Which cell type when replace ?

[jinjin_jp]

Which cell type when replace ?

About music DVD, it can't be compress to single layer sometimes, because LPCM audio is big.
So I try convert audio to AC3 from LPCM.
Detail procedure is
1. demux each cell to video and audio(LPCM) and confirm audiodelay by PgcDemux.
2. convert audio to AC3 from LPCM by SUPER.
3. remux each set of video and audio(AC3) to VOB with setting audiodelay by MuxMan.
4. replace each cell from original(LPCM) to remuxed VOB(AC3) by VobBlanker.
5. edit stream attribute of IFO from LPCM to AC3 by PgcEdit.

It was succeeded about the test of small size.

Then I had the question which cell type is better.

a. remain output : 2 (not seamless, STC discontinuity)
***I want to avoid not-seamless if possible, because it causes pause of replay.
b. back to original : 8 (seamless, not STC discontinuity)
***Is it possible? because replaced cell is same as original except for difference of LPCM and AC3.
c. middle of a and b : 10(seamless, STC discontinuity)
***Is it better? because remuxed audiodelay sometimes changes. (for example -219msec to +5msec)

Regards.

[blutach]

If it's a music DVD, then non-seamless probably doesn't matter all that much unless one song leads into another with no pause.

It seems you are muxing each cell independently. Does each cell have an audio delay? If not, then you can mux the lot (that is, all m2vs and all ac3s) together and have a single seamless PGC output. If so, you can change the delay to 0 with Delaycut (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/audiotools.htm) and then mux the lot together seamlessly.

Using your method, however, there would appear to be an STC discontinuity at every cell. So, if you wanted seamless, then 10 would be best.

EDIT: Have you tried converting the ac3 in place using BeSweet/BeLite (http://www.doom9.org/software.htm#audio)? IIRC, it takes VOBs with PCM as input and can output VOBs with AC3.

Regards

[jinjin_jp]

@blutach

Thank very much for the answer.

If it's a music DVD, then non-seamless probably doesn't matter all that much unless one song leads into another with no pause.
I think non-seamless doesn't matter when it is promotion video, but seamless is better when it is concert video.
DVD which I want to convert now is concert video.

It seems you are muxing each cell independently. Does each cell have an audio delay? If not, then you can mux the lot (that is, all m2vs and all ac3s) together and have a single seamless PGC output. If so, you can change the delay to 0 with Delaycut and then mux the lot together seamlessly.
All cells except for first have audio delay from -210 to -270 msec.

Using your method, however, there would appear to be an STC discontinuity at every cell. So, if you wanted seamless, then 10 would be best.
I understand. I'll set cell type to 10.

EDIT: Have you tried converting the ac3 in place using BeSweet/BeLite? IIRC, it takes VOBs with PCM as input and can output VOBs with AC3.
Thanks for the information. I'll try it if possible.
Does it converts PGC(chained cells?) not each cell, and maintain strucure of cell and chapter ?
I processed each cell, because I want to maintain structure as same as original.

"SUPER" can convert VOB(LPCM) to VOB(AC3), too. I tested it , but it has problem, it needs demux and remux with setting audio delay. So I use audio and video files and finally remux to VOB.

Regards.

[r0lZ]

It should be possible to use also DVD-Rebuilder in 3 steps mode and no compression. You will have to modify the project and convert the WAV files manually between step 1 and 2 or step 2 and 3, but Rebuilder should recreate exactly the same DVD structure during step 3.

I have never tried it, so I may be wrong.

[blutach]

@jinjin_jp

BeSweet works on the VOBs themselves, not on PGCs.

Regards

[Wombler]

Interesting idea. I'd never have thought of that!

I have Rammstein's Volkerball here and have always thought it was impossible to compress acceptably even with a full re-encode.

I'll maybe dig it out some time and have a play with this.


Wombler

[jinjin_jp]

Thanks @r0lZ, blutach, Wombler.

I'll report that succeeded about Full-disc.
At first max compression ratio of DVDShrink is 52.1%, its size is 4,656MB and it can't becompressed to single-layer size.
Audio of main movie become 170MB(AC3) from 1,421MB(LPCM) by converting audio.
Then auto compression ratio is 69.3% and it can be .
There seems to be no problem with replaying.
Thanks very much.

Other method,
DVD-Rebuilder seems to be complicated for me about recreating the same DVD structure manually.
I can't try Besweet yet. Is it need to divide VOB for each cell in order to replace and maintain the structure ?

Regards.

[r0lZ]

The point with DVD-Rebuilder is that you don't have to recreate the structure manually. You should only need to convert the audio files it has saved during phase 1, and then edit a file (a muxman project file or its own DVDRB project file, I don't know) to instruct it to use the AC3 files instead of the WAVs. And then, you can continue the DVDRB process normally, and it should recreate the DVD completely. If you have selected "no compression", you can now use it again normally to compress everything, or use Shrink.

[blutach]

DVD-RB does nothing to the audio. It will require properly muxed VOBs to start with.

Regards

[Wombler]

Thanks @r0lZ, blutach, Wombler.


Thanks, but I didn't actually do anything there. :D


Wombler

[r0lZ]

DVD-RB does nothing to the audio. It will require properly muxed VOBs to start with.I know, but in 3 steps mode, you can modify some temp files manually. (That's the point of 3 steps mode imo.) If you change the audio files and the project file, it should continue with the AC3 files. That might be easier to do than to demux and remux all cells manually and to replace them with VobBlanker, and you don't have to worry about the cell flags.

[blutach]

But the audio is never demuxed to the working folder (so there's nothing to change). It is all done on the fly in the rebuild step (3).

Regards

[r0lZ]

Yes? Oh, pity!

[jinjin_jp]

@blutach

I tryed Beseet/Belight.
Its output is AC3 only from VOB with LPCM.
What is wrong?

I downloaded from link of your post and installed.
*BeLight-0.22beta9
*BeSweetv1.5b31

BeLight-0.22beta9 shows that "it doesn't support VOB, use ver.0.21".
So I downloaded and installed BeLight-0.21.

It show that VOBInput.dll is needed, when inputting VOB file.
So I downloaded VOBInput.dll v1.3 and paste in the folder of BeLight.

(And I alse past BeSweet.exe, ac3enc.dll and hip.dll in the folder of Belight from the folder of BeSweet by seeing error of log.)

Then It can process VOB and convert WAV to AC3.
But output is only AC3 but not VOB with AC3.

Regards.

[r0lZ]

You mean that it extracts the WAV stream from the VOB, and converts it to AC3, but id doesn't remux the VOB, right? Seems logical, given that it is an audio converter and not a muxer.

[jinjin_jp]

You mean that it extracts the WAV stream from the VOB, and converts it to AC3, but id doesn't remux the VOB, right? Seems logical, given that it is an audio converter and not a muxer.

I means BeLight/BeSweet can't output VOB(video and audio)?
My question is about post#2.
it takes VOBs with PCM as input and can output VOBs with AC3.

SUPER can output VOB with AC3 from VOB with LPCM.

Regards.

[r0lZ]

SUPER is a video converter. However, I guess it doesn't fix the IFOs according to the new LBA values of the cells in the VOBs. Right?

[jinjin_jp]

@r0lZ,@blutach

Sorry, I can't understand about DVDRebuilder yet.

Rebuilder should recreate exactly the same DVD structure during step 3.
That might be easier to do than to demux and remux all cells manually and to replace them with VobBlanker, and you don't have to worry about the cell flags.
But the audio is never demuxed to the working folder (so there's nothing to change). It is all done on the fly in the rebuild step (3).
Does it mean DVDRebuilder can process step 3, 4 and 5, though can't 1 and 2 of post#1 ?

Regards.

[jinjin_jp]

SUPER is a video converter. However, I guess it doesn't fix the IFOs according to the new LBA values of the cells in the VOBs. Right?

VOB which SUPER output is not reliable.
I created IFOs from its VOB by IfoEdit.
But DVDShrink can't read it. It seems to have something wrong.

So I didn't convert VOB with audio, but audio to AC3 from LPCM by SUPER in step 3.

Regards.

[r0lZ]

DVD-RB has two modes of operation: single click mode (it does the whole processing in one step) and 3 steps mode (it stops after each step). In 3 steps mode, you can change some settings or edit some files before continuing with the next step. My idea was to change the format of the audio streams before the last step. But unfortunately, blutach has explained that it doesn't save the WAV files to disc during step 1. It use the audio streams of the VOBs directly during step 3. So, my idea cannot work. :(

Your manual method is complex and takes a long time, but I think now that it's the best one, if you want to use only free tools. (There are commercial programs, such as Womble, that can re-encode the audio to AC3 on the fly, but Womble recreates a new DVD, with a new menu, so anyway it is not the right tool to process an existing DVD.)

[jinjin_jp]

@r0lZ

Thanks for the answear.
Now I've been trying DVD-Rebuilder, but can't use well. (sometimes it stop by error, sometimes it can't show video and audio from sourse.) I'll give up.


By the way, BeLight/BeSweet seems to be better than SUPER in the point of processing speed, eve if it can't output VOB.
About certain example(test), SUPER needs 140sec, and BeLight/BeSweet needs 2 sec.

I'll use BeLight/BeSweet from next time.

Regards.

[r0lZ]

Thanks for the info. I think also that the audio quality is better with belight, but I'm not sure.

I have also sometimes (but rarely) some problems with DVDRB. It says that the folder does not contains a DVD-Video, for example. But the other programs, such as Shrink, can process the DVD folder without problem. The last time I had that problem, I was doing the Monty Python Flying Circus episodes, and it processed 6 of 7 disks OK, but failed on the seventh. I have never understood why, as all discs have exactly the same structure, they were ripped the same way, and I have removed the ARccOS crap. I had to process the last disc with Shrink.