate the problem here on your source...How you don't? Use exatly same settings like ACrowley. I sucessful every time. Did you use DGAVCdec for indexing .264 file or what? Maybe is there problem?

[Dark Shikari]

How you don't? Use exatly same settings like ACrowley. I sucessful every time. Did you use DGAVCdec for indexing .264 file or what? Maybe is there problem?So far. I'm not done encoding the file; I realized that I hadn't put in the crop command to the Avisynth script the first time around, so I'm running the encode again.

Also, I only have two cores, so using 12 threads might not give entirely the same results.

It takes almost 90 minutes to test, so you can't exactly expect me to come up with this stuff instantly...